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Author Topic: Is the "avoid the opposite gender" approach helpful or harmful?  (Read 14398 times)
Ned_Flanders
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« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2012, 09:08:06 am »

Some more thoughts on this question...

If a man and a woman, who in our everday world would otherwise not be attracted to each other, ended up stranded on a deserted island for a year, completely isolated from the rest of civilization, I don't think there is any question sexual activity would occur between them.  Granted, that scenario will likely never happen to most people.  But we do have to deal with each other in an environment full of sexual tension delivered on a plate of fears, misunderstandings and frustrations. 

I think it's important as an adult individual to determine what your boundaries are in dealing with the opposite sex.  I agree that marriage is the best and safest place for sex.  But I never cared for GCx's "guys and girls should remain seperate" rules... perhaps it was the way in which they were practiced.  While I think there was definite wisdom to them, my main problem was they tried to make the rule fit everyone as if it were "one size fits all."  Not to mention that some of those people went so far as to try to make others feel guilty for having normal and natural sexual feelings. 

I think in order to deal with your own sexuality... in order to deal with the opposite gender, you need to be an adult.  GCx did a lot to control young people and tried to tell individuals what their lives should look like.  So, putting a lot of rules in place without a foundation of adulthood to me seems ineffective.
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Linda
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« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2013, 11:33:44 am »

In light of the views of spending time with the opposite sex, one thing that always surprised me were the "missions" trips that happened where married people would go "solo" (most likely due to pragmatic things like costs and taking care of children). Thankfully, we were never tempted to go. I did think it was odd (and wrong) for married people to go on these trips sans spouses since the prep involved a lot of team meetings, team building, and working closely together during the trip, and meetings upon the return.

Why in the world would I want my husband to be spending a significant time bonding with others (including married and single women) and then heading out of the country with them? Really naive of them to do this, in my opinion.

I remember after one of these trips, I was talking to a married friend and a married man who she had traveled with came up and the two began having a conversation about their shared experiences and I thought, "I really don't want my husband bonding with other women in this way."
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wastedyearsthere
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« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2013, 01:25:39 pm »

Has anyone ever noticed how many GCC people have never married compared to the general population?   A lot from the circle of people I have known -- at least 30 I once counted -- now into their 50's.

I don't think it helps the shame messages given especially to men but also to women if they show interest in someone.  At one point, I was told marriage was an idol to me as I know others were as well.  If you wanted to be a friend to the opposite sex you were told that was partiality and reproved. 

And I can't help but think of many messages (John Meyer comes to mind) where he talks to men about how women were their sisters and they should think of them that way.  He said that You wouldn't think of your sister that way. That would squelch any thoughts of dating, sex or marriage!!!!

They know if they control this area -- they can control much more about people's lives.
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Linda
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« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2013, 03:02:59 pm »

Quote from: wastedyearsthere
They know if they control this area -- they can control much more about people's lives.
Exactly.

And about the "women are sisters" talking points, has anyone ever challenged them on that? Taken to the logical moral conclusion, a person should never get married then. Any married person would be committing incest if that's really what they think.

I hope someone at a conference asks this question sometime. I'd love to hear the answer.
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wastedyearsthere
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« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2013, 04:49:10 pm »

Plus it doesn't help that looking for a mate outside the church was never seen as acceptable.  So now I know people still waiting for the right person in their 50's that won't look in another venue....

And those that were matched together for the sake of the gospel that are now divorced. 

Sigh

Glad I saw the light and got out!!

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Ned_Flanders
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« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2013, 07:13:05 pm »

Has anyone ever noticed how many GCC people have never married compared to the general population?   A lot from the circle of people I have known -- at least 30 I once counted -- now into their 50's.

I've long wondered about that, too.  But I would say that I've known many "unsaved" people who either never married or never re-married after divorce.  But the difference with those people is that they are sexually active. 

Shortly before I left GCx, I looked around and it seemed to me like some of those women there at the time had no interest in marriage and sex.  I always remember one guy saying, "If I'm gonna get married, it's not gonna be to anybody around here."  Sure enough, he was right.  That was almost 20 years ago and from what I understand, many of those same women are still unmarried to this day.  Of course, it's their choice and their lives.  But I didn't appreciate guilt trips about wanted to be married.  I love the Lord.  But I wanted to have a woman in my life.  I wanted to experience love and sex.  I'm glad I didn't listen to those people and their stupid ideas about adulthood.
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araignee19
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« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2013, 07:38:12 pm »

And about the "women are sisters" talking points, has anyone ever challenged them on that? Taken to the logical moral conclusion, a person should never get married then. Any married person would be committing incest if that's really what they think.

I hope someone at a conference asks this question sometime. I'd love to hear the answer.

I did. Not at a conference, but with leadership. The basic gist of the answer I got was that something changes when you get married... They are no longer just your "sister," they are your wife. A wife is still a sister in the spiritual sense of the body of Christ, but for some reason the implications disappear beyond that.

Basically, they had no good answer...
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EverAStudent
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« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2013, 08:32:28 pm »

Once again GC leadership's lack of disciplined and formal training in the science of the study of Scriptures allows them to wallow in the error of making an analogy into a concrete.  

In this case the analogy is that Christ is our "brother," other believers are our "sisters" and "brothers," and members of the church become "married" to the church.  When they turn these analogies (or metaphors) into "concretes" they stumble into heretical errors:  leaving the church becomes to them the literal sin of divorce, romantic desire becomes incest, and Jesus becomes our "buddy" and "bro" instead of our Master and our God.  

Analogies and metaphors explore small attributes of a larger relationship, but these symbolic exporations of minutia ought never to become confused with reality or to become the basis for "new" commandments (e.g. new commandments: do not leave the church you have become married to, do not date and fall into incest, you can be informally familiar with Jesus, "hey, Jesus, bro, pal, buddy boy, got something to toss at ya").  
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Innerlight
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« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2013, 07:59:15 am »

Hi Guys (and Gals)....been awhile

Boy does all of this sound familiar.  What a waste.  Never attended a GCC church but have lot's of family members who do.  Here's my standard response, if I had followed their counsel I would have never married my wife of 28 years, had two kids, developed into a loving , serving Christ-centered family, and serve as a Bible teacher.  My wife and I were typical college kids, partying and going to church when home on the weekends.  Hmmmm....I guess God knew better and had a plan for us.  who'd have thunk it. 

If I had ten minutes in front of Faith walkers I would say, "Love and serve the Lord, Love your neighbor (that means all, even the ones you don't like...ya know Liberals, Obama supporters, gays, etc...), think Billy Graham.  Be salt and light in the world, pray, pray and pray daily and watch what happens when God shows up, and finally sit under teachers who are trained in Bible Hermeneutics and know the basics of contextual sudy.
   
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Huldah
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« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2013, 11:07:04 am »

Shortly before I left GCx, I looked around and it seemed to me like some of those women there at the time had no interest in marriage and sex.

And that may well have been the case. Given the loveless, joyless model of arranged marriages described in other threads, it would be understandable. But it's also possible that they had an interest that they were strenuously suppressing. I witnessed several examples of sisters privately expressing interest in marriage (marriage in general, not necessarily an attraction to a particular brother) and being verbally smacked down by another sister (because wanting to be married means you're not content with what the Lord has given you right now). I was also assured by another sister that only brothers ever struggled with lust; the equivalent sin for the sisters was gluttony.  Shocked Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 11:16:18 am by Huldah » Logged
Ned_Flanders
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« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2013, 06:59:17 pm »

And that may well have been the case. Given the loveless, joyless model of arranged marriages described in other threads, it would be understandable. But it's also possible that they had an interest that they were strenuously suppressing. I witnessed several examples of sisters privately expressing interest in marriage (marriage in general, not necessarily an attraction to a particular brother) and being verbally smacked down by another sister (because wanting to be married means you're not content with what the Lord has given you right now). I was also assured by another sister that only brothers ever struggled with lust; the equivalent sin for the sisters was gluttony.
 

Wow, that's ridiculous.  I've seen many times where women lusted after men.  However, the scripture only seems to address men looking at women (i.e., "do not look upon a woman with lust") but I think the commandment can apply to women, too.  

Maybe you can make a case for gluttony.  But I've heard it said where every man's battle is the fight for sexual integrity, every woman's battle is the Battle of Comparison- i.e., comparing herself to other women; her husband to other men, her children to other kids, her house to someone else's house, etc.    

« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 03:14:02 am by Ned_Flanders » Logged
Differentstrokes
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« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2016, 11:38:25 am »

Apparently, it isn't possible to avoid them even at GCx. This was forwarded to me today and I offer it for your amusement/annoyance. text changed to * is by me.

Subject: [*** Women] Showing your Breasts
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:45:02 -0500


Dear *** Women,

Recently I mailed you something from Mary Knox about modesty and I got a few “thank yous” but mostly silence. 

I have to tell you though that I am personally grieved that our church is not a “safe place” for our brothers in Christ and our husbands to come and worship God without the distractions of immodestly dressed women.   I am sobered to see women in the sanctuary on Sunday mornings with very low necklines showing cleavage.  I know it is fashionable right now and if we dressed that way for our husband in the privacy of our homes it would be fine.

 Please!  I beg of you Ladies!  Let’s not show our breasts to the entire church.  It dishonors God!  It causes men to awkwardly shift their eyes or worse…to  SIN right here in the sanctuary on Sunday!  Please, don’t be the cause of their sin- protect them from stumbling.  There is enough pornography available in this country, there are very few God-honoring places.  We come on Sunday mornings to take one small portion of time and turn our attention to God together- to worship as a group.  Can you see what an offense it is to God if we try and steal the attention for ourselves?  This is not the place or the time! 

I “grew up” in the 70’s so I know it makes a woman feel pretty and desirable and even powerful to see someone stumble, blush and get all flustered but I don’t think some women realize the grave seriousness of their offense against the entire church family. 

I have been torn in the past of whether or not to say something to women who are inappropriately dressed.  I assumed that they didn’t care about my opinion and that it would fall on deaf ears but I will not be silent anymore.  Our church needs to be a place set apart and I wll do what I need to do toward that end.  Please join me!  Talk to any sister that is immodestly dressed.  Appeal to her in love- not condemnation and judgement.  Let’s stand up and fight for purity.

For the glory of God!  E***
/////// my summary:

Go directly to burkas, do not pass GO. Do not collect $200 !!




Omg this gave me goosebumps, I remember being told exactly this. I am a busty girl, and I have a fashion sense, so more often than not I was showing a little skin, I never thought it was immodest, but I knew I was pushing the boundaries.... When I question why the men didn't just deal with their own son they said its not my job to correct them, just my job to support them. As a single woman. Not committed to any of these men in any way other than friendship.

I also remember going to worlds of fun with some church friends, I wore a tank top and a sports bra, and a couple other girls wore tshirts with the arms cut off so that it should their sports bras and side skin, and I was told I needed to cover up because I was showing cleavage, but they didn't have to because they were only showing skin, not cleavage. And there weren't even any of our guys with us, they just said they didn't want any other guys looking at me like that... What a fucked up church
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