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Author Topic: Men and Women's nights  (Read 11914 times)
araignee19
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« on: July 16, 2012, 07:06:21 pm »

When I was at GCM, we would sometimes split the Friday night service or LTC meetings into men's and women's meetings. The women would mostly talk about things like being submissive and supportive, dressing modestly, finding our beauty in Christ and not in appearance, waiting for a guy to speak to us, etc. But I always wondered what the men talked about. How creepy was it? What did they hear that the women were excluded from? Did they do things such as pressure the men to find wives? (I heard that suggested at one point, but never knew if it was based in truth or not)
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coolerthanme
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2012, 08:41:07 pm »

I only attended one of those, first, because I normally get along with the opposite sex better, and second, because I am not a typical woman and I find typical women's activities boring.  For instance, it was movie night, so I brought some films I like (The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, Napoleon Dynamite, etc) and everyone else brought boring romantic "chick flicks".  So I left.  Yuck!  lol  That was the first and last time I went to any women-only thing. 

So I didn't even get exposed to that shame based "advice" on the women's side.  I would hope that's not happening, to either men or women, and really, why doesn't anyone stop the convo or switch subjects since they're so good at it when you ask about shunned members?
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FeministRebel
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2012, 08:53:37 pm »

Thank you for sharing! Every stupid woman's night was always chick flicks... ALWAYS. I found it so unhealthy, always obsessing over finding a man, and romance, and whatnot... I was never the typical woman.
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araignee19
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2012, 10:45:04 am »

Ha, I will agree with both of you on that. I hated the women's nights. I have always hated chick flicks, sitting and doing craft nights, making cookies, going out for coffee and an "inspiring" Bible study, etc. I would much rather go hiking, camping, or shooting, or play frisbee, watch an action movie, get into good discussions about controversial topics, etc. But as a leader, I was expected to go, and smile about it, and invite every other woman I knew... Even now after leaving I feel like this with other women's church groups. All they seem to want to do is sit in a circle and drink sugary drinks and talk about how great the passage we are reading is and how wonderful it makes them feel, and agree with everything anyone says, as long as it is "encouraging." Still trying to find a group that is a bit different *sigh*

I am still curious what the guys side looked like though (besides having better activities!)
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2xA Ron
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« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2012, 03:11:48 pm »

Well, I wasn't around very long and there were vastly fewer men's activities than women's activities at Summitview.  The average bulletin listed between 3-5 women's activities and maybe maybe one for men, if you were lucky.  The one I attended was a freakishly early-morning Bible study which focused on developing strong leadership skills, a firm moral code, and devotion to the church.  Women and marriage weren't mentioned, unless it was a passing mention of the need to "be a man" and lead in a relationship.  Once our small group split into men and women's studies for the night.  We talked about the same sort of things, I think, at least until me and another of the class-clowns of the group managed to derail the conversation into talk of tabletop gaming and fantasy novels (sometimes I feel sorry for our leader, we never let him get through an agenda without interruptions for fun and randomness).

It's really odd when you think about it.  As a man in the GC, I don't think I ever heard about love and marriage etc unless it was as part of a mixed-gender group.  Girls were definitely a taboo subject among the guys and you'd think the only part a man played in marriage was as leader (or dictator, depending on the case and your point of view).  It's really weird to think that all the while we men were being taught implicitly that love and relationships were taboo and unmanly subjects, you women were being smothered in them and implicitly taught they were the only womanly pursuits.  That's really a glaring double standard.  A good relationship needs to have two people involved, not one consumed and one detached: only there as breadwinner and director.  On the flip side, women who are completely obsessed with marriage and relationships to the exclusion of other parts of their character are unattractive and boring (and when they get clingy because romance is their entire existence...that would just be scary: I would run).

Good for you three for not being one-dimensional "typical women!"  As a guy, I actually think a girl who likes hiking, shooting, and action movies is pretty hot--certainly more interesting than just cookies, crafts, and chick flicks!  Smiley
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araignee19
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2012, 05:04:35 pm »

"Well, I wasn't around very long and there were vastly fewer men's activities than women's activities at Summitview."

Huh... I never noticed that, but you are right (I was also at Summitview). The only regular, organized men's event I can think of was that early Bible study. I never understood why they did it so early in the first place! There were a few other things such as a winter hiking trip for men.

That is all very interesting. Women were always talking about being content with singleness, preparing ourselves for marriage by growing into the right sort of women, etc... Sometimes I wonder how marriages ever managed to happen... but they sure did!
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2xA Ron
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2012, 10:16:48 pm »

Yeah, did they ever have a bunch of marriages!  Maybe it was reverse psychology, because they sure threw everything but the kitchen sink in between people who liked each other.

I asked why the study was so early.  I got two unrelated answers: to work around schedules (because obviously no one has other plans at o'dark thirty--sleeping excepted), and to prove our manliness/"discipline the flesh"--because apparently real men never sleep and neither did Jesus (see Mark 4:38).  I've learned that basically any time I hear someone trying to talk me into something with an appeal to machismo, they want me to do something incredibly stupid and pointless so they'll feel like less of an idiot for doing it themselves but hope I'm too insecure in my manhood to realize it.  I let myself get talked into a few sessions of it before I realized that being conscious to serve God in my classes the rest of the day was more important than being thought of as a really godly man by a roomful of groggy guys.  I wanted to go to the winter hiking thing, but spent the time at home with my family instead.
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Linda
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« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2012, 06:35:08 am »

Thanks for posting. I appreciate your insight and your humor.
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FeministRebel
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« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2012, 01:32:18 pm »

I think some of us 'girls' [and I use that word loosely, because quite frankly, I was already in my late 20s as many other women in the student group, but the church kept us in this perpetually infantile like status, where they referred to us often as children with adult bodies] were a bit 'against the norm' when it came to the very gender-oriented church activities GCx tried to promote. Some of us engaged in gaming, in paint ball, in capture the flag, in mud wrestling (not like at bars, mind you... but if a good rain storm would come in to town, some of us would put on clothes we didn't care for, and go fight it out in the mud), and even philosophical debates. Some of us went to grad school to pursue, *gasp* literature doctorates, completely unrelated to a faith pursuit. I don't think GCx really ever cared for that kind of thing... and I suspect some of us were labeled as potentially 'rebellious' minds that could taint others, and others were labeled as 'malleable' minds, etc. Minds that would make good wives. Stepford kind of wives.

I just always wanted more things for my life than just marrying someone -- and this is not to say that marrying, and being a housewife are bad things in any respect -- but my worth does not come from these things, and I won't dumb myself down for the sake of a 'godly husband.' (I know that not need be the case, and is in many instances not the case, but it sort of seemed... as something expected of you, at least at my own local version of GCx.) And a lot of the 'girls' always spoke as if this was it -- this was to be the grand thing that was going to give their lives some kind of decisiveness and meaning, and the ultimate 'gift from a god,' or destiny, or whathaveyou... and that one of the reasons to be godly, or get involved as much as possible, was to find a good husband.

And well, that made me very depressed, if you would. It made me not able to relate to those other women... I didn't want to spend my time, all day, daydreaming about a husband. I guess in many respects because I'm one of those people who want to know as much as they can grasp, and ask questions, and push boundaries, and use the brain that supposedly a god gave them, that now they claimed a god said she can't use to be all her potential because she's not a man. Excuse me, but I'm not going to sit around for some man to decide I'm worthy of marriage... and you know, when they all gossip behind each other's backs under the guise of 'advise' to see or ask if this person is worthy or not of marriage potential, that's exactly what happens. You end up obsessing all the time as to whether or not you are 'worthy' to someone... or to even a god for that matter.
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GreenAndGold
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I said I'm PROUD to BE a CSU RAM


« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2012, 01:29:02 pm »

I was definitely a little less of a tomboy and I enjoyed ladies' nights *with my team* because we would hang out and just be real. My leader did encourage us to be real. I also do think that at women's events, the single ladies were told to prepare for marriage and not be as career oriented. That was  Huh to me because I was raised by a single mother and was told that in today's society, women have to have a career to help support a family and also for our own personal fulfillment. I was in grad school in a discipline I enjoyed and nerded out at every single opportunity.  Grin Grin Grin

I think the chick-flicks thing was just a natural consequence of the emphasis on a godly role for women either being: single missionary to someplace far far away like Gladys Aylward or being a wife and a mother.
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megonmiller
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« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2012, 11:38:32 pm »

I definitely think women should look presentable on dates. I don’t find the advice offensive at all.

I am pro-90 rule. I would have saved myself so much trouble by waiting and just letting all the assholes LEAVE. I also think if a woman has sex on the first date, she should be cool with it just being a one night stand and not expect more.
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araignee19
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« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2012, 05:51:00 pm »

I was definitely a little less of a tomboy and I enjoyed ladies' nights *with my team* because we would hang out and just be real. My leader did encourage us to be real.

I have to wonder and ask: If we need to be encouraged to be "real," are we truly being real? I mean, when I truly act like myself, it takes me a long while to open up to others. Once you earn my trust, I will be your friend for life. But I am not comfortable (nor do I believe I should be) sitting in a room of women and opening myself up for the sake of being "real." Maybe that's not what you or your leaders meant when they said to be real, but in my experience the term was used to "encourage" people to open up and share anything and everything because it was good for the cause. I have to say I don't believe this is good for the cause or for the individuals.
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