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February 21, 2019, 05:13:41 am *
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Author Topic: The Marriage Lottery  (Read 53903 times)
AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2007, 11:37:03 am »

Wow, Gretchen, what a testimony. I too had to detox our marriage although we came into GCwhatever already married. The worst advice we received was probably concerning submission and child rearing. We accepted it along with everyone else without questioning. Weird… cause we usually aren’t like that.

Crazy that they would insist on kids following through on their commitments from age 15. Good thing you wanted to anyway!
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nateswinton
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« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2007, 11:37:14 am »

I know I might be setting my kids up for some rough years, but I’ve been turning down offers on parenting advice and book suggestions left and right since Sarah and I found out we were pregnant.

I’m gonna get my advice from prayer and talking to my grandparents outside the movement. I’ve seen some fantastic parenting in our church for sure - don’t get me wrong, but I’ve also seen some that makes me want to cry for the kids.
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Frail
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« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2007, 11:37:36 am »

I was wondering if this “courtship” thing existed in some areas more then others. Is there anyone (ex-GCM or GCM) who doesn’t see this sort of ‘game’ going on?



My experience at an LT (Leadership Training) was that only people from my state held that view. We seemed to hold a very specific ‘courtship’ view based upon one of the leaders experience.



Uhm, can an admin post after me and let me know if I can put what happened (no names) and how that played out in the specific development of my GCM ‘courtship’ experience?
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puff of purple smoke
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« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2007, 11:38:05 am »

Uhm, can an admin post after me and let me know if I can put what happened (no names) and how that played out in the specific development of my GCM ‘courtship’ experience?

Please do! Sharing our experiences is a big part of what this site is about.

The courtship thing was definitely alive and kicking where I was at, and the beliefs in GC about “courtship” go all the way back to the McCotter era.
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2007, 11:38:19 am »

The GCM courtship ideal seems to be big in at least 3 states and possibly more.
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Frail
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« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2007, 11:38:33 am »

Courtship, the story of Generic (no name is too boring, I’m going to put Generic). Generic was at an LT and saw a girl he just knew God was telling him to marry. At the time he really didn’t get to talk to said girl and it turns out, she was engaged. Generic trusted that God would be faithful to His promise and therefore waited on God. LT came and went and Generic went back to his hometown and that girl went back to her home in another state. 3 years (or something) went by and the girl got more involved with the church and less involved with her fiance (they broke up). She ended up moving to a nearby city and they began to hang out. One day while on a walk, Generic told the girl that he thought that God wanted them to get married! She said she thought God had been telling her that as well but only for about a year (or less). They ended up getting married and I think they may have a child.



So everybody in Generic’s state would tell me a story of how God told them that they were going to marry someone in particular. It was weird because I like random stories of how people meet and No GCMer said anything like that unless they were from Generic’s state.



This did play out to its logical conclusion once… One guy (a leader) told a girl that God said they should get married. He prayed about it, talked to all the leaders about it and that was that. The way it plays out in my (creative) mind is that she said that she must have missed the memo. I think she was ‘counseled’ by her leaders but she didn’t change her mind.



The other oddity was this GCM was still small and growing and also it was … uhm, men had statistically better odds on dating then women (large % of the population was women). This made it so that girls had to overlap on who they thought God laid on their hearts if they all followed this rule.
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Reba
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« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2007, 11:38:57 am »

Dear Frail,

I remember the dating talks from the small groups and a few viewpoints of male friendships on dating, courtship, and marriage, and it seems like a nightmare hearing from someone else that those attitudes are still present.

I was interested in a man that held a leadership position in a small group and I feel that the leadership took an interest in me because I told this man that I loved him. He mentioned that to a pastor and it was the beginning of the most overexposure of my life.
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MidnightRider
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« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2007, 11:39:26 am »

I can’t point fingers too much here. One time long ago (even before my GCx days), I asked a girl to marry me because I thought God was telling me to.

She said no. Thank goodness. At the time, it was a double whammy. Besides the broken heart, I began to have a lot of questions about how I could be so sure of what God had told me and turn out to be so wrong. But it started me thinking about a lot of things so in retrospect, I am happy to have suffered through the experience.

It is very common for a young man to do something stupid on account of a girl. But most of us learn from the experience and grow up. We don’t turn it into a method for finding a mate and recommend it to others.
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concerned
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« Reply #48 on: March 17, 2007, 11:39:49 am »

I met a girl in another state while I was going to a GCM church. I was a model GCM’er and yet in my “disciple” meetings with my accountability partner and pastor I was always told to “pray about it” I was never given a list but a suggestion of women in the Church was implied. It was an absolute grievous time as I waited almost a full year, knowing full well that this girl was absolutely the perfect fit for me. I believe God was in it every step of the way. When I finally asked her parents and mine if I could propose the Pastor said no and that I had a problem listening to “wise counsel” in this area. I was distraught to say the least but I believed God had brought us together even though we had not “dated” and I went extended lengths of time without even speaking to her. I am thankful though that God got the Glory and we did get married, even though the Pastor almost reluctantly married us, I was not looked at as a “FAT” guy anymore. We stayed for another year and God lead us away. Now according to most of them we have leprosy and they wont come near us. Funny how your friends are only your friends when you are in their Church. We were told we turned our back on the “family” left where God had us etc. We know none of this is true….. Now I wonder should I tell them of all the stuff we know now? would they listen? I pray that God will get the glory even in that.
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pollyanna
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« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2007, 11:40:26 am »

I find a double standard at my GCM church. One young lady was advised against marrying another christian man in our fellowship the same summer the pastor married another young lady to an athiest. Not just someone from another church but someone who claims there is no God. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills!!!
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pollyanna
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« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2007, 11:40:37 am »

Oh to clarify. In previous post the young couple were advised not to marry because the pastor didn’t feel it was “God’s will”.
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exshep
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« Reply #51 on: March 18, 2007, 07:07:04 pm »

Quote from: "archive"
pollyanna wrote:

Oh to clarify. In previous post the young couple were advised not to marry because the pastor didn’t feel it was “God’s will”.


EEKS!!  This is too close to home to me personally.  It comes up the Jean Liverman in the Montgomery County  [MD] Sentinal.   I have not run up against that experience in over 20 years, but it still chills me.  

I had to force myself through the scenario of what would have happened if I and another sister in GC were married off.  Holidays would have been very interesting given the respective families of origin.   I thank God he headed that off at the pass.  If I want My Big Fat Greek Wedding,  I will rent it from the store or check out of the libary, not own it.
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Had friend in Columbus church 80's and 90s. Member left in 1993  Involved GC in Texas  2005-2007.  Empathy to both  with  positive and negative aspects.
Linda
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« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2007, 02:18:52 pm »

A blog I enjoy reading is the Bayly blog.

I find it refreshing to read from pastors who have not bought into the "Kiss Dating Good-bye" philosophy. Today they offered a post about the subject. Here's a little quote to give you a sense of where they're coming from.

Quote
If a father can't trust his grown daughter’s choices after years of such care, it's as much an indictment of him as of her. What do we reveal of our confidence in our daughters if we must interrogate each man she lingers with in the church parking lot? Where is our faith if we cannot trust her to share a casual cup of coffee with a man at Starbucks? Is this Scripture's picture of father-daughter protection? Or are we perhaps treating our daughters like the women we wish them never to be—weak women incapable of saying no and susceptible to seduction?


I will defend a pastor's right to refuse to marry anyone for Biblical reasons (like someone wants to marry an unbeliever), but the idea that the pastors get to be matchmakers or matchbreakers and have more say than the couple and their parents as to who or if or when a person should marry is from the pit of hell. This is not courtship by any definition, anyway. This is manipulation.
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nateswinton
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« Reply #53 on: December 17, 2007, 05:08:54 am »

Linda, that quote you posted was so well-written, it gave me goose-bumps.  What an eloquent summary of my own personal feelings!  What are we teaching our daughters?!  What are we teaching our sisters?!  In GC*, it's learned helplessness.
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Genevieve
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« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2007, 06:39:56 pm »

Does anyone know how these decisions are made? Do they have certain criteria? I just don't understand how a leader could honestly believe he has the insight to "discern" that two generally kind and loving people don't belong together?
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MidnightRider
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« Reply #55 on: December 19, 2007, 12:10:24 pm »

The criterion is whether the couple will be more productive together than apart in terms of evangelism, bringing in new members, supporting church activities, etc.
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Genevieve
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« Reply #56 on: December 19, 2007, 08:57:09 pm »

Oh, so they look at their "gifts" and decide whether they can make each other more productive? Wow, it certainly takes a lot of ego and callousness to evaluate relationships like that.

Glad I did it the old fashioned way. People thought we should spend the summer apart while at least ONE of us went to LT. We thought about it and then decided to just get married instead.  :wink: Best decision I ever made.
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MidnightRider
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« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2007, 09:53:27 am »

Quote from: "Genevieve"
Oh, so they look at their "gifts" and decide whether they can make each other more productive?

Not exactly. They decided whether the couple would make the _church_ more productive.

"Loving each other" and "having a lot in common" were considered shallow reasons to get married, in the opinion of at least one elder I knew. And I am fairly sure he did not think of that himself.

Quote from: "Genevieve"
Wow, it certainly takes a lot of ego and callousness to evaluate relationships like that.

No argument here. I recall one couple that was told not to get married. They left the church and married anyway.
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2007, 02:49:07 pm »

It is this area that is the GC area that is the hardest for me to deal with.  How can GC leaders think that making that decision for someone is acceptable?  We have but one fleeting chance on this earth to create a life that is both pleasing to God and satisfying to ourselves.  A marriage is finding your life companion, the love of your life, the one person who will stand by your side during EVERY major event of your life, the other parent of your CHILDREN, and the one person who will be standing by your coffin mourning your loss and keeping your memory alive forever.  Marriage is so spiritual and holy and sacred that angels can't even understand it fully!  To take such a holy union and intrude on that and to make it so utilitarian is to me one of the most egregious things GC does.

I am so thankful I met my husband before I went to GC.  I am so thankful we left before they started influencing my children in this area.  I am so thankful that I was allowed to marry my choice.
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nateswinton
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« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2007, 02:54:06 pm »

Quote
I am so thankful I met my husband before I went to GC. I am so thankful we left before they started influencing my children in this area. I am so thankful that I was allowed to marry my choice.


I completely agree with this statement (only for my wife).  We got married against all counsel - and I'm glad we did, because she's the one that stuck through things with me when it got ugly.  Not the pastors that preach loyalty.  She kept her vows.
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