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Author Topic: the spoils of the chosen few  (Read 16746 times)
damaged_goods
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« on: January 08, 2008, 01:47:43 am »

i entered the east lansing fellowship in the late 1970s which at the time was called 'msu bible study'...and at that time, i had a girlfriend, strictly forbidden by the powers that be...

over the next few weeks and months, a concerted effort was made to separate us and to re-educate us on God's plan for our lives...needless to say, the relationship ended...

but what i found most objectionable was that within this same period, my former girlfriend was spending inordinate amounts of time with a married 'older brother'...that, of course, was 'ok'...during general meetings, i noticed his hands were on her constantly and that she began to dress like and act like his wife, caring for their children with this guy's wife...

he always seemed to have some task for her that would keep her from socializing with anyone else...there were a few times when i attempted to to say 'hello' to her but he was always near her - close enough to block me from making contact...

one day she simply disappeared and no one would say where she had gone, only that she was wrestling with the devil...i called her mother's home and found her, by now a basket case...nothing was ever said about what happened...

she is now 50 years old, coming off her 3rd divorce, and living with her 80 year old mother...

these people destroy lives...i'm glad this forum exists, but it appears that they have infiltrated even our rights to disagree with them...
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2008, 07:02:21 am »

I've often wondered how many couples there are like the two of you, who probably would have gotten married if it hadn't been for GC.  I hope that GC wakes up to the damage they are doing and the joy they are robbing from people.

I hope that you are recovering and experiencing God's peace.  I know it's possible even after what you went through.
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lone gone
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2008, 02:31:40 pm »

I am 50 years old and on  my third marriage... and I think it didn't have a single thing to do with GCI.

People are damaged by the world, the flesh and the devil.... not just by bad leadership.
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damaged_goods
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2008, 03:33:22 pm »

<<<<I am 50 years old and on my third marriage... and I think it didn't have a single thing to do with GCI.>>>>>

Since you were responding to my comment, I assume you are drawing some sort of comparision. I find that laughable in that you have no idea of my situation nor of the woman to whom I referred. Can we agree that your situation is unique and that you have as much right to assess your issues as I (and the woman in question) have to assess ours?

<<<<People are damaged by the world, the flesh and the devil.... not just by bad leadership.>>>>

Very true, and all three were alive and well in the leadership in East Lansing.

I've gone back and read your past posts. You seem to have a penchant for pontificating before having all the facts. For all your knowledge or lack thereof, arrogance runs thick in your postings.

Please feel free to ignore my future postings and I'll reciprocate. I've had my fill of people like you in my life.
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lone gone
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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2008, 04:14:34 pm »

I am sorry if you don't like the way I responded.You also do not know what I know about life and seem to be quite defensive.  

Your ex-girlfriend and her married male friend exhibited a common behavior
in which they engaged in an "emotional affair". Having studied it quite a bit I can spot them very readily.  Whether there was sex or not does not matter.

It is behavior that is not limited to TV preachers, cult leaders, prominent politicians,or anyone in particular.  Emotional affairs happen across the board.

That is why I said it had nothing to do with GCI.

My style of writing may sound stuffy to you but people who know me personally don't think I am that way.
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damaged_goods
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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2008, 07:50:43 pm »

<<<<<I am sorry if you don't like the way I responded.You also do not know what I know about life and seem to be quite defensive.>>>>>

LOL

You seem to make a hobby out of telling others all that you 'know' about life. I've asked you once and I'll ask again - please spare me your self-absorbed pontifications.

And what you mistake for defensiveness, I view as a simple response to a heavy handed egotist trying to foist his unsolicited opinion through some self-absorbed, noncontextual theological mumbo jumbo which he uses to feed an apparently insatiable need to be right in the eyes of others. I suspect you have been allowed to trample unfettered over the thoughts and opinions of others. If so, that ends here. Maybe a tough pill to swallow.

<<<<<Your ex-girlfriend and her married male friend exhibited a common behavior in which they engaged in an "emotional affair". Having studied it quite a bit I can spot them very readily. Whether there was sex or not does not matter. >>>>>

Are you serious?Huh You are taking it upon yourself to diagnose a situation, based on the brief description that I offered?Huh Perhaps you are speaking from personal experience and, if so, that is your burden to carry. But do not presume to take it upon yourself to impress your failings on other people. Once again, you do not have more than a clue of the situation in question, because I did not give you all the facts.

This board is not about just you and it is not about just me. And I am going to ask you once again to drop this and to ignore my posts if you feel so compelled to issue your thoughtless and ignorant opinions. But if you insist on continuing, I will certainly accommodate you insofar as the moderators allow.

I cannot believe how many so called Christians in this world seem to need to push themselves into the lives of others with the express intent of imposing their own opinions. This was one of the fundamental flaws of the pre-GCA ministries and it apparently has laid root in the lives of some of their devotees.
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theresearchpersona
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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2008, 09:40:11 pm »

So sorry about that sir. I really wish it didn't turn out that way.
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lone gone
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« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2008, 01:36:08 pm »

I am not Sam Lopez.
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damaged_goods
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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2008, 01:47:44 pm »

I have no doubt that Sam will be glad to hear that.
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MidnightRider
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« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2008, 01:19:44 pm »

damaged,

How about you? How did you recover from this?
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damaged_goods
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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2008, 11:32:04 pm »

I suppose 'recovering' is a more accurate word to describe me.

Some say that an individual's personality, character, and behavior is all but set by the age of five, and that changes to this, though possible, are often very difficult.

I contend that the same holds true with a new Christian. That to which he/she is first and most vorciferously exposed is what takes root. I'll not go into details here, for there is at least one person who enjoys taking potshots at those who express themselves in ways in which he does not agree. And frankly, I haven't the time or inclination to joust with him and to give him a forum for his egotistical motivations.

But I will say this. Any group that insists on isolating their members from family, friends, and (as you might refer to it) orthodox knowledge of other reputable authors and believers  - such a group has an agenda that is not biblical. The modis operandi within the pre-GCA ministry that I knew was very reminiscent of Animal Farm and Lord of the Flies. They changed the rules to accommodate their own selfish purposes and they ruled like petty dictators who act on whim and without mercy.

I have seen nothing to indicate to me that this has changed in the last 30 years, despite Bovenmyer's assertion to the contrary. And their philosophy that 'the ends justifies the means' leads me to believe that some have infiltrated this board with the goal of trying to assuage the damage that they have done to hoards of believers by redirecting their own guilt back to those they have hurt.
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jehu
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« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2008, 12:02:05 am »

Quote from: "damaged_goods"
Some say that an individual's personality, character, and behavior is all but set by the age of five, and that changes to this, though possible, are often very difficult.


It's been established in a study of the International Church of Christ that even a Bible based organization with shepherding practices can cause a convergence of personality to the same Meyers-Briggs type. Aren't GC leaders classically ENTJ?
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MidnightRider
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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2008, 07:03:06 pm »

Quote from: "jehu"
It's been established in a study of the International Church of Christ that even a Bible based organization with shepherding practices can cause a convergence of personality to the same Meyers-Briggs type. Aren't GC leaders classically ENTJ?

Do you really think the personalities changed? Or were the people just intimidated into giving the "right" answers?

When I learned that the whole GCx method was developed by Jim McCotter when he was barely an adult, that explained a lot.
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2008, 09:51:11 pm »

That is REALLY interesting!  Jehu, where did you hear about that?  How did you know how many people were ENTJ.  I really agree that people changed their personalities to be more like the "ideal."  Even the male leaders talk like each other and the women act like each other.  I never thought about personality tests though!
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damaged_goods
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« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2008, 09:57:44 pm »

To be very honest, I do not think anything coming from the International Church of Christ is established. Any denomination or belief that demands water immersion to be saved (as they do) is apostatic and cultish. Deny it as they will, it's a works based salvation they believe.

Aside from this, there are a great many beliefs held by the ICOC that do not jive with accepted Christian thought that has prevailed over the last 2000 years. My limited contact with ICOC members has led me to believe they are theologically weak, but high on emotion.

With regard to the brothers and sisters in the GCA, I do recall vividly a sort of cookie cutter mentality in which younger Christians were encouraged to develop the personality traits of older Christians within the fellowship. Scary how controlling they were,right down to micromanaging our lives.

Now something I will add here. Someone contacted me through private email about concern over the current GCA leadership in his church and how they were placing inordinate demands on his schedule. This person did not leave a name and spoke in such vague allusions that I am suspicious of who he is.

But I will say this to you, assuming your best intention. Isolation has always been the GCA's best friend. They get you alone and they distance you from objective thought. The next thing you know, they are controlling your time and finances, as well as the content of your life. And they lay a guilt trip on you if you fail to obey in the least of their directions.

You asked my advice and I shall give it. Leave the GCA. If you are tied to their theology (as am I), Southern Baptists, Evangelical Free, and Plymouth Brethren are also dispensational premillenialists. And their hermeneutical foundations are much stronger. Moody Church and Bible Institute are also right on target, though with a bit more rigidity.

Just my opinion, but you asked. <smile>
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Angry
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« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2008, 08:28:57 am »

Amen, damaged_goods, Amen.
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