"FaithwalkaZ"

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[AgathaL'Orange]

Just wanted to let you know... It's Faithwalkers time again, folks!

I just started listening to the online audio of a message entitled, "Loyal for Life."


Will it be about being loyal to God, loyal to the church, loyal to GC, or loyalty to something else...

Want to take bets?  My bet is it's about loyalty to GC.  I'll keep you posted!

[puff of purple smoke]

Well here's the description of the talk from the Faithwalkers 2007 website (link):

Loyal for Life - Kurt Jurgensmeier
Can you imagine serving Christ for the rest of your life with the same people who came to Faithwalkers with you? American Christianity is plagued with "church hopping" and those doing it are often paying a heavy price. After 22 years of serving God with several people I originally met in college, I would like to share with you, from both biblical examples of "ministry teams," and my personal testimony, the tremendous blessings (and some challenges!) of being loyal to your church family for life.

[Jason Stauffacher]

Let me say it plainly as possible: Faithwalkers is a sheparding movement, to recruit ideal candidates for life-long service to GCM and then to maybe Jesus, but first and foremost, it is a sheparding movement.

It will always be what it is: a sheparding movement for the young.

Merry Christmas, and here's a quote from Wiki, Tom Short's page.  Just look up Tom Short on Wiki.....

from Wiki:  

According to the Towerlight, Short had established New Life in 1982.[15] In 1986, Short became involved in a "shouting match", where Republicans, Democrats, and the local chapter of the (pre-Scientology) Cult Awareness Network united against an apparent attempt by Great Commission International to strategically enter the political arena. At a Montgomery County bi-partisan press conference, Tom Short responded by saying he believed his church had been unfairly "labeled as a cult by innuendo..."[16] CAN had classified GCI as a shepherding cult based on criteria including procedures, use of mind control and thought-stopping techniques, and the degree of member consent; they said that "Great Commission discouraged its members from listening to outside criticism... [and members were] being manipulated into a deepening commitment to the church and of turning control of their lives over to church leaders ..." [17]

[AgathaL'Orange]

My plan is to listen to at least a few of the Faithwalkers East and West messages and compare them...  It seems as though they were given the framework for the conferences which may have been identical, and then the speakers chose how to meet the framework.  I am interested in whether or not there is a difference in how "radical" or "off" the groups are...  Is west worse than east or vice versa?  Is there a difference at all?

My gut feeling was initially before many of you "Easters" posted that West would be worse than East, but now I am not so sure.  Anyway, that will probably take awhile... it's not like I have OTHER STUFF to do or anything... Ha ha... I am actually swamped!

[AgathaL'Orange]

Anybody know when or if there will be Faithwalkers 2008 audio available?  I've been checking the site but there is nothing.  Hopefully they will get it uploaded soon.  A little bird pointed me in the direction of Rick and Neva's talk.  Sounds interesting.

[AgathaL'Orange]

Warning this could cause some floating/flashback moments.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/faithwalkers-2008-promo/20790901/?icid=VIDLRVHOV08

For some reason this video really scared me.  It really, really scared me.  Is this just me?  I can't describe it, but I'll try.  It seems very dark, and cult like.  The people seem to be over acting or out of control (the worship scenes) and in a very impressionable state.     Is it just me?

I showed it to my husband and he said it's very ghost ish... It's sort of a combination of the Ghost Whisperer and the Blair Witch Project with all the random unsmiling people walking out of the forest alone.  Still freaking me out.

[miserere]

What is that indescribible something that seems to link all GCX media?
Have you ever noticed that the fonts and type-set, color choices of GCX seem to have something erily in common.
Maybe, if you have detected it, you could enighten me.  Back in the day I though it was just the printing preferences of my local church. (lots of gray in the ink and paper stock)
Seems to be a part of the GC culture though.  Even the mast-head of GC Warning has the "appearence."

[boboso]

The promo looks very professional and could be inspiring to someone who didn't know what GC was about.

To me, it was sickening.

"Yeah, commit your life, to be under our thumb. If you are lucky, one of us "leaders" will pick you into leadership training where you can eventually open your own franchise. Doesn't matter if you have a deep relationship with God, it just matters how pleasant you look and how likable you are -- and how much GC kool aid are you willing to swallow. We'll let you know what the Holy Spirit has to say as you couldn't possibly have the same access."

Seriously speaking, what kind of judgment will these "leaders" receive as they pass out boulders on necks? I don't envy any teacher, but a self-appointed "leader" that demands unity to the movement (and their respective franchise)?

What if: you put aside your selfish ways and followed Jesus Christ? What if: you committed yourself to serving and loving the least of your brethren? What if: you searched for God daily with all of your heart? What if: you trusted God instead of man to lead you into eternity? What if: you read the Bible yourself and learned from others you personally know have consistently walked with God for years?

What if: God was bigger than any man-made movement or institutional church?

[Linda]

I read the blurb about the talk Agatha mentioned that a little birdie told her about. It says:

Come hear why Rick and Neva will never quit on you, or this movement, and how you too can stand beside your brothers and sisters - for life!

I think this must be a typo. What they meant to say was, GC leaders will never quit on you, unless you quit attending one of their churches.

Also, to anyone outside "this movement" the commitment to "this movement" for life is a BIG RED FLAG. I don't see how anyone can read that and not see the wrongness of it.

[AgathaL'Orange]

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/faithwalkers-testimonies/1177455858/?icid=VIDURVHOV01

This video features GC's second favorite verse (after the Great Commission).

[Ahrb627]

Gag -- this brings back the memories

This was the verse they used over 20 years ago to get me to stay with the church and leave my home and family.  They are more blatant than I have ever seen them back then in committing to GCC.  They used to say that they were the only ones doing God's Will -- the only church doing it right.  How is this based on scripture?  To stay with GCC for life?  Talk about Red Flags.  This is HUGE.

[Linda]

Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”

Unbelievable.

PARENTS, TAKE NOTE! Your kids come home from college for Christmas after being away for several months. They have a couple days at home with the fam and immediately after Christmas they go off to a Christian conference. You think this is great and are happy that your child wants to spend "off" time getting closer to God.

In reality, your child is at a conference where he/she is being asked to commit for life to a movement of men started around 1970 by a self-appointed apostle who mysteriously uncommitted from the movement in the mid-80's, but is still revered by the leaders. All the leaders of this movement were appointed by him or have been appointed by people who were appointed by him.

In addition, according to this video, your student may be asked to move out of your house by the elders and into some housing determined by the group. This move is being presented as a sacrifice a la Mark 10.

What this student said is highly disturbing. I know many long term foreign missionaries who cling to this verse. This verse is not about loyalty to a movement and leaving parents for a movement of men. That poor kid has no idea what he is saying and doing.

[lone gone]

I am in the "media" biz and am acquainted with the current video and still photography "buzz".  This is a slick production using all the latest cliche'd imaging techniques. Hand held camera, scratchy cross processed treatments, lots of blank faces staring at the camera that can be interpreted as "focused", "apathetic", "bored", or "searching".  It used Running, jumping,leaning,standing tall, and other non-verbal communications to convey a message. The words on the sign boards re-iterate the faded scripts. The scene flashes of worship are juxtaposed with the serious faces. The worship looked like a mob scene with raised fists and imploring hands.

My favorite snatch of a scene was when the guy threw the sign away. It looked like he was sick and tired of trying to do something so artificial.

It also ran way too long to be effective. The message was too weak and to vague to carry that much baggage without something more descriptive. All it led up to was  "Faithwalkers 2009" which might have been a two hour service or else a rock concert.

Once you know what to look for, you can see right through it.

  

[Linda]

By the way, in thinking about Mark 10, my husband reminded me of what Jesus said in Mark 7.

And he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!  For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’  But you say, ‘If a man tells his father or his mother, “Whatever you would have gained from me is Corban”’ (that is, given to God)—then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother, thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

[puff of purple smoke]

What is that indescribible something that seems to link all GCX media?
Have you ever noticed that the fonts and type-set, color choices of GCX seem to have something erily in common.

That's true, and it's very interesting. There must be a marketing company they contract to that has a certain style that does the artwork for most of GC's projects, because many of them look like they were done by the same people/person.

From the second video:

"You're not going to lose anything by going ... the only thing you can do is gain ... you gain knowledge, you gain, um, some really good friends"

Sure...

[lone gone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfPhKjKKDeY


Is this the same as the others?  PTG Studios produced it.

[Linda]

I just noticed that the notes from the Rick Whitney talk on Commitment to Your Local Church for the Rest of Your Life are up on his web page (gcnwdads dot com).

It looks like the talk is a conglomeration of a lot of the things he has written and spoken over the years on the subject. Same quotes (like the Wooden one), same old, same old...

I really can't believe someone would repeatedly say this:

If someone is going to “Cross over” in their heart and join us, these are the steps. In your local church, in your region, in your movement. 
This is how we show commitment:
1.  We show up.  And we keep showing up.
2.  We begin to process and understand what our core beliefs are.
3.  We hold to our beliefs, and begin to speak up for them. We “own” our church’s vision.
4.  We “roll up their sleeves” and get involved in serving.
5.  We begin to be faithful in sharing our time, our money, our home and resources - in our shared vision, our common cause.
6.  And we say, “This is my family and I will fight for it.”

Why would anyone think it Biblical to tell people to "cross over" in their heart and join a "movement"? This is frightening and to students and the parents who think their children just went to a conference to build their faith should be a big red flag.

Your commitment to your local church will be tested through your relationships with other believers, with your leaders and with your pastors. If we are going to be involved in our local church, “Lock, stock and barrel”, then we are going to be involved with that church’s leadership, pastors, deacons, small group leaders.  And we are going to have to decide if we will submit to them.  You and I have to decide whether we believe that God will honor our submission to our spiritual leaders?

Suggesting loyalty to a small group of believers IS division.
And, submission to leaders. Define it. Do they mean that Christians should obey their leaders in matters of holiness and sound doctrine? Then by all means, obey your leaders.

Or, does it mean that Christians are to assume that anyone with the label "elder" or "pastor" is someone who should be unconditionally obeyed in personal matters (where to live, or work, or who to marry)--that your local pastor IS a mediator between men and God. If that's what they are saying then I shout from the rooftops, "RUN AWAY FAST."

And what is this all about:

A side point.  A heart of commitment and loyalty to your fellow believers is something that only adults can offer God. Children offer their commitment and loyalty to their parents.  A 16 year old needs to follow their parents.  And rightly so.    
   But a 20 year old is asked by God to commit to Him first.  It’s not a throwaway verse when our Lord said, “He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me.” – Matthew 10:37
   Listen to me Christian. I love God. But I can get between God and my children. Even with the best of intentions. I can hinder my son’s, or my daughter’s own commitment to their Savior. I can get in the way.
   I can easily be interference between them and God.  Sometimes, with the best of intentions, even Christian parent’s can be afraid for our kids, and keep them from really standing on their own.

I'm glad to see that they are no longer asking minor children to commit to GC for life while their parents are two states away, but, tell me, someone, please why it is okay for a GC pastor to get between a student and God, but not a parent?

This frightens and saddens me. We still have friends in GC leadership. Wonderful, Christian people and families who are being deceived and deceiving others by this heresy that they were taught in their early years of being a Christian.

And, tell me, what kind of loyalty is displayed by a comment like this:

I am tired of men who declare their loyalty to God, but not to other men. Our Lord desires brotherhood. I won’t walk with men who are not loyal.  They lack courage.  I don’t have time.


What he is saying her is, "Loyalty matters, and I will only be loyal to those who are loyal to GC. I don't have time for those who aren't loyal to GC." This is NOT loyalty, this is conditional friendship and sectarianism.

And, the part about "polygamous" Christians. THERE IS ONLY ONE CHURCH. ONE. Commitment to the Christians that God has put in your lives in your family, your neighborhood, your local church, wherever, is what it means to love one another. There is only one bride and the polygamy argument is not sound teaching.

And, then, the part about those who commit to the local church being "mindless followers" with the implication that GC is a cult, well, if they keep talking like this, they will get right back on those cult watch lists.

Please, someone in leadership in the movement, stand up and say something really soon. You are a leader and you have to give an account. Hebrews 13: 17, remember. You will be called disloyal, you might lose your job, your might be called a slanderer, but who are you trying to please, God, or men?

[An ex-GCM pastor]

That's true, and it's very interesting. There must be a marketing company they contract to that has a certain style that does the artwork for most of GC's projects, because many of them look like they were done by the same people/person.

I know for a fact Brent Knox (and Mark Darling) used a professional PR firm based in Minneapolis called Padilla Speer Bersdsley to market Evergreen as an up-and-coming church when if fact it was only housed by 50 members.  Tom Jollie was a VP there, and a member of ECC at the time.  http://www.psbpr.com/page/Tom-Jollie.jsp  Tom Jollie did most the work.  It was a PR strategy.  I got a letter about Mark Darling and ECC in my files.  ECC was basically a Mark Darling PR church-plant, not what the Holy Spirit called "a blest house."

ECC and GCx is a marketing church.

-Ex

[AgathaL'Orange]

blah blah blah
loyalty
blah blah blah
band of brothers
blah blah blah
plant your flag
blah blah blah blah
die here
blah blah
leave your parents
blah blah blah
join us
 

join us forever.

[gofindanewchurch]

wow, if all you guys hate gcm, gcac, egcc so much, why don't you move on?  I've never seen so much obsessing and focus on a place you don't attend.  You sound like you are more excited about faithwalkers then the students, you can't wait for them to post the messages so you can rip them apart.  you accuse this org of being so corrupt, but you remind me of the little gossiping group of old ladies that tear apart the church.  Is this really how you want your faith to be perceived?  If this org didn't do it for you, fine, move on.  But you continue to let it control you by obsessing over it.  They might not be right, but neither is your response.