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Author Topic: A GREAT WOUNDING of God’s People in GCx Churches  (Read 13497 times)
Vince Capobianco
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« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2021, 01:09:40 pm »

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« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2021, 02:09:21 pm »

Janet, the woman you described (the one who works two jobs) sounds like such a dear example of a Christian. May God richly bless her in every way.

Strangely enough, it was at Solid Rock that I first heard an elder say that the greatest believer in heaven may be "some little old cleaning lady that no one's ever heard of." When I think about believers in the third world, facing poverty and persecution, our celebrity pastors here in the west seem so insignificant in comparison. Not that there aren't some wonderful pastors and teachers who've gained a popular following. I'm very glad that we have such easy access to good teachers here in the west, but still, I'm sure that many who will be great in the Kingdom will be people who never achieved fame in this life, and whose earthly lives have been long since forgotten by the world.
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« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2021, 08:20:13 pm »


“I'm sure that many who will be great in the Kingdom will be people who never achieved fame in this life, and whose earthly lives have been long since forgotten by the world.”
-Huldah


Yes, Huldah, I agree. People sure do look at the outward things, but only God can really see their heart. Though many elders of GCx covered for each other in matters that would have ordinarily demanded correction, rebuke or discipline; by claiming to know the “right” heart of their fellow elder, that is not biblically true. They also presumed negative judgement and classification of the spirituality of too many, often without that person’s input. Like you said, many whose truly humble spirituality that went unnoticed here will be surprisingly, but greatly well-respected in heaven.

Makes me think of the unseen widow putting in the smallest of offerings, but Jesus proclaiming she gave more than all the rest. Probably much to the surprise and offense of some that she was pointed out so publically as “the greatest” in this spiritual matter. I like what “Got Questions Ministries” says about this (below):


There are several things that the story of the widow’s mite teaches us. First, God sees what man overlooks. The big gifts in the temple were surely noticed by people; that’s probably what the disciples were watching. But Jesus saw what no one else did: He saw the humble gift of a poor widow. This was the gift that Jesus thought worthy of comment; this was the gift that the disciples needed to be aware of. The other gifts in the treasury that day made a lot of noise as they jingled into the receptacles, but the widow’s mites were heard in heaven.

Second, God’s evaluation is different from man’s. The widow’s two mites added up to a penny, according to man’s tabulation. But Jesus said that she had given more than anyone else that day (Mark 12:43). How could this be, when “many rich people threw in large amounts” (Mark 12:41)? The difference is one of proportion. ...

Third, God commends giving in faith. Here was a woman in need of receiving charity, yet she had a heart to give. ...

It is interesting that, just before Jesus commented on the widow’s mite, He commented on the scribes “who devour widows’ houses” (Mark 12:40). The religious officials of the day, instead of helping the widows in need, were perfectly content to rob them of their livelihood and inheritance. The system was corrupt, and the darkness of the scribes’ greed makes the widow’s sacrifice shine even more brightly. “God loves a cheerful giver” (2 Corinthians 9:7), and He is faithful to take care of His own.


Link to above:
https://www.gotquestions.org/widows-mite.html


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« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2021, 11:22:40 am »

A GREAT WOUNDING of God’s People in GCx Churches

Leaders Abandoning Their Watch



GCx leaders missed the whole point and truth of keeping watch over yourself and the flock. They twisted God’s biblical command to intrusively spy on and cruelly shun possible dissenters of their group’s organization instead of those who perverted God’s Word to create a “superior” following after themselves. GCx leaders and their disciples continue to attack and slander those who point out their terrible abuse in the name of God. Abandoning God’s command to watch themselves and their own teaching to protect their flock, they instead attack the sheep becoming an agent of danger. Obviously if they had watched themselves, McCotter would have been the first to be publically repudiated.



Keep a close watch on how you live and on your teaching. Stay true to what is right
for the sake of your own salvation and the salvation of those who hear you.

1 Timothy 4:16    NLT


This word above used for ‘salvation’ both times here is “sōseis” whose root is “sozo”. It is referring to present rescue and safety here, not primarily security from Hell into Heaven in the life to come. The text is imperatively warning “elders, pastors”, namely Timothy in this case, to rescue himself and those he teaches from the danger of erroneous practices and indoctrination by keeping a close eye on what is being taught. As if to say ‘for your own safety and the safety of those you teach.’ The HELPS study rightly defines it:


4982 sṓzō (from sōs, "safe, rescued") – properly, deliver out of danger and into safety; used principally of God rescuing believers from the penalty and power of sin – and into His provisions (safety).


As they learned from McCotter to deflect any charge of error they taught or practiced; they would deceptively deny it and pervertedly, and often publically, shame the one bringing it to their attention, falsely labeling them as divisive and sinful. Not only were they abandoning their biblical responsibility, but they were also falsely accusing those who confronted them with truth. This is how they kept practicing these abuses for so long, by silencing and DISCREDITING those challenging their spiritually abusive teaching and practices.

Crucially, the first testimony of spiritual abuse on this subject heading bears repeating. It is what happens when God’s commands to leaders of churches are pridefully ignored or rebelliously thrown out. 1 Timothy 4:16 is what the Bible warns “preachers and teachers” to commit to, and the following is what happened in GCx when the leaders were disobedient to it.



The damage this group has done to the minds of young people, young Christians is staggering. ... My story stems from a truly abusive church experience caused by the Great Commission [GCx Churches alias]. ... Confusion, pain, sorrow, anger, sadness, inability to sleep and an actual diagnosis of PTSD is what I experienced because of the Great Commission [again, not the commandment in Matthew 28 - but the name the organization assumed for many years] I needed to turn away from the god I knew in the GCx and figure out who God really is, what is a healthy way to live, and how to heal emotionally and psychologically. This has been incredibly painful. My huge concern with GCC [another GCx alias] is that their system of beliefs fosters depression and poor mental health.
     ... I have come to this conclusion based on mental health professionals' objective assessment of this church's beliefs, (this includes psychiatrists, licensed psychologists, therapists, and nurses), and after speaking to core young people who have left the GCM [GCx alias] church because of trauma caused by these beliefs, actually looking deeper into what their lives and emotional states really were while they were in the system, listening to numerous Faithwalkers messages to understand what they preach, and realizing that the outward appearance of the seeming harmony, unity, friendliness and caring is how they are supposed to act, not truly a manifestation of inner peace and joy that comes from following Jesus.
     ... Mentally, you become confused, unable to logically think things through for yourself. You aren't encouraged (or allowed) to question anything but to accept what the pastors and leaders tell you. You are expected to seek counsel for decisions that you should be responsible for deciding for yourself, and you constantly have people telling you how to live, what to think, and holding you "accountable" in the system.
     Emotionally, life is hard. It's supposed to be hard. Some people cry regularly, often daily. They give up desires they once had in order to serve the church more fully. (Notice I did not say serve God.) Their hopes and dreams and activities that are not church or outreach related are strongly discouraged. True friendships are discouraged so everyone can be "best friends" in the system. Joy is an emotion that is rare.
     Psychologically, people become sad and depressed. Guilt rules their lives, as does fear. They become afraid of God's judgement, afraid they are not doing enough, afraid of living alone or living with anyone not in the system; afraid of honestly examining how much they really are hurting and why, and very afraid to leave the system or have anyone else leave. Anger, frustration, resentment, guilt, etc. well up in a devoted GCM'er but the system does not provide a healthy way to deal with these feelings so they get stuffed and bottled up inside. The cheerful mask of joy and unity is worn despite the inner pain and turmoil. This contradiction within a person creates psychological chaos.
     I don't think it is possible to be psychologically healthy if you buy into this system. The more involved you get and the more you buy into their teaching, the more the "problems" affect you mentally, emotionally, and psychologically. At the same time, you don't see them as "problems" because you have bought into the system by then. Casual members don't experience the same mental, emotional, psychological consequences as people who are devoted the the teachings of the movement.
-wisemind

 
This Testimony is followed by many others who experienced its danger of spiritually abusive teaching and practice both in Part One and Two from the link below:  

http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/a-great-wounding-of-gods-people-in-gcx-churches/



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« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2021, 10:12:58 pm »


What a Fountain of Knowledge

On True Christianity and Abusive “Christianity”



Linda and perhaps others have lighlighted Dr. Diane Langberg on the website for insight into Spiritual Abuse. Though I’ve seen snippets of her here and there, I’m only beginning to learn the depth and breadth of her wonderful understanding of True Christianity by listening at length to some of her talks and interviews. It seems rare to find one so expertly schooled and experienced in psychology that is also has deep roots in the Bible, Jesus and the work of the Holy Spirit. It also seems she has pioneered work in the psychology of Trauma & Abuse. I love that she comes at understanding of the scriptures from the point of view of a believer.

Dr. Langberg seems to have served on numerous boards and runs her own practice in the fifty years she has spent in this field of Trauma & “PTSD.” She is on the board of G.R.A.C.E.  She is Co-Chair of the Trauma Advisory Council of the American Bible Society. She serves at Mission Seminary in Philadelphia and heads another Global Trauma Center, if I have that right.

Brittany Moss of “The Faith and Mental Wellness” Podcast does a great job hosting Dr. Langberg on her show #042, dated 1/17/21. I was floored with how much marvelous insight Dr. Langberg has. It’s definitely worth the time to listen to as your doing other tasks or driving in the car. The title of Ms. Moss’ episode is “Signs of Spiritual Abuse & Beginning Recovery with Dr. Diane Langberg.



Link to Podcast 042:

https://youtu.be/fIYOBlfUId4



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« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2021, 09:19:38 pm »

Here are a few notes I jotted down from a segment of the above richly informative podcast on Spiritual Abuse with Dr. Diane Langberg. I tried to my best to keep to her words as I heard them, but may have paraphrased some.



Crushing others to feel power...  Use another human being wrongly...  whenever there is abuse or misuse of power there is ALWAYS DECEPTION. Deception both precedes and protects...  in Genesis there was deception from the enemy. ...Uses (but twists) God’s Words to call humans to do something ungodly.  Deception is how we get used to things we wouldn’t normally do. Excuses we tell ourselves to make ungodly things okay. ...it grows and our capacity to see it lessens — so we actually believe ourselves. ...Grows And makes deeper roots...  Early stage of things is labeling things inaccurately. ... Because it’s what we want to be safe, like home or church — we deny it.’


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« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2021, 11:40:37 pm »


New Book from Dr. Diane Langberg



"Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority and Abuse in the Church" by Diane Langberg was just published in the last year or so.

The first two paragraphs under Power is Derivative from her book give us something to think about. Dr. Langberg quotes Matthew 28:18-19, "All authority, all power is given to me, therefore go..." and explains how every bit power and authority come from God and those who put themselves under his authority wield it humbly for his glory. She is able to clearly break down behavior to the root.

She points out that power is not given to us independently, but from and through God. So no man has ALL authority or ALL power in the body of Christ or in any church, but Jesus. The only power given a man as a pastor is to feed the sheep, never to feed off of them.


So sorry GCx leaders the WORD of God trumps your word every time --no matter how you may attempt to persuade your people otherwise.



Link:
https://www.amazon.com/Redeeming-Power-Understanding-Authority-Church-ebook/dp/B087RTG65G/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1639633579&sr=8-1



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« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2022, 07:52:48 pm »


A GREAT WOUNDING OF God’s People in GCx Churches

The Aftermath


There are some who post on here occasionally that the victims of GCx spiritual abuse should get over their wounds and move on with their lives. In particular, they claim it is not healthy to process what happened years after it occurred. Sometimes victims of this type of abuse don’t realize until years later the impact on their relationship with Christ. There is layer after layer of discovery of wrongs that can take years to uncover, adding up to considerable Aftermath. Accusers harass victims to cease reading and writing here to “heal.” Some insist the abuse wasn’t really all that harmful; and others who dare to say the spiritual abuse never happened in the first place.

Harassers are quite unfamiliar with the genuine process of healing. Experts in the psychology of healing spiritual abuse explain that the victim must be able to express what was done to them to begin to understand how wrong the abuse was. Then, they can begin to comprehend how adversely it has affected how they think, feel, and view themselves. If it is to be effective, this process cannot be short circuited. It cannot be accomplished in a weekend, a week, or rarely a year if the abuse was ongoing for a long period. Long periods of repeated abuse produces Complex Trauma which is not simple to untangle. In our case it seems to most often seriously alter our view of God, our view of others, and ourselves when the “weapons” used to bludgeon and shame were the name of God and twisting of God’s Word! The resulting warped ideas and views create much condemnation, helplessness and hopelessness.

If someone like myself was in GCx for a decade, it may take many years of healing. In fact, for me 30 years later, I still find myself occasionally triggered by certain “religious” attitudes, actions or lingo. Satan temps us to give up on God with his false image of Him. But, trusting in God’s compassion helps us get secured once again in HIS grace, and have power and joy to live out this calling. The reality is spiritually abusive wounds create troublesome triggers, a sad consequence of continually being abused. With a continued processing of the wrongs we can continue our healing and the triggers do lessen, but for me they have not entirely gone away.


Do those who accuse the victims here of ‘rehashing self-pity’ have any idea how true healing works?  It is a long journey, not an overnight trip.


GCx has been wounding people for about fifty years, some as recent as 2019. How long do you think the aftermath of fifty years will last?


Claiming to have over 40,000 in their ranks at one point in time; how many people do you think it has wounded in all it’s existence?



Satan has waged war on our faith through this spiritual abuse, BUT GOD is greater and can turn our experience into drawing even closer to him in our great need. He can also turn the tables by our speaking out against it; thus, helping others to be delivered from it, and from the resulting damage to their faith that remains long after they have left. The Aftermath turns out to be way deeper and farther reaching than we expected.



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« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2022, 09:53:59 am »

Ironically, sometimes the people who want abuse victims to move on are the same people who have a hard time moving on from the fact that there's a forum they don't like.
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« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2022, 08:15:17 pm »


Running For My Life


This is from the addendum to “Marching to Zion” in which Larry Pile includes “testimonies” (or portions of letters from former members) from across the years in GCx. The angst and pressure resulting from a very skewed “portrait of God” that GCx produced was nothing less than traumatic for many of its members. This particular “testimony” is from one former member to another. How she describes her escape is profound. Our emotional, mental, spiritual and connective social health were in danger there (whether some realized it or not). She was indeed “running for her life.”


“I know when I lived [in the local GCI sisters house] I felt hemmed in & oppressed by rules, schedules, other people’s expectations, fear of being judged, & my own conscience.

“About ‘old’ friendships I had this thought: is it right that we live out our witness by honoring the friends we had before (‘I love you IF you come to church’ is not agape!), or shall we forsake them when they won’t be interested in the same thing we are?

“I’m glad you left the fellowship with the conviction you were obeying the Lord. That has probably helped you more than you realize. When I left, I knew something was wrong, but I thought it was me. I thought they were right, even to the extent that I equated leaving them with leaving God. And I was so unhappy I was ready to take even that step to escape. You can probably imagine how guilty & alone that made me feel. The final result was that I suffered what I consider a mild nervous breakdown through Basic Training... Even after that, I was sunk in depression until very, very recently & I thought I’d never be happy, or willing to be used by the Lord, again... I think, from reading your letter, my counselling [sic] sessions maybe weren’t as vicious as yours, but because my vision wasn’t as clear, perhaps, & I was afraid to tell the people who might have helped me, the results in my life were nonetheless devastating. The only other thing I want to say about all this is that when I left [the city] last spring I felt like I was running for my life...”

—March 1979



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« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2022, 09:04:21 pm »


Burdening Bowed Backs


Sometimes we can compound spiritual abuse wounds by giving insensitive or insincere “pat advice” such as ‘just pray more, serve more, or witness more’. This was often the type of advice given out in a haughty, condescending and sometimes accusatory manner in GCx Churches. It just piles on unfounded guilt, and weighs us down more. It often drives a person further away from God by having them believe they must do more to earn God’s comfort, compassion, and healing. Here is a tweet from Christian Psychologist, Diane Langberg, whose expertise is in trauma, which is often the result of abuse:


We become a hindrance rather than a help when we greet those who suffer with statements such as: “If you would only... pray more, read Scripture more, believe more, stop thinking about yourself, put the past behind you.”  This puts heavy burdens on already bowed backs.

- Diane Langberg, Twitter, April 1, 2022



More, more, more was the response GCx Leaders gave many hurting people - even to hurting leaders. It was the symptom of one of their greatest faults - serving an idol. They sacrificed everything for this idol including people’s well-being. The love and care Jesus commanded was thrown by the wayside because it got in the way of its arrogant and ambitious goals of building a “superior religious empire”.

It’s rather interesting that Jesus’ ministry included healing along with evangelism. Not sure one was more prominent than the other. He certainly didn’t consider ministering to hurting people as slowing down his effectiveness or his goals. It was woven in with who he was and why he came. His caring and healing seemed to authenticate his message. People were drawn to his value of people, especially those small in men’s eyes.

I doubt God thinks too much of religious schemes that draw big crowds, but really aren’t all that concerned about the people.


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« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2022, 08:46:55 pm »

Wasn’t sure what topic to put this excerpt under, but this one seemed fitting.


My kids were born in 2003 and 2005 and we were taught by gcc to abuse our kids. Actually more than that we were pressured to abuse our kids and we were rebuked when we wouldn’t. And no I am not calling spanking abuse. I am saying we were told to hit out kids across their face and to spank them until they bleed and to not stop even when they were teenagers. Thankfully my kids are healing from the trauma of being born into a cult.
- Cult Proof


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« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2022, 06:25:05 pm »


Does Your Spiritual Leader?

In the bathroom of a hospital emergency room recently, I noticed there were posters with a critical question, “Does your …”, calling out to those who are being abused, but may not realize they are in a relationship that is dangerous to them. Here is basically what it read in bold, otherwise my appropriate additions.


 ‘Does your ….  Pressure you into … acts you’re not comfortable with? . . . Monitor your phone calls?  Label you with demeaning names?  Follow you?  Scare you? . . .  Accuse you of being disloyal to (cheating on) them?  Tell you what you can and can’t do, wear, say, read, write?  Do they tell you who you can & can’t talk to? Threaten you (“spiritually”)?  Bully you?


Wow, too bad that wasn’t in the bathrooms of our GCx Churches! Most all of us would have escaped much sooner. Those are abusive entanglements and harmful treatments. We were led to believe in GCx that good pastors encouraged these intrusions and humiliations. But, the Apostle Paul actually would have led the campaign to post those on bathroom church doors. Here is his similar and imperative warning:


You gladly put up with fools since you are so wise!
In fact, you even put up with anyone who enslaves you or exploits you
or takes advantage of you or puts on airs or slaps you in the face
.

2 Corinthians 11:19-20





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« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2022, 09:23:11 pm »

The Holy Spirit kept calling out to me through the verses in bold below when I was in GCx. He repeatedly told me through them there was a person or group of people that were putting an obstruction between me and Christ. Blocking me from pure and simple devotion to Him. God is jealous for me to be loyal to Him first and foremost.

But, because of the mind controlling methods of persuasion to be loyal to GCx at any cost, I was blinded to the reality that GCx and its teachings and practices were the very culprit. Though they claimed to be closer to “biblical truth”; in actuality they were much further away from it than sound teaching churches. Whether they realized or not, many of their teachings were doctrines of demons BECAUSE they severed us from our lordship and dependence on Christ. They instead puffed up men in their own righteousness.



You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ;
you have fallen away from grace. . . .

You were running so well. Who has obstructed you from obeying the truth?
Such persuasion does not come from the One who calls you.

A little leaven works through the whole batch of dough.

Galatians 5:4,7-9



What are some verses the Holy Spirit draws you to and calls out to you through?




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« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2022, 08:24:02 pm »


I still feel that confusion about the people I know in GC. How can people who are so friendly and who want so badly to follow the Lord do such rotten things?

But please, trust what you've read here and what you've seen in your friend. Walnut Creek is not a GC church that has broken with the cult-like past in any way. In fact, I consider it a hotbed of lunacy.

I know it looks nice and fun and cool and "on fire" now, but it's got a nasty dark side that you might not recognize until you're in too deep--or until you wake up one day and realize that you see yourself and the world much more negatively than you used to.

There are other good and cool churches in Des Moines. It's not worth the risk!

-Rebekah, 2010


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« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2022, 07:11:35 am »



No so-called Christian system is truly God’s work unless it fleshes out his character. Toleration of sin, pretense, and crookedness do not reveal the character of God, even if they bear his name. Arrogance is never godly. Covering up sin is never godly. Abuse of power is never godly. Shepherds who feed on sheep are abusive.

-Dr. Diane Langberg



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« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2022, 08:24:26 pm »


This holiday weekend one of my old GCx roommates came to mind. She LOVED Jesus. She was a servant of servants. She was humble. She was dedicated to prayer. She would often help others. The limited time we were roommates she led several people to Christ. Surprisingly, she was not invited into the “discipling” meetings for many years. But, she didn’t seem one to try to earn her way in. Her service felt quite genuine. I think she was confused and hurt by the “rejection” of the GCx leaders.

We hear this same wounding in the GCx culture often on this site. GCx leaders’ process of “selecting the chosen” (for leadership track) I am concluding more and more, was built upon the number of projected sales (or number of converts to their church more than to Jesus) —the public relations face they wanted to present. I feel quite strongly it was never the scriptural body God wanted to build and equip to minister to each other and to the world. I am also more persuaded that those in leadership were not really any more spiritual than the rest of us. As many have admitted from GCx, I think they put on a good show to appear spiritual by the standards of GCx, not Jesus.

If they were truly spiritual, they confronted the charade, were shunned and wrongly accused of being rebellious toward God; or they left quietly.

God bless and lift up all those whose confidence in Christ was shattered by the GCx culture. May He anoint you with the authority and confidence once again to minister in Christ to many even in your older years.



All who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

2 Timothy 3:12



The righteous will flourish like a palm tree,
they will grow like a cedar of Lebanon;
planted in the house of the Lord,
they will flourish in the courts of our God.
They will still bear fruit in old age,
they will stay fresh and green,
proclaiming, “The Lord is upright;
he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him
.”

Psalm 92:12-15




« Last Edit: November 27, 2022, 09:22:07 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2023, 07:22:15 pm »



It's been 18 years since I left and I'm only just starting to heal. ... I first heard the term "spiritual abuse" six years ago from a fellow ex-member with a similar story to mine. Prior to that, I didn't know there was a name for what we had experienced, that other people had been through it too, and that it was wrong. The relief I felt to find that it wasn't just me - that I had been done wrong by, I wasn't just a "bad Christian" - was life-changing. It explained so much about what had happened and perhaps the keys to get my head back on straight and repair my relationship with God. ...

-bLizard,   2018


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For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
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« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2023, 07:51:40 pm »


This first quote below by a very instrumental Christian Psychologist in the world of Church Abuse brought tears to me eyes. It puts the right perspective and value on the voices speaking out here about the affect of their spiritual wounding even some 30 years later. Both of her quotes remind us what weight should be given to the sincere claims of victims of spiritual abuse versus the weight of their “abusers’” claims. Their is no room for lies to cover ungodly deeds in the church. Even the shortest true testimonies like the one below (among hundreds) carry significant meaning in the exposure of rampant spiritual abuse among GCx/GCx founded College Ministries and Churches all over the country and a smattering in other countries.


Vulnerable ones need a voice. They are, however, the most easily discounted by virtue of their very vulnerability. We sadly tend to give more credibility to those who are articulate and seem important to sustaining the system.”

“We do not protect the name of Jesus in the Christian world using godly words to cover ungodly deeds. God wants purity in the kingdom of the heart not the appearance of it in a system that has to lie to make it seem as if it is present.”

-Diane Langberg
 Twitter, March 23 & 20, 2023

(All bold emphasis mine)



I was in [GCx Church/Group in] Columbus [Ohio] from 1979-1986 and then in Miami from 86 to 89.  Both were controlling and abusive and reading this site brings back awful memories that I've mostly stuffed.

-Andrea,   2017


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For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
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« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2023, 08:53:37 am »

I believe this is for the people who feel they are floundering and confused after having been in GCx founded churches:

My people have been been lost sheep;
  Their shepherds have led them astray
  and caused them to roam on the on the mountains.


They wandered over mountain and hill
  And they forgot their own resting place.

Whoever found them devoured them;
  their enemies said, ‘We are not guilty...

Flee out of Babylon;
  leave the land of the Babylonians...

For I will stir up up and bring against Babylon an alliance of great nations...

Because you rejoice and are glad,
  you who pillage my inheritance...


Jeremiah 50:6-11



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For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
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