Ability to "Dabble in" GCM

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[ender]

Hello all,

I hope this to be the right place for this post.  I have been involved in GCM college ministries for about a year and a half now and have had a series of complaints and problems with them which have come to a head more or less as of late.

I am curious what to do in this situation.  I like GCM, and enjoy my involvement there, unfortunately there are parts of me that simply will never "get along" with the ministry as a whole.

For example, I take issue to:

1) Fanatical devotion to the church (whether "home church" or "college ministry")

2) Strong tendencies to lead people into specific roles, especially through discipleship - this is a very persuasive way of getting people more and more involved heavily

3) Tendency to look upon those outside the church as being of no value, other than a soul to save - this also applies rather cynically to other churches

4) Expectation that one (as a guy this is where my perspective comes from) become a certain person, elderlike for men, servantlike for women (not that all men will become elders)

5) Relative judgmental attitude regarding things such as daily devotional time, reading bible, going on mission trips, summer plans, etc

6) Monopoly on one's time - through increasing involvement in activities, etc.

Anyways, that is a short list of the problems I have with GCM and what lead me to want to become less involved, as I feel I am rapidly becoming "entrapped."  If anyone with a similar experience would be willing to share their experience that would be great!

Thanks in advance!

[nelliepooh]

these things you have outlined are things many on this forum have noticed with some churches in Gcm and even the organization as a whole.  you are not alone.  My advice would be to bring these concerns to your pastor and see what they say.  If the church doesn't Change in a few months I would get out while u can. 

[EverAStudent]

Dear Ender,  what you have experienced are, in my opinion, the behaviors that surfaced in the early 1970's and have continued because of uncorrected doctrinal errors. 

For example, they came to read Scripture as saying that all men have been given the spiritual gift of elder, then prophet, and then apostle if they develop spiritually enough (read Jim McCotter's book on the subject at GCXWEB).  They mistakenly came to read Matthew 28:19 as the greatest commandment, instead of Matthew 22:38, and they do not see Matthew 28:20 as a mandate to spend the majority of one's church time in Bible study and Bible training because they see it as subordinate to verse 19. 

And so it goes with all their unbalanced or "odd" behavior, in my opinion.

Frankly, it is great that they are very active.  But that work ethic becomes their focus of attention instead of Bible study and Bible training (remember Mary and Martha?).  So GCx churches can often become abusive to promote the evangelism work instead of remembering that the training work is equally important, if not more so.

[ender]

Thanks for the responses so far.

I think though, at least with respect to nelliepooh's comment, that the things I take objection with in GCM are the very things that allow it to be so successful - they get huge amounts of devotion from their followers, and much of the way things are done is to encourage people to become this way, to the exclusion of anything non-church related.  From the perspective of the church itself this is quite successful, but to me, it is blatantly manipulative (which perhaps is why it is successful?).

It is also possible I simply take objection to the level to which GCM as a whole wants and/or expects you to "die to self."  That however is not necessarily limited to GCM amongst evangelical Christian movements, and I am aware of this.

With specific respect to the Matt 22:38 vs Matt 28:19 difference, I know I have heard the Great Commission commandment referred to as the "Second Great Commandment" (or something similar to this, I forget the exact phrasing).

I guess it's hard for me to put down concrete things that I take "issue with."  But my gut instinct has been quite uncomfortable with the idea of GCM.  I've though for a while that GCM is a cult, or at the very least, is an extremely cultish organization, which probably does not help any with the above uncomfortability.

[Huldah]

Ender, I'm curious. How are you defining "success"? Is it church growth? Fundraising? Number of new conversions? Those things are all fine, especially the conversions, but in and of themselves they don't necessarily mean a church is successful. If members of the church are feeling oppressed, manipulated, bound by legalism, and/or constantly guilty in spite of their best efforts to live up the church's demands, than one has to ask, is that really a successful church?

[ender]

Ender, I'm curious. How are you defining "success"? Is it church growth? Fundraising? Number of new conversions? Those things are all fine, especially the conversions, but in and of themselves they don't necessarily mean a church is successful. If members of the church are feeling oppressed, manipulated, bound by legalism, and/or constantly guilty in spite of their best efforts to live up the church's demands, than one has to ask, is that really a successful church?

With that I was referring to the ability for GCM to retain members.

I think they are quite good at getting people to stick around, and much of the church's activities have that aim as a very important driving force (whether or not the primary factor, I'm not sure, but it definitely is a component and at the least a strong causal relationship).

[boboso]

The key is getting to the basis for most of the relationships in the (authoritarian) GCx franchises. Speaking from experience, these relationships are contingent on how well you support the franchise and really, nothing else. As many of us can attest to, you will likely lose a number of relationships if you decide to leave as these relationships had no foundation built on Christ to begin with.

[wastedyearsthere]

I agree with the boboso and others that have posted.  GCx tends to be so goal oriented that once you leave you no longer fit with their goals of reaching and building.   There have only been less than a handful that stay in touch with me (meaning Christmas cards) and many I considered my closest friends.  What was promised was we would be with each other to the end...... (I thought that was death or rapture). 

Now I understand it meant the end of my association with the Church!

[ender]

The key is getting to the basis for most of the relationships in the (authoritarian) GCx franchises. Speaking from experience, these relationships are contingent on how well you support the franchise and really, nothing else. As many of us can attest to, you will likely lose a number of relationships if you decide to leave as these relationships had no foundation built on Christ to begin with.

I agree with the boboso and others that have posted.  GCx tends to be so goal oriented that once you leave you no longer fit with their goals of reaching and building.   There have only been less than a handful that stay in touch with me (meaning Christmas cards) and many I considered my closest friends.  What was promised was we would be with each other to the end...... (I thought that was death or rapture). 

Now I understand it meant the end of my association with the Church!

Hmm..

I think, based on my experience, this to be correct.

Does anyone have experience in "scaling back" their level of involvement?  I do not like how strongly you get 'stuck' in GCM related activities - from my experiences and understandings, as well as those from you all here (many thanks  ) and prayer and self reflection I've realized that I am 100% uncomfortable with becoming totally committed into the GCM church I am involved in.

[boboso]

Let me refine my earlier post a little bit -- the silver lining from what I wrote is that you will also likely find that some people in that franchise do really care and have a relationship built on Christ with you too. These folks will have fellowship with you whether or not you are in the GCx franchise.

If/when you pull away, you will see which is which right away. It was really painful for us as we lost relationships we thought we had, but it also strengthened some relationships with others that were better than we thought too. Some unsolicited advice based on my personal pain: realize that some will not want to leave and will be offended if you bring it up. It's likely some of your friends are seeing the same things you are and maybe reach the same conclusions, but save yourself a lot of pain and avoid assumptions.

[wastedyearsthere]

from my experience -- scaling back doesn't work very well -- although there are (as GCx referred to them as) fringe people.  But you will be labelled -- not doing God's Will, being rebellious, seeking your own desires, not being saved etc.  If you are comfortable with that and won't be bothered by the reproof (since I assume you are heavily involved and wanting to be less involved, right?) -- if this is the case -- I would think you would be getting heavily reproved since stepping away from heavy commitment or leadership is never God's Will.

I had a friend who was a leader (not elder).  He wanted to step down from leadership -- he had gone through some major changes and a severe depression and wanted to step away for a time period (This was at Walnut Creek church).  He was heavily reproved for seeking his own desire and not being willing to serve -- made to feel worldly and selfish.  

He eventually left the Church.

[boboso]

WYT,

It's sad to hear such a story. Did this person leave the GCx franchise or the Church (i.e. reject Christianity)? I've a friend in particular who I believe is in the same boat, but will lose everything once he does it. All this to say, when you leave a GCx franchise, it may tear apart your "friendships" and it may tear apart your family too. It's horrible this is all done in the name of Christianity -- once you leave, it hurts and leaves some questioning Christianity altogether.

I'll never forget the time I asked this same "leader" what happened with believers that were around before GCx and he had no answer except for: "Submit". I saw in his eyes he knew better (he even hesitated), but gave the worst answer anyway. We left the franchise behind that same night.

[wastedyearsthere]

This was a person in worship leadership -- so it didn't effect their livelihood or the strength of their Christian faith.  This person had served faithfully GCx for a long period of time (around 15 years). 

They found another church and healed from this poor example of Christian leadership.  But just another example of GCx intolerance of anything that doesn't further their purpose.

[ender]

from my experience -- scaling back doesn't work very well -- although there are (as GCx referred to them as) fringe people.  But you will be labelled -- not doing God's Will, being rebellious, seeking your own desires, not being saved etc.  If you are comfortable with that and won't be bothered by the reproof (since I assume you are heavily involved and wanting to be less involved, right?) -- if this is the case -- I would think you would be getting heavily reproved since stepping away from heavy commitment or leadership is never God's Will

This more or less is the case.

I am heavily involved, but have been becoming more and more concerned regarding some of the things in GCM that I initially "ignored."  When asking people about them in the past, I was encouraged to treat them as "doubts" or things like that - not necessarily things that are actual problems with the system, but my understandings of the system.  This encouragement, just to be clear, was not an overt in my face communication, but a general trend from people I'd discussed them with previously.

I'm also at a bit of a loss who to discuss these sorts of "problems" with (not problems explicitly, but issues, etc, which I'm going to call problems) because I do not think that most people actively a part of GCM will give me anything but a biased response.  Hence one of the reasons coming here

[wastedyearsthere]

I don't know what to advise.  If you pull out of activities and leadership -- you will probably be hassled about this.  I have too many stories of people trying to pull back on their commitments and the reproof was rigorous. 

It is easier to just never get too involved to begin with.  I think they tend to be easier on people they are trying to "win". 

I would look around at other Church's in your area.  This is what we did.  We continued going to GCx for awhile and did some Church shopping.  Of course, I wasn't a leader or in much capacity of serving so it was easier.  I slipped away quietly once I found a better Church home.  All my "friends" that swore to be with me to the end -- dumped me.  Only a few true ones keep in touch. 

[AgathaL'Orange]

We quit being involved with as many activities and spent more time with our kids.  That's how we started our "exodus".  Eventually, we had so many questions that we just left.  But initially we went from being at church at least 5 nights a week to about two or three.  We were leading three major activities and then went down to leading only one or two periodically.  We also cut back on the involvement with church work (cleaning, painting, work projects) because it seemed unfair for people to be working full time AND keeping up their own homes AND trying to keep the church together AND leading a ton of groups  AND bringing food to potlucks, small group, Sunday morning fellowship AND being hospitable to people in your home.  It was just too much.  Oh yeah AND giving sacrificially to the church.  It's just asking too much of people.

I look back on those years and wish we would have just gone on walks more and got to know our neighbors or thought about where we REALLY wanted to live.  Ugh. 

I know people who were working full time or near full time, pastoring, leading small group, coaching multiple little leagues, keeping fit, raising a large family, leading youth group, wives leading women's group, leading drama, regularly writing devotionals and other things, being very hospitable (more than once a week having people over), attending women's conferences, youth conference, marriage conference, GCLI (oh and helping lead GCLI), men's retreats..... These families were amazing.