Ad Hominem

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[Linda]

I knew that the fallacy class we did a couple years back would come in handy. I had a little extra time this afternoon and did some random blogging. I wound up reading a blog of someone who recently left a GCM or GCC  or GCx church (Please tell me the difference! Are the campus churches GCM and is everything else GCC?)

Anyhoo, I found this comment from an attender (and I think leader) in the church that the blogger had recently left and blogged about.

Being a merciful person, I will not mention either name, but you can PM me if you want a link. (I also have a copy in case the link is taken down)

Here's the comment from the current GCx person in response to the blogger's leaving the church and blogging about it.

What this says to me is that you are under attack. You’ve been infected with lies, probably picked up from the decommissioned blog, and it is clouding your view.

Now, first of all, I would like to say that I have a soft spot in my heart for people who blog about leaving GCx and have the bravery to use their real name. You will note that many here do not choose to identify themselves. I think that in itself speaks of the intimidation that happens when people leave and speak. Who needs the repercussions?

That said, I would like to address the comment which is a spiritually disguised ad hominem attack. First of all, the writer tells the blogger that this site is infected with lies. Lies, what lies, do tell.

Secondly, the commenter, without specific knowledge accuses this site of being the culprit. If I recall correctly, I believe Satan is the accuser of the brethren.

Finally, I would want to tell that commenter that he has just judged, without any first hand knowledge, some fellow Christians.
Watch out who you judge. Remember Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

2 And what I do I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

Things that look good aren't always good.

It is a wise thing to listen to spiritual leaders, and then put their words to the test of comparing it to THE WORD. It is the word of God that is our final authority, not the words of men.

And Christ is the head of every man.

1 Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. 2 Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you. 3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

[Linda]

Here's one other comment from a different poster on that blog.

And stop talking to divisive disgruntled types (Romans 16:17) who populate the Decommissioned message board. Lots of bitter people there are unable to give up the past and looking for affirmation.

[Jason Stauffacher]

Linda,

I guess after reading your recent entry, what you wrote about that some from the Mother Ship (i.e. current GCM folks, maybe even pastors) know and read this chat-group, as you can read it as a guest without registering.

I too went to Evergreen under Mark Darling and Brent Knox.  I respect what some of the things they do, and out of my own respect for myself, left circa 1994.  Your thoughts and ideas about the Ad Hom attack.  That is true, and really lead me to be honest with myself, and share my real identity and realness.  Dr. and ex-national dude Sam down in sunny FL and you offering your real name, challenged me just to not be in the light.  To say that I am not afraid any longer and say GCM has core issues.  Nate's leaving GCM from what I have read recently, and his honesty of with his heart, challenged me too.  And then you, Linda find other blogs commenting about our blog.

Blogs hating on other blogs.  What would the pastors say about that?  Wink Wink.  

My first question for you Linda, and for us all, is, what was the link to the blog that said for us to shut-up and grow up and stop writing?

The second is more of a comment, and to say thank you for being a light to me in regard that you left GCM for a whole other set of issues (other than mine.)  

It's a high-five.  Thanks.

And thirdly, I agree that Ad Hom's are used when it just cannot be addressed in any other proper manner.  They just don't get it and cannot stand that other people look and see the black box so differently.  

Yes, the Black Box of GCM has been lost for a long time, and the directions they are going to and came from will never be known.  (i.e.  "Black Box is used like a metaphor of an airplane's directional recorder here but relative to GCM's past, present and future that is never shown or told in a candid manner.  They cover and hide.)

And lastly, I wanted to say that it is true that many many on this chat-room hide, and for good reason.  The dragon of GCM is still strongly held in their mind and hearts.  Like in the movie, The Matrix, they have not freed their mind yet.  You, Sam and a few others who use their real names and are honest can be read and understood at a new and different level.

-Jason Stauffacher

Any Comments directly to me:
jasonstauffacher@gmail.com

[puff of purple smoke]

And stop talking to divisive disgruntled types (Romans 16:17) who populate the Decommissioned message board. Lots of bitter people there are unable to give up the past and looking for affirmation.

What this says to me is that you are under attack. You’ve been infected with lies, probably picked up from the decommissioned blog, and it is clouding your view.

The original poster later responds with:

I don’t really think the decommissioned site is really influencing its been several months, i think almost a year since I’ve visited the website, that was back when they had a wordpress site, and I don’t think they have that anymore.

Hah! De-comm, a website the blogger hasn't visited in almost a year, has "infected" him with lies. Could it be that this site has achieved "Master Status" proportions within GC? From Reject The Wicked Man, a research paper on GC's past excommunication practices and slander beliefs:

Essential to the members' successful adoption of negative definitions of
targets is the skillful use of stereotyping and retrospective
interpretation (Garfinkel, 1956).

[...]

The Master Status Imputation

"Enemy deviants" generally are former members of the sect who have
attained within the movement a master status of mystical and outlandish
proportions. Often the leadership states that present targets are asking
the very same questions that [Bill Taylor] and [H] were asking the sect many years
earlier. [Bill Taylor] and [H] are two of several who are considered the greatest
enemies of the sect.  These enemies  are believed to have been led by
the 1976 excommunicant, [Bill Taylor]. They are believed to be the originators of
the factious attitudes and statements.

It is apparently inconceivable to [Great Commission] leaders that members all over
the country could come up with the same questions that the "enemies" had
years earlier unless those members had been told those questions by the
enemies. Thus, a handful of scapegoats are believed by the sect to be at
the bottom of nearly all the defections and purges the sect has
encountered.

[...]

...the leadership freely interchanges discussion of the enemies with Satan
himself. The enemies have attained the ultimate master status, that of the
"embodiment of Satan." Their behaviors are Satan's behaviors. Their
deeds become his. It is a powerful example of the imputation of ultimate
deviance.

[...]

This master status imputation is functional to the group because it
reveals one way of dealing with conflict within the sect. Scapegoating
exaggerates the prevalence of conflict and thus helps to reinforce
shared norms and goals.  

[puff of purple smoke]

Also, (Linda touched on this) to label the entire site under the context of Romans 16:17 is really offensive. Starting at Romans 16:17, and continuing to the next verse:

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

There are and have been a large number of people posting here, at many different stages of their walks with Christ, but to blanket label all of them as deceivers and divisive, not serving Jesus Christ, and to be avoided entirely, is callously presumptuous.

From the research paper quoted above:

"Essential to the members' successful adoption of negative definitions of targets is the skillful use of stereotyping and retrospective interpretation"

I guess it's much easier to stereotype people critical of your movement as divisive slanderers with ill intent, than to accept that some of what they are saying may be true.

[namaste]

Personally, I was never able to work up much "care" about what anonymous boogey-people think of me on the internet.  If some GCx drone reads this website and needs to call me a "slanderer" and "divisive" so that s/he can remain committed to GCx (or sleep better at night), I really don't care.

wrt revealing names, I don't see the point.  The cloak of anonymity is constantly used as an excuse by the GCx higher-ups for not doing anything about people's complaints.  Dave Bovenmeyer knows who Nate Swinton is, but that didn't prompt him to tell the truth about the Articles of Association.  Why would I reveal my name and breach my privacy when it's quite obvious that it won't make a difference?!

What's more, as has been mentioned, many of us do maintain friendships with those still "on the inside" of GCx churches.  To reveal my identity here would mean sacrificing those friendships.

It seems to me that by demanding names, GCx is underhandedly suggesting that people can't maintain friendships with those inside GCx once they decide to leave GCx.  

Pardon me, but isn't that essentially what excommunication (or shunning, in this case) is?  Haven't they promised not to do that anymore?

You know that saying...

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

[Linda]

It just occurred to me that what I wrote earlier may have been misunderstood, so I wanted to briefly clarify.

I do not think everyone should identify themselves and I totally understand why some don't. I think that it is very noble for many to remain anonymous. I know many who have family and friend relationships to protect. I was in no way saying these people are cowards and I thought they needed to come out.

The point in saying that was that I thought it spoke volumes about GCx that people needed to be anonymous to speak without fear of repercussions.

I really felt for the blogger who left his church and then was hit by all sorts of accusations from GCx leaders. Everything from you are under attack by the devil (I guess that's what that comment meant) to you are listening to lies.

What struck me about the comments on that blog were the personal attacks on individuals. It is one thing to say to someone, "I believe you are wrong," and then offer reasons. It is an entirely different thing, an attack on character, to call someone a liar.

Hope that makes sense. Sorry for any confusion my comment may have made. I think the comments on that other blog are proof that all you anonymous people should stay anonymous!

Oh, and Jason, right now I don't want to make public that link and risk causing further angst for that blogger.

[nateswinton]

That situation is totally crazy right now (the blog linda mentioned).  The guy is a friend of mine (who may have brought on a bit of the stuff himself).  It's not unbelievable at all to me that those things are being said to or about him, though.  That's just how they roll in that church.

[Jason Stauffacher]

"If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck..."

Well, ducks lose their feathers when they moult.  And this whole thread is very ducky.

-Jason

[Jason Stauffacher]

To be clandestined  OR not to be clandestined? That is the question.  I think it speaks more volumes when you have had a history with GCx and speak your mind, show your interest and be who you are fully.  I am still very connected to Evergreen in Minneapolis.  I have many friends that have left there, and everyone acts the same way, very secretive and quiet about it.  It is uncanny that way.  I wonder if it is like that all over.  Please tell me if it is, but based on this chat-room, it might very well be that way, as actions speak louder than words.  It is almost like they stole a friends bike, it's in the garage and tell everyone to shut up about it to the friend that it was stolen from.

We are so ginger around the current members of GCx, and I guess I am sick of it.  Real sick of it.  They have no issues to speak their mind, why not us with openness?  I guess we are still scared, Linda.  Anonymous seems to work for a few months, and no one listens then, as we are letting the Big Bad Wolf use words against us.

When my brother come out of the closet, (i.e. stated to my family and extended family that he was gay), I felt more respect for him.  He is not anonymous any longer about this. Duh!  I guess, I might get some response here about this, but my step-brother is more free now.  He accepts himself, his decision, and all that.

When someone says openly, I do this and this is who I am and why, this is better personal psychology than lying about what the real feelings are.  Hiding is  a cult-trained response.  Don't tell this to anyone, it's a secret knowledge here, or many other "things" we learned from them.

See what the Larry says:

Larry Pile replied:
Snoopy asked a very common, and important, question: “what advice do you have for those of us who have left GCM, but just can’t seem to ‘escape it’?” After 17 years working with ca. 700 ex-cultists and survivors of spiritual abuse I know how people can leave a cult or TACO but, to some degree, still carry elements of it with or even _in_ them. There is no really easy answer to the question Snoopy asked, and while “Time heals all wounds” is too facile, there is some truth in it. Time doesn’t heal _all_ wounds, but it does heal some. The farther you get from a negative experience, both in time and geography if possible, the less that experience will continue to plague you.

Note: I am not saying I agree with the gay-lifestyle, but the beginnings of healing for anyone, man or woman, gay or straight is a loving family.  So I chose to love him and not judge.  Maybe he'll come out of his coming out.  My point is when once you accept your decisions and enjoy who you are,
AND not afraid of the GCM Big-Bad-Wolf, you might experience life better, in a whole way, in a whole healed way, not a clandestined manner.

Accept yourself as Christ has accepted you.  Hiding is a response-mechanism.  And I am TIRED of that.  I did that for years and years at Evergreen under Mark and Brent.  Larry Pile is right.  We still carry that GCx stuff inside us, all the time.  I have freed my mind as Morpheus suggested.  And Jesus, for that matter.

-Jason

[Linda]

I was just thinking about these quotes from the comments section of the blog I stumbled upon.

And stop talking to divisive disgruntled types (Romans 16:17) who populate the Decommissioned message board. Lots of bitter people there are unable to give up the past and looking for affirmation.

What this says to me is that you are under attack. You’ve been infected with lies, probably picked up from the decommissioned blog, and it is clouding your view.

I find myself wondering why it is okay for some (not all do this) GCx leaders to libel believers who no longer attend their churches by calling them liars. I have not lied on this blog and I resent the accusation. It is libel (if written) and slander (if spoken). If someone believes someone has lied on this forum they should take it up with that person.

Also, if GCx leaders are telling people we are bitter and can't "give up the past", I might suggest that they refrain from hand delivering letters of rebuke to former members more than a year after they left.

I was pretty much over this till that infamous sermon and those letters, phone calls, and e-mails from pastors OVER A YEAR AFTER WE LEFT!!!! And, then, when the pastor pulled up in his car at noon one day unannounced with a biting letter of rebuke (tell me when it is ever appropriate for a pastor to show up alone at the house of a woman who left the church more than a year earlier), I was stunned. And, then, about the shunning....oh, never mind.

For me, this is about Biblical error. The GCx leaders can tell everyone that this is a new wave of persecution, tell others that this site is poison and full of lies, and that we are all just bitter and working for the devil, and that the Internet is full of people trying to destroy them. But, what they never do, is address the issues.

Some of us actually care about the Bible. Some of us think it is wrong for a pastor to place himself between a believer and God. That is the spot that Jesus only holds because of what He did on the Cross.

I have no hatred for any GCx people. I think they have a lot right. But, it seems that there are some areas of error that no one wants to confront or address.

Fortunately, we haven't lost any real Christian friends. Those that shunned us were more social acquaintances than friends. And, the Body of Christ has welcomed us, encouraged us, and blessed us in spite of this sad experience.

[maranatha]

" But, what they never do, is address the issues.
Some of us actually care about the Bible. Some of us think it is wrong for a pastor to place himself between a believer and God. That is the spot that Jesus only holds because of what He did on the Cross. "

Here's a few tidbits that I was sent today  that may encourage you, too, Linda:

"Those who stand highest in the esteem of men are most exposed to grievous peril."  
 Thomas A Kempis


"Woe to you when all men speak well of you..."  
 Jesus Christ (Luke 6:26)