Are You Cool Enough?

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[AgathaL'Orange]

“So should I become a nerd to reach nerds?”

Hey that’s a good point! How come no one ever starts wearing black trenchcoats, playing Magic cards, D&D, gets addicted to WoW, and becomes a chess master to reach the gamers? Or paints his face white, wears two different colored contacts, or wears red lipstick for the goths? Or buys a boat, takes up golf, and gets addicted to wine tasting for the executive crowd.

It does seem that the emphasis is on ages 18-35 and definitely towards the crowd that tends to be on the hip side. I mean if you were to become all things to all men for the sake of the gospel (if this is how you interpret it anyway) then there should be a person on staff to represent each segment of college student. That would be so funny.

Here’s the way staff should look according to that model!

Minister to the gothically inclined. (see above)
Minister to the tatooed. (has assorted tattoes with a heavenly message)
Disability advisor (won’t go there)
Homeschooled through high school liason. (advises students–But you can’t write in pink pen on college exams!)
Ambassador to radical feminists. (buzz cut)
Undercover Catholic converter (crosses self).

Sorry I have been getting carried away.

And underneath it all they’re just your typical dad who likes football and grilling. Or a mom who likes Michael W. Smith.

[Dipping my toes in....]

LOL, Agatha!!!!!



You just cracked me up….



But anyways, on a serious note, my two cents on this topic is that I find it sad, too. I think it really detracts from a beautiful thing - God loves me just the way I am and He will use me and my strengths, weaknesses, quirks, talents, etc, etc! I don’t have to be anyone other than me. And that’s good enough.



Luckily (or perhaps unluckily as I probably would have left sooner had they done this) the GCM church I was involved in did not do the “Extreme Makeover: Leadership Edition.” I never felt any pressure to change my appearance.

[erik]

“So should I become a nerd to reach nerds?”



Hey that’s a good point! How come no one ever starts wearing black trenchcoats, playing Magic cards, D&D, gets addicted to WoW, and becomes a chess master to reach the gamers? Or paints his face white, wears two different colored contacts, or wears red lipstick for the goths? Or buys a boat, takes up golf, and gets addicted to wine tasting for the executive crowd.



It does seem that the emphasis is on ages 18-35 and definitely towards the crowd that tends to be on the hip side. I mean if you were to become all things to all men for the sake of the gospel (if this is how you interpret it anyway) then there should be a person on staff to represent each segment of college student. That would be so funny.



Here’s the way staff should look according to that model!



Minister to the gothically inclined. (see above)

Minister to the tatooed. (has assorted tattoes with a heavenly message)

Disability advisor (won’t go there)

Homeschooled through high school liason. (advises students–But you can’t write in pink pen on college exams!)

Ambassador to radical feminists. (buzz cut)

Undercover Catholic converter (crosses self).



Sorry I have been getting carried away.



And underneath it all they’re just your typical dad who likes football and grilling. Or a mom who likes Michael W. Smith.

_____________________________



just a thought…start a “Comment Hall of Fame” and put this one in it!

[G_Prince]

I really disagree with the idea of relevance. I don’t think the church needs an update. It is a beautiful place which a beautiful message which has and will continue to be relevant for all time. It’s tragic that people feel the need to jazz up church and throw out many of the traditions which have made it last for over two thousand years. This isn’t just a critique of GCM but a lot of Evangelical churches throughout the world.

[AgathaL'Orange]

Gene, I heartily agree. And, can I say that it is a bit disrespectful to your audience, if you assume they aren’t interested in your message if it isn’t packaged and presented by an ipod toting, funky t-shirt wearing, artsy glasses sporting speaker?

I mean, my experience with people in college is that a whole, heck of a lot of people really care about the meaning of life. I really think they do, and there is a respect for being “good.” I think a lot of people just think it’s unattainable and don’t know who to listen to.

People see right through an act, as sincerely motivated as it may be. And believe it or not, people who are sincerely searching are going to care more about whether you have answers and less about your coolness quotient.

[G_Prince]

Nate,

About the location thing.
We’re not about to point out were we live because it would implicate certain individuals and church groups. This blog is a general critique of GCM and not of any one church or person within the church. So with that in mind let me freely state that we both attended and did not attend the Ames church between one and fifty years

I also want to admit that I was a huge fan of “The Big Picture” by Michael W. Smith when it first came out. That is true confession!

[G_Prince]

Agreed Agatha,

This whole topic flashes scenes of Saved through my head. Didn’t we have enough cool factor in high school?

[nateswinton]

I got a huge kick out of Saved. I honestly really liked it.

About relevance, I don’t think anyone NEEDS to change. That’s why I asked about the command/principle/prefrence thing. I think it’s a prefrence, and at the most a princible. And because of that, I think it’s acceptable if somone WANT’S TO. So I won’t criticize people that decide to do that.

About becoming a nerd… I’ve got one bumper sticker on my car. An Apple sticker. Know what’s fun for me? Making fun of PC’s hardware and software relative to the newest Mac deveolpments. I hit the forums and pwn people with my 1337 flames. I was addicted to WoW for a year, and you know what I do for fun when I have spare time? I read and post on my old guild’s forum. All my non-christian friends are hardcore gamers. I was once too. I could be one still if I wasn’t married or working with our church. Getting married kills your free time

Since I’m already a nerd, I’ll continue here with my outreach. I don’t think I need to change, and I don’t think anyone NEEDS to change. You’re misunderstanding me. I think it’s acceptable for someone to change their outward appearance for the sake of the gospel, as long as their message is the same. Do I do it? No way! Can I find a command against it? Nope. So I can peaceably co-exist with people that do it.

Did the pastor that had the “make-over” tell anyone else to do it? Nope. Did anyone in the church act like anyone needed to become more cool? Not that I’m aware of. In fact, I remember some jokes about Tim’s new earing over lunch at Fazoli’s that day. All in love and good fun.

One of my friends here at the Rock LOVES Michael W. Smith. She was in love with him growing up and still giggles when songs by him get played. I guess growing up in Africa deprived me of the joys of Michael W. Smith. I don’t get what all the excitement is about

[AgathaL'Orange]

Michael W. Smith said it perfectly when he said,

“Guuuuuu—uuuuuurrl, guuuuuuuu-uuu-uuuurlllll, you don’t have to be picture perfect—- to be in my wooooooo-rrrrrrrrrld, gii–rrrrrlll….”

If Michael W. Smith says we don’t have to be picture perfect… I am standing behind that.

We actually had MWS 2 on record in 1984. We were the ultimate Christian hipsters in the 80’s. We were beyond rad.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the general spirit of being “winsome” to reach people with the gospel, but I see so many abuses of this that affect our testimony and cause confusion. I’m concerned with holiness, too. When we dress like a punk rocker, what is the message we want to convey. “I am doing this, not because it is what I prefer, but because I love you. This isn’t really me.” If I was the recipient of that image, I wouldn’t want that. I would respond, “I want you to be you because I want to know you as you are. If the image I see is because that is what God has changed you into, then that is fine and I am encouraged with that. But if God hasn’t changed you into a punk rocker, then I don’t think you are being true to yourself, to God, or to me.”

Hudson Taylor became Chinese because he wanted to reach the Chinese, and took on poverty and clothing to do so. I don’t have a problem with that because I think that would be consistent with what Christ would do (and did). The punk rocker image I just can’t see. I don’t see the Scriptures saying that we should run out and cover our bodies with tatoos and mutilate our bodies (put holes and rods in it and give ourselves snake, forked-tongues) just because it might help us relate better. (I actually see the opposite taught in Scriptures on these matters.) Some today wear expensive, fancy jewelry and suits, drive the best, live in the best, and work in glass cathedrals to reach the rich. How can they continue doing that? What kind of message does that send?

Nor do I think it is right that we should use coarse language as I saw at a high school conference in Iowa where my high school son and I heard Mark Darling use the F* word on stage, along with other less-coarse language, in the context of relating to the high schoolers (he wasn’t using the word as an example of what would be wrong to say). I was disgusted.

I am an ex-GC pastor. I have many good things to say about my former involvement, as well as many concerns. I love the people I left, and yet I am glad I am moving on. I believe that the motives (and many things they have accomplished) are often good, but I have witnessed (and been the recipient of) hurtful, ungraceful actions towards people as well.

Enough for now. Just dropping these thoughts into the mix. Someday I’ll jump in again - when I have time (work, you know). And when I can give some time to putting my thoughts together.

All kinds of people are watching this site, huh?

[nateswinton]

[nateswinton]

Anon,

I think I agree with everything you’re saying. Just to play devil’s advocate, though, I’ll bring up a dilema I’ve considered.

I was a punk in high school. I still like the music. My brother in law has a whole sleve of tatoos and plugs in his ears. We used to go to hardcore shows all the time, and I remember having the time of my life in the mosh pit.

When I go plant a church in Madison, I really want to get a ministry going to the punk scene there, and I know my brother in law does too. Would it be wrong for me to immerse myself in that scene again? Or should I call them out of their scene to join my church? What if that means that they’ll be the odd-man-out? Then they should change to be like us? In what sense?

I’m only asking those questions to demonstrate that while there are obvious extremes on either side that are equally wrong, it’s not necessarily a black and white issue.

Maybe this is a weird topic for me because I’ve been a jerk, a jock, a nerd, a punk, a gamer, a brawler, a nice guy and a womanizer - all over the last 10 years of my life. I have a very diverse… uh… palate(?) for people, and a diverse back ground. My identity only is black and white in a spiritual sense.

So it seems totally acceptable for me to see someone don a new outward persona. I’m the same guy to all my friends, but my buddies that like to wrestle and box and my buddies that play WoW for 30+ hours a week probably wouldn’t hit off. That’s cool, cause I’m a diverse guy, no problem. I don’t hit a switch and become different. I’m just not one of those characters from cheap “B” movies that has a one-dimensional personality. I have depth.

If all my different friends compared notes on what kind of a guy I am, they’d all agree. I’m learning how to be all things for all men. And not sacrifice my personality or anything. Is this making any sense?

[Anonymous]

I wish I had time to respond more thoughtfully, cereb. Maybe down the road I will. A few random thoughts though.

It is commendable that you have the spirit of wanting to lay down your life for others, even to take the Hudson Taylor approach and take on things to reach the lost. I don’t have a problem with that as a concept.

Remember that Jesus wasn’t trying to become like the world - he was commanding that people follow him and become like him and come out of the world. He did some things and said things that were not popular. (I don’t think that we should do or say unpopular things just because they are unpopular though.)

Are we holy in all our conduct and words? Are we growing in holiness or worldliness?

Do we believe in the power of the gospel, or do we actually think that it needs help? I’m thinking that some might think that our image is more powerful than the gospel and the truths that come out of it.

If you can be yourself and grow in holiness and convey Christ without compromise and separate from worldliness and believe first in the power of the gospel and not image, then I think you are on a good track.

Just some disjointed thoughts for now. (I really am not ready to contribute greatly yet )

[nateswinton]

Anon,

Those are fantastic questions! Maybe another one to add to the list (and for me to consider) is “Am I doing this out of Love or insecurity?”

I think it’s unloving and selfish to call someone to basically adopt your social sphere and worldly thoughts “in the name of the Gospel”. Case in point: “Hey, leave your punk friends and come meet the nice people at my church”. Exception: “Hey, you stay right where you are. I’ll party with you tonight, man, I love you”. Ideally we’d meet them where they’re at though, at least on some level. If that means changing our outward appearance, that can be one way. It’s definately not the only way. Jesus reached out to Samaritans as a Jew.

[Anonymous]

You’ve got an additional, real good point. I can tell that you are a man in the hand of God!

[MamaD]

Agatha,

“If Michael says it, it’s good enough for me. I’ll stand with you on that point.” MamaD says in her nasal Michael W. voice.

Wasn’t he permed on that album, as well? Maybe we need 80’s perms.

[AgathaL'Orange]

You know, if I could I would. There is a part of me that still likes 80’s perms.

[Samuel Lopez De Victoria]

Genevieve,



You make me laugh!



I don’t know if I would be like or disliked. I’ve been on both sides of looks. I remember when I left Seminary, I looked like a nerd. After that, I acquired an afro like in Starsky and Hutch. I wore bell-bottoms, had long sideburns, and sported a moustache.



After that, I cut the mop off and went more like the Disco look, a la Travolta.



After that, I went more conventional and looked average for most of my church ministry years other than I picked up a goatee.



Once I started to teach in the college scene I went to having a pony tail with a “V” under my lower lip. My kids thought that was cool.



Now it is a pony tail, long side-burns, a “V” and a “Foo-Manchu” moustache.



Go figure. Am I insecure?

[Genevieve]

I think it’s totally cool to change your look through the years (who hasn’t), and I think like Nate has been saying it’s great to be who you are and reach people where they are. Christians come in all clothing styles and are part of all subcultures.

What I don’t like is people feeling like they’re not good enough as they are, that they should change the way they look to be more pleasing to God. I don’t like people trying to be someone they’re not.

I really respect people like Sam’s daughters who are naturally part of the indie art subculture and can be themselves and reach people for Christ.

I guess in GC I worry that people aren’t making these outer changes because they personally want to but because they’re told they’ll be more effective or better if they do (like what Clone was saying above). I’m afraid people lose who they *really* are to fit an image, and I have a problem with that.

[nateswinton]

Gene,

I agree completely. I also think it’s very cool that Sam’s daughters are in the indie art “subculture”. I would even go so far as to say that it’s actually “cool”

As far as being concerned about motivations behind GC’ers changing, I think that’s always a real danger for anyone trying to be relevant. Definately not a uniquely GC issue, but more of a post-modern/emerging issue, if not even bigger. GC tends to be characterized as being more zealous than average, so whatever the rest of America’s churches are doing, good or bad, you’ll probably see some extreme examples of that in GC.

I do agree, though. I also am afraid that some people lose who they really are when trying to fit an image, and I also have a problem with that. I’ve also seen people trying to fit in to certain situations and were like a “rhino in a china shop”. Often it’s just best to be yourself.