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Author Topic: Concerned Mom and Dad about Freshman Daughter involved in Campus Fellowship  (Read 9772 times)
concernedmom
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« on: March 21, 2010, 03:58:41 pm »

Hi,
We are concerned parents. Our daughter is a college freshman and started attending bible study which she was very excited about. She was involved in our church youth group growing in jr/sr. high and did want to do a bible study. She did not want the partying scene which we were thankful for. But as we found out, the fellowship is held through a local GCC church. They also have on campus mid-week contempory services which she started going to. We noticed that there were older upper classman who were really inviting them to fellowship functions, etc.  and before we knew it she was telling us about Faithwalkers. We , not knowing much, but a little apprehensive, let her attend. She has really started to lose the balance in here college life it seems. She is a top student , on huge academic scholarship,and we are concerned. One of our sons called us this last week, while she was home on spring break and asked if we had noticed changes in her behavior. We had and had actually started checking on the web. That is how we found this forum. So after reading a lot of the topics on this forum site, we talked with her this last week. 

Still concerned, we shared info. we found out about GCC values/beliefs concerning parenting, wives being "submissive" to their husbands, spanking and other concerns. We have listened to a few of the recording from this last 2009 Faithwalkers and were troubled.

Any ideas or input from former college students or current that left the GCC church and campus fellowships would be appreaciated.

We are practicing Christians but feel the GCC mission/values and biblical doctrines are misquided.

Thanks for any input and ideas,
concernedmom  and dad
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Linda
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2010, 05:07:14 pm »

I am so sorry for what you are going through. One of the saddest things to me is that students who love God and aren't part of the party scene find themselves in GC at college, develop new friendships while away from home and are sucked in to the system. My thought is that most people in GC genuinely love the Lord, but in their formative years, they learned Christianity with a "twist". That "twist" involved loyalty to the group (GC) and submission to the elders in all matters (things like where to live, who to marry,etc., not just matters of Biblical truth) Since GC people are told that all the teaching they need is found in their local church, they don't know anything different, so the "twisted" thinking continues.

At one of the Faithwalkers talks last December, a dear Christian lady said these words while speaking to the Faithwalker women:
Quote from: Faithwalkers
But this is just a place where you can have your dreams realized as far as faith goes...and so if you get anything out of my message is [sic] you stay. You stay. You, and if you're not with us, come back and if you're wondering, "Is this who I want to be with," the answer is, "Yes." And, stay with us for the long haul. Okay. This is the place to get married. This is the place to raise your children.This is the safe place that's going to protect you and help you through all the very hard times. And, we're just one big family. And, so that is why I am thankful to be a Great Commission woman. You will be taught great truth. You will grow in humility.
I'm sure she had no idea how sectarian and wrong her words were. She was just passing on what she had been taught. However, it saddens me greatly that many young women heard that message and their parents had no idea that their children were taught that.

For the record, I did not find GC a safe place that protected me. I did find it a place that tried to put a wedge between me and my children. My experience with GC was life-changing and very bad. (But our family is all out of GC and doing well). PRAISE GOD!
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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2010, 08:35:37 pm »

Unfortunately among collage students the GCx church is very aggressive. Everything in life is boiled down to: "The Great Commission." The GC movement is not a big fan of collage education and never will be.  I heard a pastors wife commenting one day,"I think this culture's idol is education." They don't want educated followers, unless the motive of the student is the greater acquisition of wealth for the kingdom of God. However, they do love university towns where their predatory evangelism tactics can be implemented for maximum returns: "this is a business!"

As a former member of a campus ministry I saw many examples of kids becoming at odds with their parents. To ease these parents minds the ministry would throw an annual parents banquet at the GC church. The parents would come to church than be treated to dinner. The campus pastor would always give a little talk about how wonderful this ministry is, and how your child is doing something really important for God.

When I was in a GC campus ministry I scheduled my classes around group events to such an extent that I did not graduate with the degree that I had gone for! I have regrets now but at the time school was not that important to me. Now I watch in sadness as my brother repeats the same mistakes I made.
 
GCx campus ministries have spring break out reach trips, and summer long leadership training programs. Conferences happen to fall near holidays and weekends when the homework load is lightest. It can all become life consuming before you know it.

I know as a parent you might be tempted to panic when you hear all of this. Don't do it, I recommend you use a lot caution. I think it's very good that you talked to your daughter about it, but in the end she has to make her own choices. Right now she needs your support even if that means accepting this "church" as big part of her life. Their idealism and mission focus give a young person a place to channel their energy, similar to binge drinking....  hmm.

My advice is based on a lot of personal experience but it may not be best for your individual situation. If you think this group is causing her school work to suffer and especially if you have any financial role in her education you should talk about limiting involvement in the group. That is the goal Limit involvement. it is not telling her who she can and can't be friends with. Remember they are looking for people who will give them all of their time. If your daughter doesn't there is a good chance they will drop her like a hot potato and move on to the next freshman.

There really is a lot of turn over in most collage groups and she might be out sooner than you think. Pushing her to leave could only cause her stay longer or strain your relationship. Stay positive and interested in what she is learning and doing. Try not to be the bad guy, because they might be quoting Matthew 10:37  (He who does not hate father or mother is not worthy of me...) to her right now. After all to the GC church you are probably not saved. by the way, a word of fore warning, they may tell your child to witness to you and other family members. I wish someone could have warned all my extended family when my dad was saved: drama!  Smiley

I hope some of these thoughts help you, when I left my GCC church I thought I was turning away from God but I only found a bigger world of wonder and real peace and love in myself that I never felt before. I sincerely hope this experience will bring you and your daughter closer together in the end.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 08:41:07 pm by Captain Bible » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2010, 06:16:21 am »

I agree that she has to make her own choices, but some of those can be painful and leave lasting scars.  If she can leave without getting sucked in too deep, it would be much easier on all of you.  Without asking for too much personal information, here are a couple of thoughts:

-What did you talk with her about?
-Are you still on good terms with her, or have things deteriorated since she's been at this GC branch?
-How deeply involved is she?
-What does she really know about GC?  Has she read the church error statement and published writings on cultlike practices and GC?  Has she read some of the resignation letters, thoughts, and testimonies from people like Gregg Walters, Larry Pile, and Paul Willis?
-Does she still seem to care about her academic scholarship?
-Are there other Christian groups on campus that she could attend?
-Would she respond more to reaching out from her brother than you as parents?
-How much does she listen to and give respect to authority?  It may sound like a silly question, but my inherent disdain for authority helped me see through GC's authoritarian tendencies.
-And most importantly, why is she in this group?  It's a simple answer if you join a chess club or a bowling team.  It's more complicated when you choose one church versus another.

You don't have to share anything here if you don't want, those questions are more designed for you to take stock of the situation and determine how serious this really is.

-Immortal_Raven
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concernedmom
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2010, 06:30:30 am »

Thank you for all your input.  We have a great relationship with our daughter and she does great with her classes.  She has read a lot of the info. from this forum and now knows a lot more about GC. (things she was unaware of when invited to the campus group). So we feel she is aware of the church/campus ministry and will be able to make a decision based on that. She is very independent , hard working, and smart so we feel that with this information that she has read and with our discussion with her, all will be fine.

Thanks for all the input and support.
concernedmom and dad
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concernedmom
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2010, 06:34:07 am »

From concernedmom,

I will be deleting my account from the forum but my husband and I will continue to read any comments and keep aware of this forum.
Thanks to all again,

Have a nice day.
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2010, 03:20:12 pm »

Good work, parents! If she was willing to read the information you gave her and wasn't too defensive, then it sounds like she's on the right track. Best of luck to all of you!
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« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2010, 01:38:52 pm »

My experience of GCM took place a few years ago. I was involved for many years and all through my college years. This was my impression: education was not only not valued (including seminary education for those in vocational ministry), but it was sometimes spoken against, even in sermons. I was never encouraged to focus on studies (or seeing that as a part of my devotion to Christ) or to be careful of balancing that out by those who were supposed to be my spiritual mentors. What mattered was my devotion to the ministry of the church (as I was in leadership). I could go on and on about this, but there is plenty written on this forum to explain why. It is important for a Christian to be devoted to Christ, of course, but GCM has some unhealthy practices related to how they do discipleship, leadership, etc. etc. that need to be corrected. Unfortunately, because the organization is so "inbred" as another poster has mentioned, they don't change.

Interestingly enough, I saw a lot of hypocrisy too among some of the leaders and especially one leader in the church. He knew the system was not balanced, but didn't speak out about it.

I would try to steer your daughter to a ministry like RUF, or something like that.

In terms of the kind of education related-values and approaches to discipleship they have, I would look somewhere else.

God Bless you and your daughter! For what it is worth, I wrote this because I don't want your daughter to have to go through what I went through...Feel free to email me too...

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« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2022, 08:36:22 pm »


My guess is some parents and friends of college students may still come here baffled about strange changes in behavior they have seen as a result of their college child/ friend’s involvement in a GCx Church (though the name may have changed, the leaders’ and people’s roots are in Great Commission Churches or GCC, GCAC, CCN, GCM, GCI, and in some cases RELIANT Mission.) They may already be noticing them being less and less available for family time, which is subtly pressured by the group.

They are sadly in common company with hundreds and probably thousands of such parents. Most of GCx’s followers were originally recruited on college campuses. I would guess that is still the main recruitment pool for these “churches”. That is where they would be most vulnerable to become captive to their unhealthy shepherding/discipling and practices. This warning forum site is full of their damage to many of lives. The resulting negative impact on individuals’ view and understanding of God often disables their communication with Him and handicaps their faith. The recovery back is not quick.

Here are just a couple of former college students who were caught into their isolation and servanthood:



I was a part of two different GCMC/Collegiate churches. ... If you invited your friends to an event, then you definitely had worth. If you didn’t invite your friend, then you weren’t doing enough. You might have been singled out as “bad soil”. ... Going to LT was the most important thing you could do as a Christian. Internships, summer jobs, summer school....none of that compared. ...

I was caught up in pushing all of the church events for awhile, until I realized that I felt like I was just pressing people to go to events, so that we could get more people to go to events, so they could get more people at our events… It was less about knowing God and more about producing numbers. It was less about helping people follow Christ, and more about producing a person that could attract others to the church. I felt like people were valued based on what they could produce for the church, and not on being a child of God. It was honestly exhausting.

... What seems to cross a line is when those pastors/staff spend every Friday with the students. Then maybe they see them on Thursdays for small groups, and they saw them on Monday in the dorms, and again on Wednesday for Bible study.…etc. I am even more uncomfortable with staff and pastors who meet regularly with students and pry into their lives. Again, I can understand meeting up with a student who needs to talk about something from time to time. But I saw staff and pastors act like pseudo counselors. One pastor even told my friend not to pursue counseling because he and the church could handle her issues. She was dealing with issues of abuse in her life.

Students are supposed to be getting involved in clubs and organizations. They are supposed to be studying and making friends. They are supposed to be involved in research and school spirit. I do think it is good for them to be involved in church and church community. However, I am afraid that [GCX] Collegiate churches often demand all of their time which prevents them from exploring different things in college.

When I was a student, I was involved in other campus activities for awhile. I had a cool campus job for a few hours a week, and I did different clubs and attended sporting events. Over time, all of my time started going to the collegiate church. I felt that’s what I had to do. That was the behavior that was rewarded and encouraged. I let go of all my friends who were not part of Collegiate. I could still “pray for them and invite them things”, but spending time with them was seen as a negative thing.

My best friends became staff/pastors that were 10 years older than me. Over time, something else started to happen. The pastors/staff would switch from being my buddies, to being my behavior watch dogs. ... Those relationships became very unhealthy very quickly. ...

I must admit that I did some of the things I am talking about. As an older student and for a bit after I graduated, I pried into students lives, and I demanded too much time and energy from students. I treated some students like projects, and I was hard on them. I am glad that I am out of the church and that I am able to see the negative things I did. I have tried to apologize to former students for these things. Part of why I joined this forum was to try to make some amends for being part of these unhealthy churches for so long.

-2c57,  2017



I used to go to a gcmc/collegiate campus church (an h2o) [GCx H2O Church]. It took me a while to see the warning signs. They've convinced themselves they're different and aren't like the churches on here, but I experienced a lot of what is on here.

...oversharing is rampant in Collegiate/GCM. Tons of emphasis on getting people to share their sins, and by them sharing, and in this case being very flippant about egregious sin, they can get 20 year-old guys to share their sins with each other and the staff. This helps build community, which ultimately is how they "secure commitments" as they would say.

These men are sick. They create systems where they have power, and they run the "churches" how they want to. Once you become a pastor, you operate by a different set of rules, leaving behind a trail of victims in your quest to "make disciples," aka get more people in your church. As they say, you can't pass on what you don't have, and very few of these men have dealt with their emptiness, so they're driven by a desperation success to feed their egos rather than by love of God and others.
  
-tsessef,  2017




Links to their full posts:

http://forum.gcmwarning.com/hellos-and-testimonies/collegiate-campus-church/msg14267/#msg14267



« Last Edit: October 05, 2022, 09:12:11 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2022, 09:02:47 pm »


To Concerned Parents & Friends of College Students:

Here are a few resources to start. Instead of accusing the actual group to your student (which may alienate you further), you could suggest one or more of these as printed resource for awareness in picking any good Christian Group or Church. “Cult-Proofing Your Kids” is actually a resource for the concerned parent written by a former member of GCx Churches.



Identifying Toxic Churches and Leaders

http://forum.gcmwarning.com/the-healing-forum/identifying-toxic-churches-and-leaders/



From Probe Ministries - Abusive Churches

https://probe.org/abusive-churches/



Link to Book, Cult-Proofing Your Kids

https://www.google.com/search?q=cult+proofing+your+kidsby+paul+Martin&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS741US741&oq=cult+proofing+your+kidsby+paul+Martin&aqs=chrome..69i57.18029j0j4&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8



You Might be in a Cult - Avoiding Cult Thought  (2:24 min)

https://youtu.be/B_fDxj2Rj3k



« Last Edit: October 05, 2022, 09:06:39 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2022, 03:53:35 pm »

Mark Darling highly encouraged me not to attend higher education at the University of Minnesota. His kid went off to college, mind you. That was OK. Jeromy went off to school and learned software and did IT. He’s a pretend Catholic and actor now.

I find it hilarious now why I listened to Evergreen leadership. Mark Bowen, Ken Johnson, and a host of others either graduated from Iowa. I still went off to college but again, higher education was highly highly discouraged from the pulpit.

-Blonde
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2022, 09:02:52 pm »

Blonde,

As I was thinking about the careless and parroted harmful things that were told by many a GCX leader while claiming “this was God’s will” and ‘they were God’s mouthpiece’ in guiding members personal lives; I realized in any healthy denominational church (with healthy accountability) they would have all been Fired! No truly wise, mature and humble leader is going to claim a position that only God can fill. That takes a lot of arrogant audacity or plain stupidity to direct people in such monumental and personal decisions. There is a scripture below I read just this morning that actually reveals what God says about that:


Behold, I am against the prophets,” declares the LORD, “who use their tongues and declare,
 ‘The Lord declares.’
“Behold, I am against those who have prophesied false dreams,” declares
the LORD, “and related them and led My people astray by their falsehoods and reckless boasting; yet I did not send them or command them,
nor do they furnish this people the slightest benefit
,” declares the LORD.

Jeremiah 23:31-32


I know of others who were detrimentally mis-guided by some of these men who were actually talking like fools. They couldn’t possibly have used their own mind - they just copied what some other leader foolishly told them.


Thus says the LORD of hosts,
            “Do not listen to the words of the prophets who are prophesying to you.
            They are leading you into futility;
            They speak a vision of their own imagination
,
            Not from the mouth of the LORD.

Jeremiah 23:16


I am SO sorry you were irresponsibly and thoughtlessly counseled in your higher education by your “pastor/elder.” They would have never wanted for their own children the kind of reckless life guidance that suited the immediate need of the founder, his leaders, and the prosperity of his organization; rather than the love and welfare of it’s members. That’s what church is really all about.


Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people,
especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Galatians 6:10



« Last Edit: November 06, 2022, 12:32:53 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2022, 09:28:49 am »

I'm glad you listened to your own good sense and went to college anyway. So much harm was done to so many by those in leadership.
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