Drake University Campus Fellowship

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[Linda]

Follower,
We are all busy. Very busy. All of us. You did a "drive by" and brought me into this discussion. Now, you want to leave without addressing the issues any further. How rude.

You have attempted to discredit my name and therefore my comments in your post. You have said things about me that are untrue.

Looking at the blogs, it's interesting to note that the same individuals are leaving negative comments on multiple forums: Linda, Agatha L'Orange, etc. I love you guys, but consider carefully who you are against or you may find yourself attempting to fight what God is doing. Mark 9:38-41

Since you referred to me by name and will not make correction and apologize, I want to make it perfectly clear that I have not posted about GC on multiple forums (I am not even aware of any other forums about GC, but would be interested in reading them.) (Apparently, FOC has time to search the blogosphere for comments made by "Linda" and assumes they are all me, but doesn't have much time to defend his/her comments here.)

You use the word "negative" to describe my comments. It is true. I do believe that some things people do and teach are bad. As I recall, Jesus referred to some religious leaders of his time as a "brood of vipers". Whoa, kind of negative, don't you think?

BTW, what you said about me is kind of negative. Also, it is untrue. Might even border on slander.

One thing I can assure you is that not all things people do in Jesus name are good things. Not everything that is bathed in prayer is good. Not everything spoken by pastors is good. Pastors/elders are no closer to God than you or me. Their authority is spiritual and limited. Not everyone who says he is a "pastor" or "elder" is truly a pastor or elder. Jesus made it clear that they are not to be our "masters". (See Matthew 23). Our guide is the Holy Spirit given to all believers. We are not to follow men.

Some men, in fact, are wolves in sheep's clothing. True spiritual leaders/pastors direct everyone to God and his sufficiency and supremacy. If a leader focuses on his church, his movement, or obedience to him, watch out. He is leading you astray.

I have more to say, but I'm pretty busy so it will have to wait.

[Captein]

Follower of Christ, I feel like I may have met you on Sunday. I didn't realize there were any currently active members of the DTC on this forum. It is interesting to note that your view of leadership, particularly that God chooses people to lead and that you should follow their direction, is in mild contradiction with Dan Rude's own sermon on leadership from this weekend. Lead by example was his central point, although the overall sentiment was more of an umbrella point that could be used to reinforce a variety of contrasting opinions, apparently including your own.

[jackhadin05]

Hi!
Linda precious a lot covered it (The conciseness ended up being impressive Linda!) so I don't have a whole lot to supply. In quick, remain away. The Drake campus fellowship can well seem edgy, cool, along with a extensive fun at really first, but it is a bait and change. They might possibly be in truth really legalistic and additionally definitely will offer guilt trips like you've did not experienced. I have friends whom go there who have experienced many emotional breakdowns because of this group's overbearing and also manipulative strategies.  I am attractive pretty sure there are really lots of fine Christian companies at simply Drake what kind of won't { need to monopolize each and every one of several your own spare time for church associated activities or maybe tell you whom you can easily and also can not date. Just about any alternative is a better alternative. Good good luck!

[Captein]

Are these dummy accounts a regular occurrence here?

[newcreature]

BTW, what you said about me is kind of negative. Also, it is untrue. Might even border on slander.

I see that Follower of GCx has been "too busy" to return for a month now. Perhaps he is too proud and arrogant to sincerely apologize for spreading lies and slander about you, Linda. Oh well, I didn't really expect to see a sincere apology from an indoctrinated GCx disciple.

Are these dummy accounts a regular occurrence here?

Captein, if you are referring to Jackhadin05's posts, I was guessing that English may not be his native tongue. He may be using a translation app as well. I also noticed an 'advertisement' post last week by an obscure poster, but that seems to have been removed by the moderator.

(Edit)

Hmm...

I just reviewed this particular thread from its inception and I saw that Jack's post is a re-worded copy of G-Prince's post from last year:

Hi!

Linda pretty much covered it (Your conciseness was impressive Linda!) so I don't have a lot to add. In short, stay away. The Drake campus fellowship might seem edgy, cool, and a lot of fun at first, but it is a bait and switch. They are actually extremely legalistic and will give you guilt trips like you've never experienced. I have friends who go there who have had multiple emotional breakdowns due to this group's overbearing and manipulative policies.  I'm sure there are many other fine Christian organizations at Drake that won't try to monopolize all your free time for church related activities or tell you who you can and can not date. Any option is a better option. Good luck!

[Linda]

Newcreature,

That is too weird about how it mimics GP's old post. Must be some weird sort of spam. At first I thought it was someone with English as their second language, but now it looks like it's just spam.

Just read Gene's old post. Makes me so sad to read. This is a group that is deceived in some basics of the faith and hurts men and women who sincerely want to put their trust in the Lord. Of course, the nature of deception is that people don't see it and the hurt continues.

I pray God will open eyes and that the men who have the power to change things will have the courage to stand up and do so.

[Captein]

Newcreature,

That is too weird about how it mimics GP's old post. Must be some weird sort of spam. At first I thought it was someone with English as their second language, but now it looks like it's just spam.

My guess is that someone is testing out a new program on us. It doesn't work very well.

[newcreature]

Just read Gene's old post. Makes me so sad to read. This is a group that is deceived in some basics of the faith and hurts men and women who sincerely want to put their trust in the Lord. Of course, the nature of deception is that people don't see it and the hurt continues.

I pray God will open eyes and that the men who have the power to change things will have the courage to stand up and do so.

You are right on target as usual, Linda. In fact, your post prompted me to read the GCx statement of weaknesses again. (By the way, last week was its 21st anniversary, but I doubt that they celebrated it.) I was specifically looking for the word "apostle" and the only mention of that word was in the reference to Acts 2:42, which was used to justify and prove GCx devotion to their cause.

You may have pointed this out elsewhere, but I just now discovered that they never disavowed their belief in their current-day apostleship. It has apparently morphed in name only so that apostles now go by the innocuous title of "national leaders." The Mormons have apostles too; at least they are honest about it. http://www.understandingmormonism.org/apostles_current

One primary teaching that was taught and re-taught at local and national settings was the story of King David taking the Ark back to Jerusalem (2 Samuel 6). "Did he have a good heart?" Yes. "Did he make progress?" Yes. "Did he succeed?" No, not at first. In fact, there was tragedy along the way because he did not do it God's way (using poles as instructed in the Law, Exodus 37 and 40). So, when he went back and did it the right way... Success!

Ergo, GCx was doing "it" the right way with apostles and elders and following Acts like no other church in the world had done for the past 20 centuries. It would be interesting to know if and how that passage is being taught nowadays.

[Janet Easson Martin]

Dear Drake Freshie and Stellan,

PRAY, PRAY, AND PRAY often that you and your family members do not get captivated by any group which has leaders in the GCx movement.   They have several different names such as Great Commission International, Great Commission Churches, and others that some on here are better at keeping up with than myself. They have to keep changing the names when the public starts to get informed.  

Anne Graham Lotz (Billy Graham's daughter and bible teacher) believes there are MANY False Teachers today.  This church has been listed in the sound book, Churches That Abuse.  Most christians don't really know the characteristics of false teachers and how to spot them, and so it is more common than most realize to get lassoed into them.

Today, I actually thought about an important question.  When did I decide to JOIN my Great Commission Church?   (mine was at the University of Maryland)   Answer, never really.  They just kept friending me by calling me unusually often, visiting whenever they wanted, and luring me to nearly every event (which was almost 5 x's a week).  I remember the first "church teaching" meeting as a new christian.  It was a little WEIRD, but this was all new to me.  I was green.  Green makes one ripe for the picking with GCx.  Then on top of that, I was away at college and about to graduate.  I had very few close friends there, and didn't stay in touch with the ones at home.  99% I continued going for the "amazing friendships" that were thrown at me.  I mean everyone wanted to be my friend.  Everyone SMILED at me.  Everyone SMILED period.  They became my new "warm safe place".  But their underlying principles of operation were not really apparent because I was GREATLY distracted by all the friendships.  It was these devious and deceptive principles that the very bible (they claimed so arrogantly to follow) CONDEMNED.  So, little by little, my own indepence and critical thinking skills, which every christian should have when listening to TEACHING, were lessened and eventually erroded along with my very FAITH (not my religion- my faith!)  

I am not saying the christian "friends" were bad.  They were just imitating and serving what they observed because they also were told it was in the name of FAITH.  I, too, became one of these "befrienders".  After all, the more people you brought to the church, clearly the more worth and value you had.  When you need acceptance - you go along to fit in, to be "loved" more.  So I also pretended instant friendships with any warm body who would come to church and especially to those who might give in to stay awhile.  We regularly got reminded and even reproved from the pulpit if we weren't "fruitful" - which meant bringing in the people.  The young single christian friends there WERE alot of fun and made my life FEEL secure.  But, lets face it, they weren't my best friends because they wanted to be, for friendship sake, but mostly because I was a badge on their shirt.  I do look forward to embracing these believers in heaven, but that is the only SAFE (to MY FAITH) place to hang with them because False Teaching will not be embraced there. They didn't mean to be so fake, it just became a way of life.  It is a captive lifestyle as the New Testament points out.  

Anyhow, a few "fake" and conditional friendships are not worth a life of captivity.  An easy way to test the friendship is to follow your own likes and dislikes, including what you do with your time, money, place of residence, AND where you worship.  Try out going to a different church for a little while and see if the friendship lasts.  Really concentrate hard on being true to yourself and doing what God has gifted you  at and see if you still receive encouragement and support.  And EVEN tell your new friend at GCx that you don't believe in committing to a church for life just for "testing" sake.  

Just a few funny bone thoughts to think about as you consider.

Janet

[stellan]

Hi Janet,
I just noticed your reply.  I have periodically been checking in on this website but unfortunately, most of the information is very foreign to me (i.e. prophet teachings, verses, etc.) Religion, especially organized, is not a big part of my life but I'm happy for all of you who truly "believe."  My concern is very basic:  As a mom of a child looking for comfort and belonging, it's terrifying to think this path may be exactly the opposite of what he's been yearning for.  Many of the stories posted here broke my heart. I actually would have to take breaks because I was so saddened and shocked by what I was reading.  I still wonder how members could be so mis-teated and manipulated......    I feel for all who were betrayed by the group and for all who suffered a separation from a family member due to pressure and over-devotion to the church leaders.  I hope my son chooses not to get involved with The Fellowship, for several reasons, (one being as simple as academics- good grades have been a struggle for him) but it is totally out of my hands.  Even questioning him about the reasons he wants to be part of this specific group, ends with a slightly bigger separation between us.     As I read the posts, and was paying attention to dates,  I started to feel like most of the problems with the Fellowship and church regarding their philosophy and twisted methods "were all in the past" involving leaders who are no longer around.   Maybe, I was trying to make myself feel better?  Does anyone know: Is it being monitored?; can it be?  Thank you for responding to my post, Janet,  and to all of you who have enlightened me about something I  was totally unaware of.     Sincerely, Stellan

[Linda]

As a mom of a child looking for comfort and belonging, it's terrifying to think this path may be exactly the opposite of what he's been yearning for.  Many of the stories posted here broke my heart.

I think you have articulated very clearly one of the main reasons that many of us continue to post on this site.

This group presents itself as something different. People think they have made lifelong friends without realizing that most GC friendships are conditional. There is a real closeness that people "feel" as long as they are in the group, but if you ever leave, poof, you are alone.

This is not Christianity. Christianity is a relationship with Jesus, not a lifetime commitment to a movement of men.

The issues of commitment to the group for life and obedience to self proclaimed ("recognized") leaders continue. This is not a healthy group.

There are many healthy Christian organizations on campus. This is not one of them.

[stellan]

Thank you Linda,

As I've said, I, myself am not religious but if my son finds a relationship with G-d and it fills an emptiness inside him, it would bring me much comfort, as well.

     I have not told him that I've been on this site, because it would be counter-productive.  I've heard through my son's own words (not verbatim, though) that any discouragement to join DCF is satan's way!  I don't want to push him further away but don't know how to advise him.
-
  All summer his thoughts were with this group (they did keep in touch, more than any other acquaintances ever had in the past.)  He didn't spend a lot of time at home, even when nothing else was going on; he preferred to go out for coffee by himself, rather than sitting and relaxing with us, for example.   I think, I ignorantly thought it was a growing up thing.

                                                                                                                                                                         In addition, we've had some big financial and health problems recently and paying out of state tuition for a student who I strongly suspect isn't even close to 100% committed to his grades, is another concern.  Last year, he said a lot of the problems with fulfilling homework requirements was due to him frequently being sick, along with some other reasons, that really don't make much sense.  Pushing the issue causes him to dis-engage and either walk away or just talk in circles, never really explaining why that could cause a D or F.   I have also been told by him, or over-heard him speaking of volunteering and doing things with the CF group.  It's not like I don't want him to "give," either.  I do!  I just want a healthy balance and definitely didn't send him out of state to learn and suddenly get very involved with religion; he could do that here, if that's what he wants to concentrate on.  I just can't get a good read and probably are trying to see things better than they really are.

-                                                                                         Many of the things on this site have convinced me there is a reason to e concerned  Is the other Christian group at Drake something I should mention to him? Does it pressure students to volunteer a lot, even when they really need to study?  I'm not sure if anyone is familiar with it, but I am going to look into it.  Unfortunately, as I've said before, I don't seem to have control over this new "pull" in his life, but still feel the need to watch over(?)  Refusing to pay his tuition is not a point I'm willing to go to, yet.   When you say the issues of commitment for life continues, are you referring to leaders currently at the Walnut Creek Church, as well as the Downtown Church?  I understand if that's too specific a question to ask you and am afraid, I already know the answer, anyway.  Not just from this post but from several others.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           I would have bet anything that my child and I could not be pulled a part so easily (by a Church group, even more astonishing!)  We've been through so much since his birth.  There were so many medical and social issues while he grew up and although it wasn't the most "fun" childhood, he sure knew he was loved, taken care of and lovingly given whatever we could give to help him grow independent and find the happiness he so deserves.  I was totally prepared for the distance that comes when a child goes to college but this seems much colder than what has happened with my older child and very different* than what I'd hear about other kids going away to college.

I'm starting to feel that given the choice between the Church and his family, he'd walk away from us.  I so want to be wrong. 

Thanks for all the information.  Stellan

*Different had been the usual with our family, when it comes to comparing,  so its taken a little longer for me to realize this is a worse type of different.



Ihave to quit right now so I apologize if things aren't clear-  thanks all.

[Linda]

Great Commission Churches teach commitment to the movement for life. "Plant your flag and die." This is taught by the national leaders at conferences like Faithwalkers.

Also, I don't think Drake has "out of state" tuition. Maybe I am incorrect on this. Just was hoping someone wasn't taking you for some $$.

[Anonymous]

This group presents itself as something different. People think they have made lifelong friends without realizing that most GC friendships are conditional. There is a real closeness that people "feel" as long as they are in the group, but if you ever leave, poof, you are alone.

I cannot emphasize this enough. You have close friends - as long as you want to stay within GCC.

Anyhow, a few "fake" and conditional friendships are not worth a life of captivity.  An easy way to test the friendship is to follow your own likes and dislikes, including what you do with your time, money, place of residence, AND where you worship.  Try out going to a different church for a little while and see if the friendship lasts.  Really concentrate hard on being true to yourself and doing what God has gifted you  at and see if you still receive encouragement and support.  And EVEN tell your new friend at GCx that you don't believe in committing to a church for life just for "testing" sake.

You have no idea how much this has been on my mind over the past few weeks. Thank you for clearly articulating reasons I have been incredibly frustrated over this time.

[stellan]

Linda,

You are absolutely right.
I was in a rush and experienced "brain typo."
What I meant when I incorrectly typed "out of state tuition" was that Drake is a private school and more expensive than many good schools in our state.  Having his heart set on Drake, we managed to make it work.  Now, his enthusiasm for Drake seems to be shifting to The Drake Fellowship.

Thanks.  Stellan

[Janet Easson Martin]

I agree with what Linda post above (reply #30).  Well stated, Linda.

[Neverbeengcm]

If you want to hve every day of your life scheduled for you...this is the group for you.

If you want to have someone tell you what to think...this is the group for you.

If you believe that men deserve to be treated with more respect than women...this is group for you.

If you believe that the church is more important than God...this is the group for you.

If you believe that people should be judged and labeled...this is the group for you.

If you believe that religious and personal freedoms are not important...this is the group for you.

If you enjoy have your mind subtly and directly brainwashed on a daily basis...this is the group for you.

Good luck.  I will pray for you that you are able to choose wisely and for all the others who have been trapped in the pergatory called the Great Commission.

[Janet Easson Martin]

Stellan,

I just reread some of your posts this evening and wanted to write a quick note.  My internet service rarely worked this fall so I haven't read anything since the summer.  But I wanted to tell you first of all how great a mom you are to see this new "estranging" behavior as something "strange" happening to your son, rather than taking it personally yourself, and feeling rejected from him alone.  It is the 'group thinking' that rejects those who don't want to be part of them, enthusiastically support them, or disagrees with any "system code" they hold high.  I started spending less and less time with my family the more I got involved in this church.  I realized later that was NOT God's plan for me, especially since I did it to get APPROVAL from "men" and not God.  My mother's love for me was amazing.  She prayed for me a LOT, privately of course, and so did other relatives and caring friends.  So much so, that God actually turned that tragedy of isolating myself with my "toxic" church into such a blessing of healthy revelation of false christianity and encouragement that I could not keep it to myself!  Only he can take a slow ground-bound worm in a dark likfeless cacoon and turn it into a brightly-colored, quickly-flighted, lightly-spirited butterfly.  I have had much joy in encouraging others who were or are currently in such a similiar plight.  This type of captive persuasion is not from God; and seems to be something only God can deliver from.  There is a "power" stronger than man that pulls them away.  BUT GOD can set them free!  (1 Corinthians 10:4)  God turns ALL suffering into BEAUTIFUL DELIVERANCES AND JOY, just like he does for a mother in labor, if we actively trust him.  I will pray for you and your son.  And I'm sure so will many others reading your "posts" here.

Blessings To You,

Janet Easson Martin