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Author Topic: Faithwalkers 2010 (Or Faithwalkaz, as I like to call it)  (Read 56549 times)
MarthaH
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« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2010, 03:14:41 pm »

Concerned4fam noticed that part 1 of the "Cost of Discipleship" message was not posted. This may be due to technological problems which sometimes arise as they do most of their recordings in-house. It could be oversight. It may be that the message crossed a few lines that even GCx wouldn't want on record. Given the topic and the speaker, it wouldn't be surprising (but again, that is speculative). Another reason may be that the speaker didn't want his message published on-line for concern of persecution, which is a factor as to why none of the messages at the Walnut Creek website are ever put online.
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2010, 03:37:26 pm »

Martha, I wondered the same thing.  I'd like to see Tim Rude "man up", so to speak.  WHAT are they hiding by not posting sermons?  If there is nothing to hide or be ashamed of, where are the posts?  This is reminiscent of Scientology and how they kept their teaching secret for so many years.  Why?  Because they knew it was weird and wouldn't be accepted.  Walnut Creek teaches some pretty crazy stuff and they don't want it out there to get analyzed.  Pretty different from John Piper, Charles Swindoll, John MacArthur, Billy Graham, Mark Driscoll (ugh), Billy Sunday, John Wesley, Hudson Taylor, CS Lewis, and many many many teachers throughout the centuries.

If I were a parent, I would not want my children going to a church that won't post the sermons online when they have the ability and ESPECIALLY if every other person at a conference has.  What are they hiding?  My guess it is of a sensitive nature as they had several high profile people in the church leave.  By the way, I am so glad they left and are free now!
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Alibi
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« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2010, 03:43:20 pm »

Concerned4fam noticed that part 1 of the "Cost of Discipleship" message was not posted. This may be due to technological problems which sometimes arise as they do most of their recordings in-house. It could be oversight. It may be that the message crossed a few lines that even GCx wouldn't want on record. Given the topic and the speaker, it wouldn't be surprising (but again, that is speculative). Another reason may be that the speaker didn't want his message published on-line for concern of persecution, which is a factor as to why none of the messages at the Walnut Creek website are ever put online.


I agree with all of your reasons behind Tim Rude's message not being online. Only few messages are online so far and they might add all other messages later. One thing I noticed today is that they even they took off the message from main session V by Rick Whitney.

From Martha's post: "Given the topic and the speaker, it wouldn't be surprising (but again, that is speculative). Another reason may be that the speaker didn't want his message published on-line for concern of persecution, which is a factor as to why none of the messages at the Walnut Creek website are ever put online."

Jesus and apostles were persecuted for preaching the truth. Abusive churches bring much of their negative press because of their own action. and all oppositions to these actions are persecution.
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LucyB
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« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2010, 03:57:04 pm »

Some of the other Walnut Creek speakers are posted on line. Becky Crane, for example, begins with a strong affirmation that God loves us and wants us to be honest about who we are. She talks about our need for relationships and the importance of staying with our relationships. Then she oddly shifts gears. She ends by asking the listeners to evaluate their relationships to determine if those friends are valuable in their striving type of pursuit of God, and encourages the listeners to demand that their friends come to church with them as a condition of friendship. When this type of instruction comes from the leadership, one can only imagine the tenuous nature of relationships.
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2010, 04:18:56 pm »

Quote
I agree with all of your reasons behind Tim Rude's message not being online. Only few messages are online so far and they might add all other messages later. One thing I noticed today is that they even they took off the message from main session V by Rick Whitney.


Anybody listen to Rick Whitney's talk?  I wish I would have and transcribed it.  I can't believe that they took it down.  Are we getting through?

If you heard Rick W's talk or if you were there and heard Tim's talk, would you care to post what you heard?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 04:21:02 pm by AgathaL'Orange » Logged

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Linda
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« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2010, 04:26:44 pm »

I have it on my iPod and listened to part of it. I remember a comment he made that astonished me about how for the last 40 years he has lived with a slob and a grumpy person. I assume he meant his wife. It was really offensive. I guess his point was how he had died to himself in spite of his wife's faults. I'll listen again, take notes, and get back to you all with my "review". Smiley

My general opinion is that when leaders come on heavy with the death to self talk, they really want you to die to yourself so that you will do what they want you to do.
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MarthaH
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« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2010, 04:28:18 pm »

Some of the other Walnut Creek speakers are posted on line. Becky Crane, for example, begins with a strong affirmation that God loves us and wants us to be honest about who we are. She talks about our need for relationships and the importance of staying with our relationships. Then she oddly shifts gears. She ends by asking the listeners to evaluate their relationships to determine if those friends are valuable in their striving type of pursuit of God, and encourages the listeners to demand that their friends come to church with them as a condition of friendship. When this type of instruction comes from the leadership, one can only imagine the tenuous nature of relationships.

I haven't listened to the message, but that statement of determining valuable friendships is truly indicative of the problem within GCx. At the initial level, you matter to the extent that you follow the plan and respond to the invitation to events and church (where you are initially showered with so much love). You are valuable if you respond to the message of the gospel. Phase 2 is that you are valuable if you continue to propagate the message and become a co-worker. I can think of so many people who have been hurt by these phony friendships that are conditional to their buying into the program! That is actually a tactic of mind control - withdrawing friendship in order to manipulate a result (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milieu_control). No wonder so many people give testimonials at baptisms that credit friendships of others over the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit!

Another outworking of that philosophy is that it actually causes you to withdraw from society. How ironic, considering that Scripture and the Holy Spirit empower us to interact with the world and they (GCx) keep telling us to reach the world. I have always sensed that they subtly teach an isolationism by having you break off ties with former friends and family if they don't buy into what you now believe, even if your friends and family are Christian! Then you cannot build long-lasting relationships with non-believers that give a steady witness to the power of God in your life because you don't have time for relationships. You are at meetings or events or Bible studies or serving 5 evenings of the week, and the weekend is reserved for the sports outreach and church.

Thanks for the post, Lucy.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 04:48:22 pm by MarthaH » Logged
AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2010, 05:10:00 pm »

Thanks to the anonymous little elf who sent me Rick's talk.  When I figure out how to post it I will.  Thanks, everybody!
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2010, 07:22:27 pm »

Whoa, really?  How did you find that out?
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2010, 07:48:51 pm »

Quote from Rick W on the Rick and Rory talk (on loyalty), "The new testament church was cultlike".  Meaning if people think that GC is cultlike, it's because that's the right way to be, just like the New Testament church.
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2010, 08:31:49 pm »

Oh no worries  Smiley , I actually thought it could be either way, and should have said that.  I was not communicating clearly!  I will have to listen to it, now that I have the file.  I started earlier, but got caught up in other things.

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nelliepooh
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« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2010, 09:37:35 pm »

I am glad I never went to one of these confrences.  I have a hard time trying to listen to a message when it isnt about what they were going to talk about and goes off on tangent and then thrw in Bible verses that don't apply and change them to fit their desired meaning.  There are messages posted online for the downtown church.  I listened to one once from a young man who said he believed huricane katrinahappened because of sin.  I want to hear both Tim and Dan and Megan Rude's messages.  I got the same feelings as others have said about Becky Crane's message, she started off ok but then it got to be off track and legalistic about friendships and relationships.
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« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2010, 10:31:53 pm »

Some of the other Walnut Creek speakers are posted on line. Becky Crane, for example, begins with a strong affirmation that God loves us and wants us to be honest about who we are. She talks about our need for relationships and the importance of staying with our relationships. Then she oddly shifts gears. She ends by asking the listeners to evaluate their relationships to determine if those friends are valuable in their striving type of pursuit of God, and encourages the listeners to demand that their friends come to church with them as a condition of friendship. When this type of instruction comes from the leadership, one can only imagine the tenuous nature of relationships.

With messages like these coming from leadership, it's no wonder that people in the church can say and do contradictory things and justify it to themselves. Dropping relationships because people stop attending your church is justified because you only need to stay faithful to relationships with people in the church. You should only be friends with people within your local church because they are the only ones that are truly following the Lord. I am disappointed that somebody as influential as a pastor's wife could share such a deceiving message. I wonder if she really believes this is the truth or if she is saying these things to influence young women to not form close friendships with people outside the church?
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MarthaH
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« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2010, 11:33:35 pm »

The whole rules for relationships that Mrs. Crane gave went from relationships with friends to a purity talk around the 55 minute mark. Funny, the seminar description didn't mention a purity talk. Probably because they don't have any rules on dating  Roll Eyes

If I were still a non-Christian, I would invent a drinking game where you had to take a swig every time you heard the words "purity" or "evangelism." The Mark Darling version would use the word "suffer".  Cheesy
Of course I'm kidding!!!

It's gonna take at least a case of beer to make it through the sessions tomorrow. Wish I would have thought of this when I actually used to attend the conference...JUST KIDDING! Lighten up already!!
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Linda
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« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2010, 08:47:28 am »

Rick Whitney, at the 20 minute mark:

"It's hard to live with people. Perhaps it's a roommate, or even your spouse. Over these many years, I have lived with a very, very messy roommate. For almost 40 years, an incredibly messy roommate. Do you live with a roommate who is grumpy all the time? I do. Oh, Lord, forgive me. Who clams up and never wants to talk? I do. Do you live with a roommate who just doesn't want to seem to carry their weight? Tell me about it. Listen, I feel your pain. The problem with people is that people can be a problem sometimes."

When I heard this, my jaw hit the floor. A pastor tells hundreds of people gathered at a national conference that his wife is messy, grumpy, never wants to talk, and doesn't carry her weight. This is astonishingly thoughtless and rude. This is not how you cherish your wife.

Ephesians 5: "Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,  so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.  For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body."
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nelliepooh
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« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2010, 09:20:44 am »

Anyone catch in rw's speach how he taled about this confrence in indiana I think in february and all he said was to talk about it with their church and leaders, no mention of family and parents.
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Linda
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« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2010, 09:39:53 am »

He also made reference in it to a previous talk (guessing the Rude message) where they talked about the church having enemies.

Rick's conclusion: The biggest enemy to the church is people. And, I thought it was Satan...oops, I capitalized Satan...
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Innerlight
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« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2010, 10:43:17 am »

Hi All,

Been awhile, but I figured there would be much said about Faithwalkers, and I was correct in my assumption.

on a serious note...
Luther's contemporary, Melanchthon, said:  "In essentials, unity, in non-essentials, liberty.  In all things, charity".  a helpful thing to remember.

on the lighter side...
some of this reminds of Star Wars, when the Jedi council decides who is "in" i.e. can be trained (the rigorous training of the Jedi), and sadly, who cannot be trained (given to worry, fear, the dark side), and must be cast off..... 

THANK GOD FOR GRACE!!!!

Please don't jump on me about Star Wars, I realize it's full of new age nonsense, but they are very good movies. 
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wastedyearsthere
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« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2010, 11:26:49 am »

Rick Whitney, at the 20 minute mark:

"It's hard to live with people. Perhaps it's a roommate, or even your spouse. Over these many years, I have lived with a very, very messy roommate. For almost 40 years, an incredibly messy roommate. Do you live with a roommate who is grumpy all the time? I do. Oh, Lord, forgive me. Who clams up and never wants to talk? I do. Do you live with a roommate who just doesn't want to seem to carry their weight? Tell me about it. Listen, I feel your pain. The problem with people is that people can be a problem sometimes."

Maybe she is grumpy because of being "stuck" in a marriage with him?!!!  I would be grumpy.  So, they aren't divorced but you can see a picture on what a great marriage they have..........
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LucyB
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« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2010, 11:56:49 am »

Rick Whitney, at the 20 minute mark:

"It's hard to live with people. Perhaps it's a roommate, or even your spouse. Over these many years, I have lived with a very, very messy roommate. For almost 40 years, an incredibly messy roommate. Do you live with a roommate who is grumpy all the time? I do. Oh, Lord, forgive me. Who clams up and never wants to talk? I do. Do you live with a roommate who just doesn't want to seem to carry their weight? Tell me about it. Listen, I feel your pain. The problem with people is that people can be a problem sometimes."

Publicly humiliating your spouse is domestic abuse. This movement is teaching and modeling domestic abuse. There are many abusive marriages in this church. When I was attending Walnut Creek, an elder said from the pulpit, "Divorce is an easy way out."

Divorce is NOT an easy road, but nobody should tolerate domestic abuse. It is only a matter of time before it leads to physical violence.

How rampant is domestic abuse in this movement? Will they come to Neva's defense and sanction Rick publicly, or will they just leave her under the bus by herself?

Sadly, the answer is pretty obvious.
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