Faithwalkers 2011

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[blonde]

Faithwalkers 2011: BLESSED!

December 27-30, CenturyLink Center-Omaha, Nebraska. Nothing in the world compares to the life that belongs to followers of Jesus Christ. Few Christians live and experience a life that can honestly be called “blessed.” Knowing, believing, and laying hold of our blessings in Christ is essential to a faith that will sustain us through the years. Join us for four life-changing days as we discover together the incredible joys and rewards of being a Christian. Find out more and register online at faithwalkersmidwest.com.

[AgathaL'Orange]

As usual I get an odd thrill for this.  Why?  I have no idea.  I think it's because every. single. year. I find that I am not actually nuts, and they really are a controlling, dangerous group.  I feel sorry for the people still involved, and I wish they would stop as an organization.  But, it sure is nice to look at it from the outside and not the inside. 

By the way, I hope everyone here is having a lovely Christmas season.  I feel like I've been away so much lately from here.  I'm not really moving on.  It's just that thankfully so many good friends we had in the movement actually LEFT THE MOVEMENT this year!  PTL.  I am so happy about this, and find myself much less preoccupied with the goings on.  However, "Faithwalkazzz" always gets me a bit excited.  I think it's a nice break after all of the post Christmas mellow.  I guess by that time I'm ready for a little harsh for my mellow?

[EverAStudent]

Thread highjacking alert.......

I cannot stand the "Christmas Season," Agatha.  I will not wish you a Merry Christmas or a Season's Greeting.  Would you settle for a "Happy Incarnation Day" instead?

Blessings.

We now return control of this thread back to its originally intended purpose...

[Linda]

Huh?

[AgathaL'Orange]

Happy winter, Ever a Student.   

[EverAStudent]

Arghhhhhhh

Agatha you actually have a bit of sarcasm in you after all 

And a Happy Incarnation Day to you Agatha.

[MidnightRider]

"Incarnation Day" is surely the wrong term. Christ became incarnate about 9 months earlier than the day He was born.

[lone gone]

It's the Winter Solstice... which is a scientific/astronomical term. It means that the sun will set later each day and spring is on the way.  As a sufferer of SAD ( Seasonal Affected Disorder)  I rejoice that this is so.

I wish everyone a wonderful Winter Solstice.

[Captain Bible]

Merry Christmas everybody! Good old faithwalkerzzz, I think they should add pyrotechnics this year!   and Lasers, LOTS OF LASERS!!!!

(fictional Faithwalkerz promo): by Trans Siberian Orchestra http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR3CKEC3lbs&feature=player_embedded
 

[blonde]

I am not sure if anyone knows, or if it matters, but Mark Darling was the brain-child of FaitheWalkers.  It is like a re-done LT.  It keeps him in the lime-light and matter of fact, he is always the first to speak and last speaker at the conferances.  A very proud man that Mark Darling is. 

[MarthaH]

Does anyone have access or know where to get teachings of Faithwalkers 2004? It was the first year, I believe. A person discipling me gave me CD's to listen to from the conference back in the day. They are not on the web. There were many references to McCotter from people that year. Anyhow, I'm trying to gain some closure and working through those teachings would help. If anyone has them or could post them online, let me know.

[Linda]

I'm pretty sure they are systematically removing some of the worst talks from the web. I have that one someplace in my files. McCotter was there and they made mention of him. That is also the one, I believe, where they began the teaching of likening your commitment to your local church as the same as a marriage and talked about leaving your local church as being similar to divorcing your wife. Rick Whitney also joked and said maybe when people joined the church they should cut their arms and become blood brothers for life or something like that.

It was 2 months later, at an all church event called "Fanning the Flame" where Mark Darling talked about the same thing. Then, the following summer, he taught lifetime commitment to GC at an HSLT our daughter attended. That was the final straw. That HSLT message was the one that was taken down and Mark Darling wrote us a letter in March saying he should not have said that. As far as I know, though, no public correction has been made of that teaching nor have any of the students at that HSLT been contacted with a correction of a pretty significant error. They have the list of who attended. They could make an attempt.

Certainly, they could make a bold and public correction on their web page.

I will try to find quotes from that Faithwalkers.

[EverAStudent]

...where they began the teaching of likening your commitment to your local church as the same as a marriage and talked about leaving your local church as being similar to divorcing your wife.

That specific teaching (joining a GC church is spiritually equivalent to marrying the church and leaving it is the sin of "divorcing") was rolled out from the National Elders to the local elders in 1984.  I remember the rollout event well. 

The entire local church was told to go on "retreat" together, camping in the woods.  We were given this teaching on Sunday morning as having been handed down directly from the National Elders (meaning Jim and his syncopants).  We were all then individually called upon by name to voice our verbal agreement to be committed to GC for life. 

My wife and I were the only two who declined to voice such agreement.  I had the audacity to ask the junior elder what he would do if GC ever began teaching blatant heresy (without even knowing that the apostleship heresy was already in the draft stage) and would he consider heresy to be grounds for "divorce" given his lifetime committment pledge.  He just said, "I trust Jim that such a thing would never happen, but either way my wife and I would never leave these brothers." 

We left for a Baptist church shortly after that.  The junior elder left about a year and a half later, having been forced out by the National Elders for mishandling the church and not giving in to the National Elders' oversight more willingly during a church split.  So much for "loyalty to the brotherhood."

[MarthaH]

Actually, I found one of the messages on a GCX site. Thank you to whomever posted it:
http://gcxweb.org/Audio/The%20Great%20Commission%20Story-Martindale%20Whitney%20Clark-12-28-2004.mp3

I think the one I was thinking of was a main session where Rick Whitney made overtures to Jim McCotter to come back and join them. This fact was denied and "spun" when I approached leadership. I would say that it is a fact that in 2004 there was no remorse for the practices supposedly apologized for in the weakness paper and I would say little had changed.

Anyhow, if you can post any other messages and give me a link, that would be great. One last thank you to everyone on the forum. Thanks to everyone who ever wrote me and helped me out!

[Linda]

MarthaH, I know the one you are talking about. I pulled out our huge black briefcase with all of our documentation and found my notes from that talk. He does give a shout out to Jim and I'm pretty sure it's in that talk.

It is interesting that they have never publicly corrected the bad teaching of Mr. McCotter. They just repeat the mantra: "Jim is not around anymore so we are different now."

In the talk you linked I found this interesting:

I used to ask my brothers, I'd say, "You know, Jim [McCotter]. Why when somebody leaves our movement.. Why when somebody leaves.. Why is there such a big to-do? and why is this so painful? And why is this hurting us so much? And why is there such a.. you know, throwing back and forth, throwing stuff at each other and- ah- I remember my brother turning to me. . . [and saying] "You don't understand, we're doing something that is from God. And it's holy. It's a painful thing to leave the family of God."

What he basically says here is that "Leaving the movement is leaving the family of God!"

OK, so here are the notes I have from the talk where he mentions Jim being there. I'll just type what I wrote.

My notes from Rick Whitney's Faithwalkers 2004 talk on commitment:

You might say to yourself, "Look, I'm loyal to my church," but have I told my friends, my brothers, my sisters, "I  will be with you to the end."

For 30 years men have not sought me out and whispered into my ear about one problem in this movement. (Must have forgotten the Bill Taylor fiasco.)

Although we might be separated, there's never been a rupture, and there's never been a tearing, and there's never been a walking. (Whoa, what!)

God wants us to be loyal forever, for the long haul, for the rest of our life WITH OUR CHURCH.

Find the people of God that you are convinced God wants you to be with and stay and die with them forever. Be careful though in the finding. (Good point. )

I remember I was a young Christian. I remember why when someone left our assemblies, our families, our church. And someone will, and someone has, and someone may...God forbid, here. (Hang on a second, I thought he just said there had never been a walking. Oops, must have forgotten. Or, perhaps they were running and not walking. )

Well, when people have left, they've said things, why, and I remember Jim turning to me and he said, "Rick, you don't understand, obviously you don't understand, Rick."

Understand what? Tired of people throwing pot shots at us. He said, "Rick, we're doing something incredibly noble and it's of God and we're building families for our Savior, We're doing something unique. It should be painful, God forbid it is not painful when ones leave."

The single biggest decision you will make as a Christian that will determine your success as a believer is whether you will commit to your brothers and sisters FOR LIFE.

Gives an example of a wedding.

You know, we ought to just pull out the papers and we ought to just sign on the dotted line. I don't think I have any Indian in my blood, but i was thinking well, we need to get a nice knife..remember that scene in Robin Hood where he goes like that...

[Grounded]

I was at that conference and the three after that. The mantra was basically the same every year. I remember Rick (Who I new well, been to his house a number of times and went to college with his kids. He is a genuinely good man, I just don't agree with GC philosophy any more.) He talked a lot about McCotter and the early days. He was catering to McCotter during that teaching. I wondered while I was sitting there, why the GC directors were basically recruiting McCotter when he left the movement because he did not share the same vision any more and wanted to create a business empire. He did not leave on the best of terms. I thought it was odd.

[Linda]

Grounded, was that the first Faithwalkers? Did you see McCotter there? My memory of the message is that Whitney mentions that McCotter is standing in the back, or something like that. Did McCotter address the group at any point?

Interesting that you mention them "recruiting" McCotter after he left. I have had a thought in the back of my head that perhaps around this time (mid-2000's) they were thinking of asking McCotter to come back and then gcmwarning hit and they couldn't. No specific reason why I have thought that other than the many references to the old days and him showing up at an early Faithwalkers. Has he been to any more? Anyone know?

If you look at the national board, you will see that there is no new blood. I think all of the men on it sat at McCotter's feet. Actually, two of them were there from the beginning. Clark is on the board and he co-wrote Leadership:Elders and Apostles with Jim. No one has ever corrected the errors that fill that book. No one has ever distanced themselves from McCotter's teaching and replaced it with sound teaching. They just say, "McCotter isn't here and if you are having a problem it's because you don't realize that."

Also, they refer to him always as "Jim". Just plain Jim. It's like they don't want to give out his last name or people might Google!

Were you there when McCotter left? It is so odd that with all the lifetime commitment/loyalty talk, Whitney even says things like, "I won't be loyal to men who aren't loyal," that he welcomes McCotter, the man who left to pursue business and did not plant his flag and die.

Something's fishy.

I do think that most of the GC elders are sincere men who love the Lord. My take is that early in their Christian walk, the Devil put some very bad ideas in their heads and now they are blinded. I pray that they will see.

[newcreature]

If you look at the national board, you will see that there is no new blood. I think all of the men on it sat at McCotter's feet. Actually, two of them were there from the beginning. Clark is on the board and he co-wrote Marching to Zion with Jim. No one has ever corrected the errors that fill that book. No one has ever distanced themselves from McCotter's teaching and replaced it with sound teaching.

Excellent points, Linda.

I also supplied links to the document you mentioned as well as the document I believe you meant to reference. Just in case someone new is reading this forum and wants to check out the core beliefs of GCx, here is the link to "Leadership: Elders and Apostles" by Jim McCotter and Dennis Clark. http://gcxweb.org/Books/Leadership/

It was published nearly 30 years ago, but I believe its doctrine lives on in the hearts of all the current so-called "apostles." I was around in the 80's when they rolled out the book and took a vote of all the local church leaders at a national conference. The three "apostles" were officially "recognized" and the goal of worldwide evangilism would finally be accomplished since GCx was the only church on the face of the earth (according to the leaders) that was truly following God's plan. Now they call themselves board members, national leaders, pastors, etc. to deflect the criticism of the past. http://www.gccweb.org/about/gcc-board/

The other document you mentioned, "Marching to Zion," was written by Larry Pile. It is an excellent compilation of the early history and leadership of GCx. It is often refered to as M2Z and it documents the GCx travesty of justice surrounding Bill Taylor's excommunication, as well as other egregious errors that sprang from GCx doctrine. Here is the link: http://gcxweb.org/Books/MarchingToZion/

I may call Larry again to get his take on the recent reconciliation GCx proclaims to have made with Bill Taylor. I called Larry a few years ago and he is a very thoughtful and insightful man. At the end of M2Z he published his contact information for anyone who is interested in talking with him. I was glad I called him two years ago. Here is his contact info:

Lawrence A. Pile
32438 McGinnis Road
Albany, Ohio 45710-9028
Phone: 740-698-2800

[wastedyearsthere]

I was in the church when Jim left.  It was a big cover up IMO with the usual he wanted to pursue business ventures.  So why they esteem a man who has teaching contrary to what they teach.  Staying with the local church for life.   He hasn't done this but left to supposedly pursue business.  Why of course you could never pursue business and be involved with church    When I've asked about him no one seems to know where he is going to church.  Very odd. 

In any case he made an appearance at a former elders funeral in Ames this year.  The widow acted like they were visited by a prophet saying "Can you believe Jim came"?!  Sickening how they idolize this man. 

I wonder if we will ever know the truth.  They are so full of deceit and lies and cover it up as persecution. 

[Linda]

newcreature, Yes! You are correct. I was typing fast this morning and meant to type Leadership:Elders and Apostles by McCotter and Clark. Not, M2Z.

Marching to Zion is by Larry Pile and was very helpful to us as we were preparing to leave.

Thank you for pointing out my error. I corrected it in the post.

Time2Write, Your post is extremely interesting and makes so much sense.

Also, wastedyearsthere, thanks for your comments. Very telling.

EAS, I somehow missed your post yesterday, but again, all of you are saying the same thing. They are wanting to go back to the old days.

I am interested in all you have to say. More importantly, it might be helpful to inform Larry Pile about your experiences. Especially the ones at Faithwalkers that involve McCotter.

I have been in contact via e-mail with Larry Pile a couple times in recent weeks. I was particularly disturbed by the Wellspring letter that arrived a few weeks ago that contained an article by Larry entitled "Back From the Brink" or something like that. It was about GC and basically said they used to be bad, but they have fixed everything and Wellspring no longer has a problem with them.

Larry informed me that he has been out of the loop on recent events and is very much interested in hearing concerns that people have with GC in recent years. He thought this forum and those posting had issues from a long time ago. I explained that while some posting here go back to the 70's and 80's, this forum is about current problems with GC teaching and practice. He wants to know. He really does.

So, as the Lord leads, feel free to write him.

Here is the e-mail address that I have been using to correspond with him.

cltexprt511@yahoo.com