For "An ex-GCM pastor" and others.....

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[askingquestionsaboutGCI]

For "Ex-GCM pastor" -- if you are still a pastor today, what are you doing differently in your current church fthan in your GCM days?  What changes, focuses, etc???  And if not still a pastor, what is the church you attend like?  What makes it different from GCM?

Similar question to others -- if you are not still in a GC* church, what is different about the church you now attend?  What are the areas you see as an improvement from your old GC* church?

Just curious.....

[Immortal_Raven]

The thing I noticed the most was a lack of pressure.  There's no pressure to attend every single church function and then feeling bad that you didn't go.  There are no leaders breathing down your neck about every detail of your life.  Friends aoutside the church are not shunned or frowned upon.  And most importantly, we're accountable because we want to be and choose to be, not because they tell us to.

Most of the doctrine is the same.  Some notable differences are in the realm of baptism, titheing, and spiritual gifts.  Also, serving is more voluntary.  At my GCM church I was just roped into doing the soundboard.  They told me I was doing it and that was it.  At my new church, the youth minister approached my wife and I about being youth leaders.  He thought that high schoolers seeing a healthy adult marriage would help.  He asked us about it, told us to think about it for a couple weeks.  If we were still interested, then we would try it for a month.  I've been a youth leader for almost two years now.  Almost everytime it's been no pressure.  And the times when there was pressure to run a youth function, it was because no one else could make it.

One other thing I noticed about GC that I haven't noticed with any other churches I've attended(about 6).  Whenver they try to raise money or the church has little money, the message instantly becomes being cheerful givers and giving your "first fruits".  The GC church wasn't even in debt and they were doing these messages because the budget got a little thin.  I've been to other churchs several thousand dollars in debt.  Messages about money didn't come up.  And if they did, you could tell it had no bearing on the current financial situation.  It just bugs me that they panic and start using guilt trips on the congregation for more money.

If I had to choose a word to describe my old GC church it would be suffocating.  My new church I would say liberating.

-Immortal_Raven

[G_Prince]

I agree with everything the Raven said (and also admire his Tears for Fears quote) My church is also very low pressure, so much so that I have to completely re-learn spiritual life. No one is going to guilt me into a quiet time, prayer life, church ministry, evangelism, tithing, singing, or making friends. I now have to do all those things because "I" actually want to. It is hard forming your own spiritual disciplines. Honestly, I pray much less, read the Bible hardly at all, and attend church infrequently. I'm exactly what GCx would call a wish-washy Christian.

The difference is when I pray it is really me praying, when I sing it is really me singing. I'm no longer cowed into belief by fear and pressure. It feels truly liberating.

Another difference is relationships are much more genuine. It has taken my wife and I several years to get comfortable with our new peeps, but now I feel like we are honestly making real friends who won't forget are names after 2 months. It's wonderful not having people climbing over the pews to welcome you to church and invite you to a spaghetti potluck over at so and so's.

[Immortal_Raven]

Thanks for admiring the quote.  It has nothing to do with my feelings towards GCC, it's just my favorite line from my favorite song.  I think your comment about genuine relationships is dead on.  It took a little while to meet some people at our church, but once we did we made some great friendships.  Also that people rushing to greet you and invite you somewhere is scary.  My new church seems to have the perfect balance in that area.  They ask everyone in the church, guest or member, to sign the register in the pew.  Then they tell any visitors "If you want to know more about our church and our congregation, stop by the welcome center after the service."  Totally our choice.  Barely any chance to be put on the spot or be impolite.  My wife and I checked out the welcome center.  Gave them our address and phone number.  Not sure why we gave that information out, especially after our experiences with GCC, but we did.  The next day a member brought us a nice loaf of bread.  I asked him why.  He said it was the church's way of saying thank you for coming.  Nothing more.  The point here is that they know how to be friendly and cordial without being scary.

-Immortal_Raven

[unsubscribed]

It took us 2 years to find a church we felt ready to trust.  It is big. They don't "need" us.  We are not someone's project. We did not attend or look very hard at all during those 2 years.  

The most impressive thing about the church is that the pastor does not micromanage every little detail of everyone's lives.  He can't there are too many people.  I will illustrate this with a sermon he preached about reconciliation which was a huge concern based on our experience with GC-.  He based it on the scripture in Matthew where Jesus says to go to your brother and between the two of you alone....  He went on to preach that no one else needs to know about the problem.  that all the things we do in the name of gathering advice are really gossip and sin.   He related that he should not be involved unless the first step has failed, and that you may find someone closer to the both of you to be a better mediator.   He said the church should not come to him with stories of what someone has done to hurt each other or even if the person is relaying criticism of him.  He said in bold letters GO TO YOUR BROTHER ALONE. It is satans first line into the church to spread gossip and divide in the name of concern for our brother.

WOW! All I ever heard about conflict was to filter everything through the pastors, and "seek Godly council" aka gossip. I can't imagine pastor ofouroldchurch ever passing up juicy gossip like that. They were quick to pass gossip up and down the line about us!!
 
also, we are given bookmarks with scripture every month.  well the odd thing is there are no strings attached (no hidden microphones, cameras, other surveillance equipment) they are not even dated!  the pastor says there is no condemnation for not reading jump in when and where you can.  

I love that we are treated as adults responsible before God for ourselves ; we are encouraged to find a life group, but no one is forcing us.  That being said the assumption is that you are a Bible believing, Christ loving, gift using Christian ready every day to live out God's calling in your life.

Oh, and at the third service the pastor said we are at capacity (1200) so if we could pray about going sat night or earlier sun morn he believed God would move in those peoples hearts to switch.  What? Trust God to move in the hearts of his people?  no reorganization? no pastor having us sign a clipboard or put our slip in the collection basket saying which service we would switch to? amazing to just let God run his church!

God bless those still searching
unsubscribed

[steelgirl]

It took us 2 years to find a church we felt ready to trust.  It is big. They don't "need" us.  We are not someone's project. We did not attend or look very hard at all during those 2 years.  

The most impressive thing about the church is that the pastor does not micromanage every little detail of everyone's lives.  He can't there are too many people.  I will illustrate this with a sermon he preached about reconciliation which was a huge concern based on our experience with GC-.  He based it on the scripture in Matthew where Jesus says to go to your brother and between the two of you alone....  He went on to preach that no one else needs to know about the problem.  that all the things we do in the name of gathering advice are really gossip and sin.   He related that he should not be involved unless the first step has failed, and that you may find someone closer to the both of you to be a better mediator.   He said the church should not come to him with stories of what someone has done to hurt each other or even if the person is relaying criticism of him.  He said in bold letters GO TO YOUR BROTHER ALONE. It is satans first line into the church to spread gossip and divide in the name of concern for our brother.

WOW! All I ever heard about conflict was to filter everything through the pastors, and "seek Godly council" aka gossip. I can't imagine pastor ofouroldchurch ever passing up juicy gossip like that. They were quick to pass gossip up and down the line about us!!
 
also, we are given bookmarks with scripture every month.  well the odd thing is there are no strings attached (no hidden microphones, cameras, other surveillance equipment) they are not even dated!  the pastor says there is no condemnation for not reading jump in when and where you can.  

I love that we are treated as adults responsible before God for ourselves ; we are encouraged to find a life group, but no one is forcing us.  That being said the assumption is that you are a Bible believing, Christ loving, gift using Christian ready every day to live out God's calling in your life.

Oh, and at the third service the pastor said we are at capacity (1200) so if we could pray about going sat night or earlier sun morn he believed God would move in those peoples hearts to switch.  What? Trust God to move in the hearts of his people?  no reorganization? no pastor having us sign a clipboard or put our slip in the collection basket saying which service we would switch to? amazing to just let God run his church!

God bless those still searching
unsubscribed

You had to sign up what service you were going to.  

The problem I had was not being able to go to a small group like everyone else after the big move.

[unsubscribed]

steelgirl wrote
You had to sign up what service you were going to.

No I was just using that as an example of what would have happened If our old church was ever in that situation.  

I am not familiar with what you are saying about you not being able to attend a small group after the big move would you like to share?

unsubscribed

[steelgirl]

steelgirl wrote
You had to sign up what service you were going to.

No I was just using that as an example of what would have happened If our old church was ever in that situation.  

I am not familiar with what you are saying about you not being able to attend a small group after the big move would you like to share?

unsubscribed

[steelgirl]

steelgirl wrote
You had to sign up what service you were going to.

No I was just using that as an example of what would have happened If our old church was ever in that situation.  

I am not familiar with what you are saying about you not being able to attend a small group after the big move would you like to share?

unsubscribed

Summer of 01,  a lot of people moved from Columbus to Orlando.  Small groups dissolved around then.  They then started back up that fall or winter.  The thing was you had to be invited and if they saw you as damaged or whatever you would not be invited.  One couple actually invited me and I went but the location was a lot farther in the long run than the closer one.  Not to mention I had closer friends or at least I thought I did in the other small group.

[AgathaL'Orange]

Our GC church was always reorganizing small groups so you'd be with your friends for awhile and then they'd change it around again and you wouldn't be.  We used to beg to be able to stay with our friends and they let us, but after awhile our friends who were so GC brainwashed it wasn't even funny began to insist on always meeting new people and began pulling away from all their friends.

I had never thought much about the "showing preference" thing, but I am sure this had something to do with it.  Not to mention control and brainwashing new people... or at least love bombing them.

I see other churches that have big small group ministries, and those churches allow the people to sign up for whatever group they want based on friendships and interests.

It was weird.

[steelgirl]

Our GC church was always reorganizing small groups so you'd be with your friends for awhile and then they'd change it around again and you wouldn't be.  We used to beg to be able to stay with our friends and they let us, but after awhile our friends who were so GC brainwashed it wasn't even funny began to insist on always meeting new people and began pulling away from all their friends.

I had never thought much about the "showing preference" thing, but I am sure this had something to do with it.  Not to mention control and brainwashing new people... or at least love bombing them.

I see other churches that have big small group ministries, and those churches allow the people to sign up for whatever group they want based on friendships and interests.

It was weird.

What is wrong with love bombing or it is all part of the control thing?

[wastedyearsthere]

Oh this brings back memories - unfortunately not good ones.  I was with a GCC church that was continually re-organizing small groups.  I was torn away from my best friends within 3 months of my being with the church.  I never thought of this being a form of control -- but I see things different now.  

When one of my friends left GCC she said to me "They worship a different God at the new church"  I found that fascinating.  But when I finally left I've found a difference there too.  The church I belong to God we worship is forgiving, full of grace and mercy and the focus is on GOD.  GCC church the focus on what we can do for God -- our works.  It was very performance oriented.  How often did you evangelize this week?  Are you "in the Word"?  Are you involved in everything with GCC?  None of these things are bad -- but I think the focus is too heavily on what we are doing to reach the world, people and evangelism.

My conversations with people from my new church are worlds different from GCC -- there is no pressure to evangelize.  

Bottomline -- I get to decide before God what I do and how I do it!!

Wonderful FREEDOM!!!!

[steelgirl]

Oh this brings back memories - unfortunately not good ones.  I was with a GCC church that was continually re-organizing small groups.  I was torn away from my best friends within 3 months of my being with the church.  I never thought of this being a form of control -- but I see things different now.  

When one of my friends left GCC she said to me "They worship a different God at the new church"  I found that fascinating.  But when I finally left I've found a difference there too.  The church I belong to God we worship is forgiving, full of grace and mercy and the focus is on GOD.  GCC church the focus on what we can do for God -- our works.  It was very performance oriented.  How often did you evangelize this week?  Are you "in the Word"?  Are you involved in everything with GCC?  None of these things are bad -- but I think the focus is too heavily on what we are doing to reach the world, people and evangelism.

My conversations with people from my new church are worlds different from GCC -- there is no pressure to evangelize.  

Bottomline -- I get to decide before God what I do and how I do it!!

Wonderful FREEDOM!!!!

I did not see a pressure to evangelize unlike CCC.  I had a dear friend in GC who found interesting to connect including go trash picking for some rather good stuf with another friend.  Perhaps she was trying to reach out, just like going to a gay bar with some other friends during the big episodes with Will and Grace.

When were you in GCC?

Over 5 yrs ago, I was being let down by leaders over the fact I was not working which I did not get.  I think I had a taste of how Job felt, since some leaders were really letting me down.  I thought if I had a job things would be better.  I ended up emailing everyone in the singles community how down I was.  My discipler thought I should be spending more time in the Word.   Looking back I was going through Hell.

I don't attend a GCM church anymore, however next to the fact I am afraid to quit a job that I am burnt out on and at times fed up with stuff due to Hell I went through before I started working in this one part-time job.  One comment that a few people made were I can't keep a job.  I have worked 2 jobs for the past  2 yrs. One job comes and goes and then I have this part time I had for 3 and a half yrs.  This job I am getting burnt out on.  The second reason should not perhaps be a reason but it is.  Four yrs ago I went to a job support group at my present church.  It was a few months before my part-time job.  I remember quite a few of the facilitators thought I needed to get counseling, however the root of the problem has not been really addressed until I checked out this blog.