Former New Life/Cedar Rapids Church Member Slams Pastor Kurt Over Internet

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[victoriawinnue]

Hello again.  I searched for New Life Community Church in Cedar Rapids on Facebook and what I found was a little shocking. You have all been so kind to help me understand what a healthy church means, I was wondering if you might be able to help me understand what is wrong with this picture:

This was what was posted as "recommendations" on their Facebook page (also note the link to their Google map which also has other recommendations and a rebuttle from Pastor Kurt which I"ve posted below.) What bothers me is that it seems like Kurt is listening to gossip.  Am I missing something here? It seems like the cancer survivor's mom and dad and husband posted in her defense on Google Map reviews. This is all so weird. Wow.

GOOGLE MAP LINK:
http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=en&sugexp=kjrmc&cp=2&gs_id=5&xhr=t&qe=bmU&qesig=CU-T9YF_oKJJc_GpuNEWvg&pkc=AFgZ2tl5JKAE_ZFBXph6fOOUaRjaY8ECB0UpQn12Glk5De3L_ISmgMd-WEo7sK...o3YgeGi-SJVZbzKF3i5NteB14ivuboaMXL3Q&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=921&bih=359&wrapid=tljp131931680364702&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=new+life+church+marion+ia&fb=1&gl=us&hq=new+life+church&hnear=0x87e4f22e3a0e7f81:0xdcc0093311f7a47c,Marion,+IA&cid=768643619996204224&ei=PS2jTtD7DMa2tgektp2uBQ&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=placepage-link&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CEsQ4gkwAA

FACEBOOK LINK:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/New-Life-Community-Church/109448455760238?sk=info

FROM FACEBOOK, POSTED BY JINEA FULLER NIELSEN
My Daughter Has Suffered From Cancer - Oct 22, 2011 My Daughter Has Suffered... From Cancer, Pastor Kurt, How you can call yourself a man of God or claim to be leading people to Christ!?! JUST FOR THE RECORD; Pastor Kurt, nor anyone else from his church has ever talked to or heard from me in any way. Nor will anyone ever receive from me “Mrs. Nielsen's mother” any statement, as long as I live, that she has not been afflicted with and suffered from cancer along with all its many sorrowing affects. She has not only struggled with cancer the one time you have known her, but this was her 4th time!!! I have been with her through each tragedy. I am wittiness to the scars from her surgery. I have helped her select wigs to cover her bald head as a result of the sickening chemo therapy. I have cried for her and with her. I have fasted and prayed for her and her family. I have tried to comfort her two small children who miss their mommy and I have sorrowed and grieved with her and her precious family in their suffering. 1 out of 2 people found this review helpful.Was this review helpful? Yes - No- Flag as inappropriate Response from the owner Flag as inappropriate New Life Community Church - Verified owner My Daughter Has Suffered From Cancer - Oct 22, 2011 In your “review” posted Oct 7 under the initials ”mmh” you admit to interrogating Mrs. Nielsen and her husband and admitted to asking them to “prove” her-self by providing her medical records, virtually turning them away if she would not do so!! I ask, is it customary for you to qualify and turn away your congregation?? For you to LIE by saying that you have talked to my wife, your claims that she denied my daughter Mrs. Nielsen being stricken with cancer, your propagating the accusations in your congregation that my daughter lied about having breast cancer, along with your promoting contention in your congregation and the way you have regarded her battle with cancer is not only baffling to me but also abhorrent!!! You and your other accusers that profess and insist that “Mrs ... under the initials ”mmh” you admit to interrogating Mrs. Nielsen and her husband and admitted to asking them to “prove” her-self by providing her medical records, virtually turning them away if she would not do so!! I ask, is it customary for you to qualify and turn away your congregation?? For you to LIE by saying that you have talked to my wife, your claims that she denied my daughter Mrs. Nielsen being stricken with cancer, your propagating the accusations in your congregation that my daughter lied about having breast cancer, along with your promoting contention in your congregation and the way you have regarded her battle with cancer is not only baffling to me but also abhorrent!!! You and your other accusers that profess and insist that “Mrs. Nielsen” is lying about having cancer must not have the heart to even have a clue about the pain and suffering that comes when battling this dreaded disease or the uncertainties of the future that it brings to oneself, the mother and father, the husband, the children and other family members and loved ones?? Show full revi•   Perhaps reflect on how you handled the situation, and try not to replicate it. You passed judgement on others without understanding the full situation. You took the words of others and had already came to the conclusion that we were lyin...Perhaps reflect on how you handled the situation, and try not to replicate it. You passed judgement on others without understanding the full situation. You took the words of others and had already came to the conclusion that we were lyin...g about the cancer. We didn't require anything from the church in the previous bout with cancer last year however services were offered. The situation that occurred from the other members of the congregation at Antioch was unfortunate, but, once again you listen to one side and don't get the whole picture. A church body takes people for whom they are. Not stories they hear. You judged Jinae. My judgement will come for my sins. Now, reflect on how you as a church judged others. In no way should you ever confront someone afflicted with cancer. It would be one thing if we were asking for something, but with that said, you should be more mindful of how things came to be. Although I don't feel it necessary to PROVE anything to you, maybe there is some part of me that wants to show you that you and others are and were wrong... So I will show you pictues of Jinae when she lost her hair and then a picture of her during Chemotherapy. Hope its all you needed. And then check you 'sources' and perhaps dont judge on face value. DO NOT RESPOND This is a bald spot from the Chemo, before we shaved he head. Also, notice the length of the hair, obviously it was longer than you have ever seen. This is after we shaved her head and notice the rash from the Chemo. This is receiving Chemo, in the hospital, the mask is because she has no immune system and she could get sick easily. Hope this is all you needed.

 Oct 7, 2011
It has come to my attention that a family who recently left New Life has been advertising their departure in several places. Unfortunately, the family is lying about the circumstances that preceded their decision. I do not relish publishing the truth, but when someone lies to the body of Christ about a church and their life, it needs to be confronted. A few months ago I received word that this family had caused considerable trouble in their previous church and had attempted to deceive people. More specifically, I spoke with two women's ministry leaders who relayed the following: 1) The woman was lying about her cancer, and even her mother confirmed this, and 2) When confronted with the facts the woman responded by harassing people to such an extent that one of them had to obtain a restraining order and another had to change her phone number. After hearing these testimonies, I ... that a family who recently left New Life has been advertising their departure in several places. Unfortunately, the family is lying about the circumstances that preceded their decision. I do not relish publishing the truth, but when someone lies to the body of Christ about a church and their life, it needs to be confronted. A few months ago I received word that this family had caused considerable trouble in their previous church and had attempted to deceive people. More specifically, I spoke with two women's ministry leaders who relayed the following: 1) The woman was lying about her cancer, and even her mother confirmed this, and 2) When confronted with the facts the woman responded by harassing people to such an extent that one of them had to obtain a restraining order and another had to change her phone number. After hearing these testimonies, I met with the woman and asked her about this. She denied it. I suggested the whole thing could be resolved if she gave her Dr. permission to simply confirm her condition. Her response was to leave the room. We continue to pray for the family and regret that we were not able to help them more. Pastor Kurt

[Neverbeengcm]

but when someone lies to the body of Christ about a church and their life, it needs to be confronted.

I suggested the whole thing could be resolved if she gave her Dr. permission to simply confirm her condition.

Pastor Kurt

A few things stand out as being wrong with pastor Kurt's reply:

-Do all churches send out some kind of "all points bulletin" to warn all other churches when a member leaves their congregation?

-What kind of a cotrolling pastor is this guy?  Jeepers!!!

- If someone says they have cancer...Is it normal for a pastor (anyone for that matter) to ask for Doctor's slips to verify whether or not they are sick?  Even if they are making it up?  That is so controilling and just like the Gestapo would do?..."Vwhere Are Yoor Papez?" (in a German Accent).  IF we meet a friend on the street or a stranger in a store who tells you they have cancer..most of us do not ask for documentation to verify it..do we?

- Pastor Kurt is lying on at least one account...You can't just "put a restraining order" on someone.  The courts would not do that in a case like this. There has to be specific direct threat that shows intent to cause harm, specific facts about the harm the offender intends to cause need to be outlined, an ability to carry out the threats must be shown...the list goes on and on. Just ask any woman who has been threatened to be beaten by her boyfriend.  The next day some women are beaten or killed by those who they feel threatened by after the courts deny a restraining order.   It is standard operating procedure for GC pastors to lie to feed their self-preservation needs.

- the entire family is lying?  Really...read further into this, pastor Kurt. The woman really does have cancer.  She lost her hair from the chemotherapy.  What is wrong with this pastor Kurt Guy?  

- If your church does background checks and turns away members because they are sick...that church is a cult.  Even if this woman had lied in the past...perhaps she is suffering from a mental illness.  In that case she may be sick just the same and needs the grace of God to help her heal.  She needs a church family and loving leadership as much as (and probably more than) anyone.

- I was always lead to belive that converstions with pastors were confidential.  Why is Kurt putting this kind of private information out on the internet.  What an idiot!!!

This pastor must be a real control freak? I will never understand why any church leader who represents Jesus would turn away any members.  Please protect your children and stay away from this church.

[calgal]

Victoria:

The whole thing is a little nutty to me.  It baffles me why the pastor would feel the 'need' to air anyone's perceived dirty laundry in such a public forum. It all seems so inappropriate.

But that is what I know of this group. Again - stay away!

[AgathaL'Orange]

Right, I agree.  If someone had actually done what he said they did, it would be odd to report that publicly, you know?  I mean, that would be really bad if they were mentally ill or something.  And if they DID have cancer, well, that's just horrible of the church.  Either way, to me it's strange for the church.  How strange.

[lone gone]

no one knows very much about this incident and to draw any inferences from it is premature.  This involves a negative post on Facebook.... of all places.  It involves a very agitated individual posting personal information about her daughter's illness on a public page.... for all to see...

and this was in response to her being questioned in private about the daughter's condition.

The Pastor's response indicated that he had been in contact with other churches regarding this person and couple and had some suspicions about certain facts.

All of this is playing out in a public manner... and in my opinion, both sides are displaying inappropriate behavior.  If the pastor and church are being demeaned in public, I'd say that a response is in order. I'd also say that the better response by the pastor would have been to post a message telling concerned people to contact him directly for a private discussion where certain facts that did not need to be revealed in public could be shared.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Info and Mis-info on the World Wide Web.

Just because you see something in print, doesn't mean that it is true.

   

[Neverbeengcm]

Lone Gone,

I don't know much about you.  But, from some of the posts I have seen here, you tend to protect the Great Commission and use the same type of tactics used by the pastors in the cult. Perhaps you could use some grace and use a little more compassion for the families who have been torn apart by this cult.


You said, "All of this is playing out in a public manner... and in my opinion, both sides are displaying inappropriate behavior.  If the pastor and church are being demeaned in public, I'd say that a response is in order. I'd also say that the better response by the pastor would have been to post a message telling concerned people to contact him directly for a private discussion where certain facts that did not need to be revealed in public could be shared."

You are missing the entire point and using practices of diversion commonly used by the GC leaders. Your first point is to attack facebook as a diversionary tactic.  The point here is that any personal discussions I have ever had with a church leader are supposed to be confidential...right? Because they posted it on the church facebook page does not minimalize the affect Kurt's actions have had on her. Your trying relieve Kurt from feeling the need to apologizie to her. He shared confidential information first with his church flock and then posted his church gossip with his flock on the internet.

Personal conversations with a pastor are confidential and should not be shared in a public forum or discussed with other members of the church in any context.  Everyone knows that.  If a person felt that Kurt had used poor judgement and turned them away in their time of need. They may feel a little bit upset with him. He has injured them and they are crying out for help. A Pastor should have the grace to forgive anyone who he has injured in any way.  Instead, Kurt is responding to this like a 2nd grader who has been called a name by a classmate.  He is not using discretion.  He is using as you said, "inappropriate actions" to defame the woman. His only concern is that he defends himself.  That is not what Jesus teaches us.  Kurt responds to the hurt he has caused to this woman by publicly throwing stones at the victim....Nice job, Kurt!

BTW...a posting about something on facebook may not always be accurate.  But, it also does not mean that it is inaccurate because it was on facebook. Facebook is one of the newest mechanisms for people to tell their own stories in their own words.  It is a great way to share a story about what is going on in your life. The woman posted her thoughts from her heart. She is crying out in pain from the hurt in her heart.  We can tell that she feels pain by her words.  You are too quick to judge her and to quick to defend the Great Commission.  What Kurt did here was wrong on SO-O-O many levels.  I can't imagine anyone who is a self-proclaimed Christian defending that kind of behavior from a man who is supposed to be a Pastor.  

[lone gone]

My profile here at tells everything about me.  I am totally honest about who I am and my experiences. My identity is known to anyone who wants to see it.  I  have nothing to hide. I do not claim to be healed, I do not claim to be right, I do not claim to have the truth.

My name is Paul Meyer. What's yours?

I do not know you. I can't find out anything more about you than you post, and that could be a fabrication.

In my law enforcement  and life experience, I have found out that there are two sides to every story and someone feeling wronged will make their side of it sound valid while the defender will do the same.

I am not taking sides here,  but after taking thousands of police reports about circumstances similar to this, where one person  "said something snide,mean,demeaning or whatever" to another person... or even "just looked at me funny"  and an argument or even an assault took place over the perceived slight,  I can see where this incident in Cedar Rapids is larger and far more complex than what we have seen on one Facebook page.

One thing that I was taught in the Ames church was to be "wise as serpents and innocent as doves."  In practice,  that meant that the elders were the wise ones and the followers were the innocent ones.

I came out of the Ames Church and got a job as a cop. I was REPEATEDLY told by my fellow officers that I was SO NAIVE about the ways things truly are in this world .   THAT is the Legacy of being sheltered in a group that taught us to be innocent.  I had to grow up fast or I'd have been killed by people pretending to be something when they were in fact something else.  I had to treat everyone with suspicion until I had some assurance that they were not a threat.  As Ronald Reagan said about inspection Soviet Missiles for compliance with the SALT 2 treaty.... Trust but Verify.   You cannot trust too quickly and you should verify everything.


I see that same dynamic here....   too many Naive and innocent people that take a stand on any matter based on their emotions and not on wise thought.  I am being prudent when I see incidents described.   I define Prudence this way....  "Wise Caution and Discipline of Conduct"   

It is said in scripture that we should not lay hands on anyone too hastily...  IE,  not to approve of something to take a pledge for a stranger.  What I am seeing here is a rush to judgement based on some words from a webpage.... at least in this particular incident, and a general lambasting of a group based on the behavior of a few individuals.

It would be the same as stereotyping or profiling. I could say all Cult escapees are paranoid, anti-authority, holier than thou, and love to play the victim..... but I would be wrong.

I am not trying to do what you claim I am, to divide and conquer.  I am trying to slow down the process so clear heads will prevail.

You posted  "The woman posted her thoughts from her heart."   I saw that I started to laugh....

  Do you know what the Elders of GC claim?  That they know the hearts of people....  I can say that you are falling into the same error that they are......

You do NOT know this person's heart, you only see what you want to see.  You may indeed be correct,  but you could just as likely be incorrect.

The lack of insight into basic human relationships and social behavior shown by posters on this board  sometimes astounds me.

[lone gone]

Now do you understand how easy it is to be sucked into someone drama on the internet?  Do you begin to understand the power of the tongue to would and start fires?  Now do you understand how easy ti is to make accusations and assertions and see someone defned themselves?

 

[Neverbeengcm]

Lone Gone,

You are replying to this post and falling into the same trap that Kurt did. You are defensive of your point and of Kurt while forgetting about the crime.   Do police officers ignore the testimony of the victim because there is a chance they may not tell the truth?  Do all police officers tell the truth in court?  Do any witnesses "stretch the truth"?  What does that have to do with any of this? You are discounting the witness and forgetting about the hurt she and her family feel. Ronald Regan's dealings with the Soviet union have no similarities to this instance.  This woman was not toting nuclear weapons. Just talking to her pastor about her situation.

Kurt has publicly discussed his personal conversations with a woman who privately talked with him about her cancer and those conversations he had with others relating to her cancer.  Having cancer is a scary thing for anyone.  Why would Kurt investigate whether she has cancer or not?  Why didn't he simply pray for her, give her some loving advice and let God figure out if she was lying?   She did not ask him for anything more than perhaps prayers.  If she lied to him or other members of the church...What makes Kurt think he should lead the way in humiliating her?

Let's be clear here. This is the important point and the real problem here:

Personal conversations with a pastor are confidential and should not be shared in a public forum or discussed with other members of the church in any context.  Everyone knows that.  If a person felt that Kurt had used poor judgement and turned them away in their time of need. They may feel a little bit upset with him. He has injured them and they are crying out for help. A Pastor should have the grace to forgive anyone who he has injured in any way.  Instead, Kurt is responding to this like a 2nd grader who has been called a name by a classmate.  He is not using discretion or praying for the healing of the person he has hurt. He could care less about the hurt he has caused this family. His only concern is that he defends himself.  That is not what Jesus teaches us.  Kurt responds to hurt by publicly throwing stones at the victim....Nice job, Kurt!

I am not defending the woman.  You are right.  Her statements are probably overly dramatic.  All I know is that she and her family were deeply hurt by Kurt. (there is more information on the internet if you care to look).  This post is about the actions of Kurt...a man who is supposed to be a desciple of Jesus.  Why does this pastor feel it is appropriate to share personal confidential problems a sick person has with his members in any way? He obviously talked with at least a few people in his church regarding this person.  Then, to make things even worse, after sharing this confidential converstaion with some members of his "flock", he also publicly shared it by posting it on the internet.

Do you see a problem with that?  Please tell me you are not defending that...Paul.

[Linda]

My profile here at tells everything about me.  I am totally honest about who I am and my experiences. My identity is known to anyone who wants to see it.  I  have nothing to hide. I do not claim to be healed, I do not claim to be right, I do not claim to have the truth.

My name is Paul Meyer. What's yours?

And why should I believe this? You could very well be a random person saying he is Paul Meyer. You could even be a woman!

The fact that people give their names on this forum should not give them any more credibility than someone who doesn't. What matters is what is being said. Not who is saying it or how they say it. Those are separate topics.

If I say, "Teaching such & such is heresy," and post it under the name "SuzieQ" and someone says, "You don't even have the guts to tell us your name, why should we believe anything you say," that is ad hominem. Attacking the messenger. Whether or not any of us give our names is meaningless to the discussion. (BTW, I pretty much treat everyone as anonymous because this is an Internet forum, for Pete's sake, and we could claim to be anyone!)

About the Google post. It was bizarre. Neverbeengcm makes some valid points. It diminished the authority of that pastor to write what he did. He definitely crossed a line when he said, publicly, on Google:

A few months ago I received word that this family had caused considerable trouble in their previous church and had attempted to deceive people.

Talk about slander! When I read this, I remembered a similar thing John Hopler wrote about Bill Taylor when he said:

What most people don’t realize is that another church (not a GCC church) had disciplined Bill in 1985.

The go-to thing to do is to discredit people critical of GC. It works out especially swell if you have a "spiritual" sounding reason. Of course, maybe both churches referenced in both examples had ample reason to do what they did. Maybe. However, GC leaders have no business making a public record of something like this. It didn't involve them.

Obviously, there is a story with the woman with cancer and significant details are missing. There are two possibilities.

1) She had cancer.
2) She did not have cancer.

If she had cancer, why in the world would a pastor ask for proof. It's bizarre.

If she was lying about having cancer, she is a troubled woman and needs help. The solution is to build a bridge, not say discrediting things about her on the Internet. People can read. People reading what she posted will most likely think, "Hmmmmm, not sure about this story. Sounds like there is more to it." The great irony is that the thing that makes me feel odd about the church was the pastor's response, not a comment from a disgruntled attender. The pastor assumes everyone believes everything they read and he needs to tell them what/how to think.

I think we are all brilliant enough to realize that there are 2 sides to every story. We don't need pastors telling us that. I remember sitting with an ECC pastor after Larry Pile had sent us Marching to Zion (At our request and we purchased it. I don't want Sam to think Larry just randomly sent that book to people.) I showed him the book and said, "Look at this. Were you aware of the history?" His response was to NOT LOOK AT THE BOOK because he said "it was only one side of the story". I said, "Yeah, this is the other side to the story that GC has been telling us." He still wouldn't look. Only thing he looked at was the 13 page statement of error in the back of the book because that was written by GC "elders". He apparently had never seen it before.

What I would say to GC elders reading this is you have bought into a lie. Not everything you do/teach is bad, but some is really, really bad. You don't know the history of the association you serve. You don't read the transcripts of the excommunications. You don't challenge current teaching. THERE IS NO PLURALITY IF YOU REFUSE TO STAND UP AND CORRECT ERROR. You are a bunch of people protecting yourselves by giving passes to false teaching by turning a blind eye in the name of unity.

[lone gone]

Since someone has now suggested that none of us might be who we say we are that pretty much means we can discount anyone's victim story.  We are all making it up. 

Better yet, we might ALL be Great Commission Pastors who are baiting each other into making foolish statements......  Hi guys!

But much more likely we are whom we say we are and I am Paul Meyer.

I'll go back to my life's experience and tell you all that there are such things as con artists.... people who do go from place to place begging for support.  In my own town thee types would wear out their welcome at all the churches.... each one helping until the moocher was exposed and asked to move on... to the next church.

If a Jewish Rabbi, a Catholic Priest, a Lutheran Minister, a Baptist  Pastor and for all I know a Muslim Imam can be shilled by a con artist, I wouldn't know why the pastor of a GC church might not encounter one too.

Oh, by the way,  what is said in confidence to a minister is protected by law from law enforcement. A minister cannot be forced to testify as to what was said to him or her in confidence.  However a minister is not required to keep things a secret.  Just so you know....

Oh, an anonymous complaint has no substance in a court of law.  Remaining anonymous will negate the validity of anything for the purposes of evidence. 

Be someone,  not a no one that no one has to listen to.  God hates cowards as well.... even says they won't get into heaven or something.

Again, the naivete of some of us is astounding.... and it isn't new.. Paul was pretty disgusted with the Galations..... called them fools or something ... pretty much blamed the victims for being deceived.

Good thing God forgives all of us for our foolishness.

[Linda]

I think you have missed my point.

My point is:

When it comes to commenting on the beliefs and practices of a religious organization, the identity of the person making the comment is of no consequence to the discussion.

This is not a court of law. This is a forum on the Internet. I do not automatically believe every story written here. Do you? I don't think any of us do.

Be someone, not a no one that no one has to listen to.  God hates cowards as well.... even says they won't get into heaven or something.

I do believe you are who you say you are, but that is meaningless to me. You may as well be anonymous. I don't know you. It doesn't matter that I know anything about you. Especially when talking about ideas/theology. What I am sensing from this and from your other comment is that you are suggesting that people who post here anonymously are doing something bad, that they are cowards.

I hope you realize there may be other reasons. Witness protection issues, things like that. Remember, this is a group that has made unannounced visits to former members. I caution you to not rush to judgment and try to intimidate or shame people into revealing their identity. People have reasons. This forum respects that.

Now, back to the topic of this thread. The pastor should not have made public any information about the woman that he heard from other churches. This casts him as pastor in a very bad light. It makes him look petty and gossipy.

[Linda]

I started a new thread on moribund equine so we can continue this productive discussion on anonymity.

[Neverbeengcm]

Thank you, Linda, for clearing this up.  This discussion should not be about the personal lives or identities of the members of this forum. The discussion here should be about helping Victoriawinnue find a church.  She was looking for one and has some valid concerns about the New Life Church near Cedar Rapids.  

The issue in this post by the woman with cancer raises concerns about pastor Kurt publicly airing her problems and his discussing the issue with his flock.  I would have to say to you, Victoria, stay away from the church.  There are other bad reviews and too many questions about the leadership of the church to make it a viable condideration in my opinion.  

Our Friend (the ex-police officer), Lone Gone said, "Oh, by the way,  what is said in confidence to a minister is protected by law from law enforcement. A minister cannot be forced to testify as to what was said to him or her in confidence.  However a minister is not required to keep things a secret.  Just so you know....  We all know why a minister is protected from testifying about what he/she has heard...It's because that stuff is confidential!!

A pastor who uses gossip and heresay to further spread gossip does not seem to be the kind of spiritual leader I would look for. I would not want to talk to pastor Kurt about any personal issues.  I get the feeling that every other person in the church will hear about it.  There are other concerns about the other pastors in that church mentioned here on this website as well. Do you want to "submit" to this kind of leadership?

I don't live in Cedar Rapids.  So, I cannot recommend a church there for you.    I hope you find a church where you feel free to worship with church leaders who are caring, compassionate and display the love of Christ in their actions. Good luck in your search and may God Bless you and your family.

[lone gone]

This has devolved into a sort of scholastic debate from the time of the Reformation....  where someone will use an analogy or current event to illustrate a point they are trying to make, and then someone else jumps in and states that the analogy or current event has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. 

Reasonable people would try to better understand what the speaker/writer is saying instead of categorically rejecting whatever they say because it wasn't said in a manner that they accept.... and they never accept anything.

Jesus using parables would have had a hard time being understood by someone with this mindset. 

To accuse me of shaming someone into revealing their identity is quite extreme.  I asked a simple question....  and yes I made my opinion known about posting as an anonymous person being a cover for cowardice. I never would try to shame someone into doing something unless I felt it was best for them.....   God calls us to trust in Him,  Jesus did, the martyrs did, the saints did,  I see no reasons to counter their example.

It is my personal opinion that much of the fear felt by people here is groundless.  Yes a few people may have gotten a visit,  but the vast majority haven't.  Many of the anonymous posters here got visited before they posted here and haven't been visited since.
Larry Pile is probably in the most danger of a visit and yet he isn't hiding his lamp under a basket. I have never gotten a visit..... ever!  Nate Swinton hasn't been harassed to the best of my knowledge.

Get real,  instead of offering excuses or denying your fears,  just acknowledge that you are afraid and weak and do not dare reveal your name because you lack trust in God....   but don't exonerate yourself with noble sounding excuses.....

In front of the Judgement Throne when the deeds of men are made known those excuses won't fly. You and I will have to rely on the grace and mercy of God and the Redemption of Christ in His blood.... both for hiding our names and for revealing our names with false bravado such as I am doing.


As for the topic of the thread, Former New Life/Cedar Rapids Church Member Slams Pastor Kurt Over Internet   It seems to have started with the former church member making accusations and defamations,  but Kurt ( whoever he is) getting criticized for his reaction.

"The pastor should not have made public any information about the woman that he heard from other churches. This casts him as pastor in a very bad light. It makes him look petty and gossipy."   This could be said about anyone who counters public accusations with information gained from other sources.

We still know almost nothing about this incident except that a woman didn't like her actions and statements being explained to a larger group that had already been effected by her behavior in the midst of that group.  This didn't all just happen in a Pastor's office... there was a public portion of this as well.

The  rush to judgement is not wise....

And just to let you all know,  I wouldn't advise anyone to attend the New Life Church.  It is likely a church with a heavy Shepherding emphasis and there is nothing good to say about that.

   

[Linda]

Yes a few people may have gotten a visit,  but the vast majority haven't.

I got a visit complete with a hand delivered letter calling me a divisive sister in the Lord. MORE THAN A YEAR AFTER WE LEFT! In response to my husband's blog post. Any one else get visits?

For those who haven't seen it, here is the link to his post that resulted in a visit AND a shunning. Yay for visits and shunning!

http://www.tmdugan.blogspot.com/2006/06/church-what-is-essential-mere-church.html

Get real, instead of offering excuses or denying your fears,  just acknowledge that you are afraid and weak and do not dare reveal your name because you lack trust in God....but don't exonerate yourself with noble sounding excuses.....

I disagree with your assumption that those posting anonymously are afraid and weak. Suggesting someone is a coward comes across as an attempt to shame.

The rush to judgement is not wise....

I agree.

[Neverbeengcm]

This has devolved into a sort of scholastic debate from the time of the Reformation....  where someone will use an analogy or current event to illustrate a point they are trying to make, and then someone else jumps in and states that the analogy or current event has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion.  

Reasonable people would try to better understand what the speaker/writer is saying instead of categorically rejecting whatever they say because it wasn't said in a manner that they accept.... and they never accept anything.

Jesus using parables would have had a hard time being understood by someone with this mindset.  

To accuse me of shaming someone into revealing their identity is quite extreme.  I asked a simple question....  and yes I made my opinion known about posting as an anonymous person being a cover for cowardice. I never would try to shame someone into doing something unless I felt it was best for them.....   God calls us to trust in Him,  Jesus did, the martyrs did, the saints did,  I see no reasons to counter their example.

It is my personal opinion that much of the fear felt by people here is groundless.  Yes a few people may have gotten a visit,  but the vast majority haven't.  Many of the anonymous posters here got visited before they posted here and haven't been visited since.
Larry Pile is probably in the most danger of a visit and yet he isn't hiding his lamp under a basket. I have never gotten a visit..... ever!  Nate Swinton hasn't been harassed to the best of my knowledge.

Get real,  instead of offering excuses or denying your fears,  just acknowledge that you are afraid and weak and do not dare reveal your name because you lack trust in God....   but don't exonerate yourself with noble sounding excuses.....

In front of the Judgement Throne when the deeds of men are made known those excuses won't fly. You and I will have to rely on the grace and mercy of God and the Redemption of Christ in His blood.... both for hiding our names and for revealing our names with false bravado such as I am doing.


As for the topic of the thread, Former New Life/Cedar Rapids Church Member Slams Pastor Kurt Over Internet   It seems to have started with the former church member making accusations and defamations,  but Kurt ( whoever he is) getting criticized for his reaction.

"The pastor should not have made public any information about the woman that he heard from other churches. This casts him as pastor in a very bad light. It makes him look petty and gossipy."   This could be said about anyone who counters public accusations with information gained from other sources.

We still know almost nothing about this incident except that a woman didn't like her actions and statements being explained to a larger group that had already been effected by her behavior in the midst of that group.  This didn't all just happen in a Pastor's office... there was a public portion of this as well.

The  rush to judgement is not wise....

And just to let you all know,  I wouldn't advise anyone to attend the New Life Church.  It is likely a church with a heavy Shepherding emphasis and there is nothing good to say about that.

I always thought a pastor was supposed to teach us to "turn the other cheek".  Apparently Kurt thinks a pastor is supposed to lead the attack, provide the stones, shore up the perimeter and lead his flock in verbally attacking/humiliating those weak members of the flock.  Interesting....

Finally, thank you, Lone Gone, for finally addressing the subject. All of the rhetiroic and posturing you began your post with has nothing with whether or not you recommend this church.  Finally, I agree with what you said.  I would not recommend attending this church led by  these cult leaders.

[Neverbeengcm]

We all seem to agree that there are definite concerns with the spiritual leadership at the New Life Church near Cedar Rapids,

I thought of another interesting point.  Our medical records are protected by HIPAA laws in this country. The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on August 21, 1996. As citizens of the US, we all have rights to the privacy of our medical records. We are generally not required to disclose those personal records to anyone except your attending physician. We don't have to release those records to employers because of these HIPAA rights. We definitely don't have to release our medical information to our church leaders.  It is illegal for employers to discriminate against anyone on the basis of medical conditions. It would seem to be discrimitory for a pastor to lead his flock in a personal discrimination case against a woman who won't provide medical information.

It seems to me that pastor kurt is asking for confidential medical records and to use the refusal to disclose this personal/confidential information against her.  On top of that, he is doing it in a public way.  Perhaps there is a Government agency that would want to look into the legality of Kurt's request for private medical information.  To use the woman's refusal to give him personal information in order to lead his church into discriminating against her in a public way?!  Wow!!

This seems like a case where HIPAA laws and discrimination laws may have been violated.  Someone should check into that...

  Lawsuit

[calgal]

Neverbeengcm:

You bring up a point I didn't think of ...

To use the woman's refusal to give him personal information in order to lead his church into discriminating against her in a public way?!  Wow!!

Not only were her HIPPAA laws violated .. but she was slandered for not producing the records.


Lonegone:


I am afraid, I am weak and I lack trust in God - you got me

Calgal

[Neverbeengcm]

Here is another example of another church leader leading in the hurtful practice of name-calling.

 http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2010/09/why-so-much-angst-about-anonymous.html


These guys want to control your every thought.  How can they call themselves pastors when they lead by this kind of example?  Why not lead in the loving ways of our lord and savior, Jesus Christ?  Why do some people feel they must defend themselves instead of showing the grace of God by trying to understand the intent of the criticism or the hurt the critical person is feeling?  Pastors should lead by a positive example...don't you think?