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Author Topic: GCC in crisis?  (Read 3979 times)
G_Prince
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« on: May 01, 2019, 03:39:59 pm »

I'm hearing through the grapevine that GCC is completely breaking apart. A very reliable source is saying that the Darling scandle has caused a total fissure along some preexisting fault lines. According to source,  all churches in the west have already broken off and midwest and east coast churches are soon to follow. Rick Whitney has quit the board and is now driving a bus. I am not making this up.
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Here's an easy way to find out if you're in a cult. If you find yourself asking the question, "am I in a cult?" the answer is yes. -Stephen Colbert
Linda
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« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2019, 03:53:40 pm »

This goes with what people "in the know" have been private messaging me, as well.

The W and SW churches are no longer listed as GCC churches on the GCC web site.

Whitney is still listed on the board, but I have been noticing people coming and going from the board in the past few months. Took a screen shot to watch the progress.

Is the feeling that ECC and GCC did not "have Mark's back"? I've seen a letter that references that and in the Hopler letters that were posted on the ECC web site, it was clear that Hopler was sitting on the fence not wanting to criticize the investigation, but not fully supporting it either.

What a mess, and all because the "band of brothers" who talked about "character mattering" decided to not deal properly with a pastor who had inappropriate sexual boundaries with women.

It's all really sad.

Oh what a tangled web we weave...
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G_Prince
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« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2019, 04:04:08 pm »

This goes with what people "in the know" have been private messaging me, as well.

The W and SW churches are no longer listed as GCC churches on the GCC web site.

Whitney is still listed on the board, but I have been noticing people coming and going from the board in the past few months. Took a screen shot to watch the progress.

Is the feeling that ECC and GCC did not "have Mark's back"? I've seen a letter that references that and in the Hopler letters that were posted on the ECC web site, it was clear that Hopler was sitting on the fence not wanting to criticize the investigation, but not fully supporting it either.

What a mess, and all because the "band of brothers" who talked about "character mattering" decided to not deal properly with a pastor who had inappropriate sexual boundaries with women.

It's all really sad.

Oh what a tangled web we weave...


I'm hearing the same things. From what I've been told the Darling scandal split the inner core with some supporting his removal and others totally opposed. In addition to that, there is a younger class of pastors who have been pushing for reform but have been stymied by the old guard. The Darling thing was a breaking point for many of them. I dont have many more details, but it seems that GCC may not exist much longer.
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Here's an easy way to find out if you're in a cult. If you find yourself asking the question, "am I in a cult?" the answer is yes. -Stephen Colbert
ReaperofGCM
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« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2019, 04:31:40 pm »

@Gprince   This is news indeed. Is Rick Whitney not a pastor anymore at the Stillwater church? http://vintagefaithchurch.cc/who-we-are/our-staff
And more importantly, what is he doing driving a bus!!
That being said, if the financial figures are true, i doubt any of these pastors have made a decent salary in years.

The churches on the west coast have all disbanded, the Seattle church in particular shut its doors and are not on the GC site.
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Linda
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« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2019, 06:16:14 pm »

Have all Faithwalkers messages been removed from the GCC web page or am I missing something?
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Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2019, 08:37:01 pm »

Thank you so much for this news, G_Prince! 

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For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
G_Prince
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« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2019, 09:01:54 pm »

It's crazy how suddenly this is happening. I grew up in GCC and I've always lived in its shadow so to speak. It's going to feel really weird when it's gone...
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Here's an easy way to find out if you're in a cult. If you find yourself asking the question, "am I in a cult?" the answer is yes. -Stephen Colbert
margaret
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« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2019, 05:32:34 am »

I say it's going to be really good if/when it's gone.
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Linda
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« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2019, 08:34:06 am »

One of the saddest things about this is that since its inception, GCC leaders, have not listened to the voice of the body of the church and have preached much unsound doctrine. They somehow believed and perpetuated the lie that those who pointed out error were anti-God, or anti-church or persecuting them and that wrong belief led to many people suffering (thank you Janet for faithfully collecting and cataloging so many comments of those who have been wounded).

It's not unexpected that there is division in the ranks because that seems to be the natural way of such arrogance. But, it is sad and once the idol called "church" and "pastor" is removed, many more may be free.


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Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2019, 09:53:00 am »

Amen, Linda!
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For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Huldah
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« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2019, 11:48:29 am »

For those who are hurting right now from the break-up of GCC, I just want to say that the members of this forum understand. We, too, truly loved our GCx churches while we were part of them. We reverenced the leadership. We loved our brothers and sisters. It was painful beyond words when we had to leave. We felt the same things that perhaps some of you are feeling now. This might not make sense to you right now, and you may even doubt our sincerity (although I hope not), but we do empathize. And we can assure you that God has not abandoned you. His grace is there for you now, and it always will be.
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Linda
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« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2019, 12:02:26 pm »

Amen, Huldah.
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BTDT
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« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2019, 04:51:14 pm »

Huldah, that is beautiful.  A heartfelt +1 and amen to that.

I would add this: if you need a listening ear or a broad shoulder, do reach out. I believe there are many of us here ready to support and comfort you in any way we can. Perhaps a post in the Healing Forum, where there will be no debate.  Just know you're not alone.  There are folks here and outside of this forum, from GCx or not, who can help you navigate these waters.

-Ed-
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Ghost
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« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2019, 06:03:27 pm »

I have not posted in awhile...just observed.......kind of like karma...reminds me of messages i sent to Joan Harris..Brent Knox and Evergreen Board of Trustees.....Yes. I was saying all along how i was treated by mark darling and evergreen church and the things i seen going on and marks preoccupation with the single women of the church and i made a complaint against mark darling to Brent Knox in 1991 and i was kicked out of the church and in 2009 posted on the decommissioned forum and included where Mark Darling hanging all over young single girls in the church.  I had some suspicions of his motivation and demeanor in doing so.  I had no personal knowledge that there was abuse taken place.  In light of events surfaced.  This shows a history. A pattern of a pastor. A church.  In the wrong. There were warning signs. People knew. The right people knew.  They just simply hid what they new.  Now they claim 5,000 Voices outweigh the minority detractors who's lies are trying to bring down and destroy a family.  A church.   Yes we the few detractor victims will bring your walls down and you will walk in the ruins of your own destruction and chaos and mayhem you created and thrived on.    Barry Day
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Lost Creature
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« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2019, 01:18:09 pm »

For those who are hurting right now from the break-up of GCC, I just want to say that the members of this forum understand. We, too, truly loved our GCx churches while we were part of them. We reverenced the leadership. We loved our brothers and sisters. It was painful beyond words when we had to leave. We felt the same things that perhaps some of you are feeling now. This might not make sense to you right now, and you may even doubt our sincerity (although I hope not), but we do empathize. And we can assure you that God has not abandoned you. His grace is there for you now, and it always will be.

Thank you for this...

It is hard to see this happen and see that there may be so much (needed) change.
While I am thankful that we may finally get to see our churches change for the better, I am also saddened to see many pastors and leaders doubling down,
seeing this as persecution instead of as a possible opportunity for humility.

I also am saddened to see that others may rejoice in the inevitable collapse of this movement.
This is a movement I grew up in and one that once held my heart.
While there is still a place in my heart for its people and their unconditional acceptance of me,
I know it is time for it to end.

That being said, I am not rejoicing in its end. I had hoped that maybe things could turn around.
Maybe there is the potential for that...but it's hard to tell...all i know is I need a place to heal and recover...
...And, unfortunately, I don't believe this is the place...

For any other Great Commission brothers and sisters that are here as a result of the recent news,
please take everything here with a grain of salt. Just as Great Commission leaders do not speak for God, neither do this forum.
Tread with caution and keep your head and heart for God alone...

Good night...and Good luck, Great Commission Church Members...
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Linda
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« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2019, 03:30:42 pm »

...I had hoped that maybe things could turn around.
Maybe there is the potential for that...but it's hard to tell...all i know is I need a place to heal and recover...
...And, unfortunately, I don't believe this is the place...

For any other Great Commission brothers and sisters that are here as a result of the recent news,
please take everything here with a grain of salt. Just as Great Commission leaders do not speak for God, neither do this forum.
Tread with caution and keep your head and heart for God alone...

I have a couple of observations.

First of all, the purpose of this forum is not to help people heal. Some people critical of this forum have brought that idea into the discussion.

The purpose of this forum is to WARN people about false teaching (hence the name gcmwarning) as well as to provide a place for people to discuss problems they have had with GCM teaching and practice. That may or may not help people heal (finding you are not alone often does help), but no one here claims to be a counselor, and we certainly don't claim to speak for God.

As far as I know, the only people I have ever heard claim to speak for God are GCM pastors. Exposing those claims is part of the reason I post.

God is saying, "Give the controls over to people that I work through..." óBrent Knox

"And you are God's sales force and now you're MY sales force. And you represent me and Brent's church." óMark Darling

You say you were hoping things would turn around. I am curious, what are the things you feel need to be "turned around"?

Finally a reminder, all Christians are empowered by the Holy Spirit to discern Truth. Everything anyone says, no matter who they are, should be run through the filter of Truth found in the written Word of God.

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Lost Creature
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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2019, 04:59:56 pm »


First of all, the purpose of this forum is not to help people heal. Some people critical of this forum have brought that idea into the discussion.


This...explains...everything...
I get now why my grief and lost feeling were used when I first got here 6 months ago, trying to figure things out...
It all makes sense...


You say you were hoping things would turn around. I am curious, what are the things you feel need to be "turned around"?


I was hoping my leaders and others would've realized what the system was turning our churches into,
repent of the old ways and start something new...

But that doesn't seem to be a part of the program...
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Huldah
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« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2019, 06:53:19 pm »

I was hoping my leaders and others would've realized what the system was turning our churches into,
repent of the old ways and start something new...

But that doesn't seem to be a part of the program...

I know.

I went to see one of my deacons once when I was part of the movement. I was really, really struggling with the restrictions our church put on women, and I couldn't fully reconcile those restrictions with what I saw in the Bible. This was a BIG DEAL to me. I was hurting.

I explained my struggles to the deacon. I showed him some relevant passages in the Bible that he had never seen or heard of (which kind of blew me away; they can be so very dogmatic on a topic where they haven't even read all the related Scripture?!). I fully expected that he would read the Bible, and take this up with the elders, and things might start to change once they realized there was a piece of the puzzle missing...

Nothing changed.

Except that I got branded as a troublemaker.

It was heartbreaking and stressful. So I know what you're going through, not completely of course, but in some ways. I'm not trying to rob you of your hope. I would like to give you hope. You have hope because God is so much bigger than any one church or movement. There are churches where you can grow in grace and knowledge, maybe not right now if you're not ready, but some day when you are ready. You're not walking away from God, if you really know Him. (If you're not sure you know Him, that's a different conversation, and one that I or any other believer here would be willing to have with you.) And you can be happy in another church--when you're ready--without giving up the love you have for your GC church. You can still pray for those people. You can still keep open the possibility of a future reconciliation.

Sorry if I'm going all Pollyanna on you, but I do understand your pain. I know it's real. I believe you. But it won't last forever. You have a future, and God will be there for you just as He's with you right now.
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Linda
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« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2019, 07:00:51 pm »

Not sure what you meant by "This...explains...everything...", LC, but, to clarify, this is a forum for people to connect over their past experiences with a GCx church.

"As I stated: The purpose of this forum is to WARN people about false teaching (hence the name gcmwarning) as well as to provide a place for people to discuss problems they have had with GCM teaching and practice. That may or may not help people heal (finding you are not alone often does help), but no one here claims to be a counselor, and we certainly don't claim to speak for God."

By that I meant that the sharing of experiences can be helpful to people who want to process their experiences, and that, in turn, can offer comfort to people, but the goal of this forum is not to offer counseling.

In the past, defenders of GC have posted snarky comments about how people here haven't "healed" in an attempt to discredit this forum and mocked people for their continual posting.

Repairing damage done to people by unsound teaching takes a lot more than a forum can offer. What it can offer is examples of unsound teaching and practice that have happened and continue to happen in the hopes that people will not be misled or mistreated in the future.

You said: "I was hoping my leaders and others would've realized what the system was turning our churches into, repent of the old ways, and start something new."

You may be amazed to learn that that was my hope as well. The only thing we discovered was that GC DOES NOT WANT TO CHANGE. We expressed our concerns (specifically about the commitment for life and obedience to elders teaching) to many elders. In the end we met with Mark Darling and Spencer Bernard. At that meeting, Mark Darling told us GC would never change and asked us to leave rather than try to correct this error. So, we left.

GCC really believes they are right. This is why they will never change. This is why they do what they do.

As far as thinking the demise of GCC may be God's will, I will say that when people insert themselves between Christians and God, like the ECC pastors have done, their actions are blasphemous and are misleading many. Is it God's will that a church not blaspheme his name? Is is God's will that elders not claim to speak for God? Is it God's will that elders not tell congregants to give the controls of their lives to them?
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Lost Creature
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« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2019, 12:12:28 pm »


In the past, defenders of GC have posted snarky comments about how people here haven't "healed" in an attempt to discredit this forum and mocked people for their continual posting.

Repairing damage done to people by unsound teaching takes a lot more than a forum can offer. What it can offer is examples of unsound teaching and practice that have happened and continue to happen in the hopes that people will not be misled or mistreated in the future.


I assure you, my intent is not to mock...

While this forum has been helpful in seeing pieces of the truth, especially from a historical perspective,
it has become a place where victims are encouraged to destroy this movement, instead of praying for it...

Are we not also encouraged in scriptures to pray for our enemies?
Even Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do"...
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