GCx: Founded and Established on Oppression and Lies

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[Janet Easson Martin]

GCx (GC x=whatever you've disguised yourself as),

"For your hands are stained with blood, your fingers with guilt.
Your lips have spoken lies, and your tongue mutters wicked things.
No one calls for justice; no one pleads his case with integrity.
They rely on empty arguments and speak lies;  they conceive trouble and give birth to evil.
They hatch the eggs of vipers and spin a spider's web."

_{Isaiah 59:3,4,5}

God is well-aware of these oppressive practices and the lies that are used to defend them.

[/color]  

"The Lord looked and WAS DISPLEASED that there was NO justice.
He saw that there was no one, he was APPALLED that there was no one to intervene;
so his own arm worked salvation for him..."

_{Isaiah 59:15b,16}

[blonde]

Janet, can you share with us some of the lies and deception GCx has done to you?  I have plently of my own. -Blonde

[DrSam]

With all due respect, ladies, that is a pretty extreme, harsh title. I've been there in a lot of the original days. People had good hearts, loved God, and meant well in trying to do their best. Trashing like that is something that probably is coming from unhealed wounds and deep anger due to feelings of abuse. I know... been there and have processed it. I can see both sides and that both sides mean well. No one has deliberately planned on deceiving, hurting, or abusing. When it happened, it was because of immaturity and adolescent narcissism. Kinda like being a parent to immature adolescents. In this case, the adolescents rule over others and so they make lots of mistakes. I would say to you dear ladies to chill out and look at yourselves and experience grace to self and to others. We all have plenty of warts. God still likes us all and is patient with each of us and our stupidities. Isn't that great?

No doubt I may still get crucified with the same vitriol. God bless ya' all.

[Janet Easson Martin]

These are not MY words,

This is what the Lord Almighty says:

"Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes.
They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord.
They keep saying to those who despise me, 'The Lord says:  You will have peace.'
And to all who follow the stubborness of their own hearts they say, 'No harm will come to you.'
But which of them has stood in the council of the Lord to see or to hear his word?
Who has listened and heard his word?

I did not send these prophets, yet they have run with their message;
I did not speak to them, yet they prophesied.
But if they had stood in my council, they would have proclaimed my words to my people
and would have turned from their evil ways
and from their evil deeds."

_{Jeremiah 23: 16-18, 21-22}

One of the major ways a false teaching group harms the sheep is to not proclaim the whole counsel of God.  Parts are left out or twisted to agree with their own system of rules.  The WHOLE TRUTH is not told.

There are those who are deliberately deceiving and those being deceived the Word of God says.  Those who are evil and those who are imposters.  It seems God is addressing the people of Judah (which included the false prophets) who were carried away to exile from Jerusalem to Babylon in Jeremiah 24:5,6,7,8,9
 

"I regard as good the exiles from Judah, whom I sent away from this place to the land of the Babylonians.  My eyes will watch over them for their good, and I will bring them back to this land.  I will build them up and not tear them down; I will plant them and not uproot them.  I will give them a heart to know me, that I am the Lord.  They will be my people and I will be their God, for they will return to me with all their heart.

"But like the poor figs, which are so bad they cannot be eaten, says the Lord, 'so will I deal with Zedekiah king of Judah, his officials and the survivors from Jerusalem, whether they remain in this land or remain in Egypt.  I will make them abhorrent and an offense to all the kingdoms of the earth, a reproach and a byword, an object of ridicule and cursing, wherever I banish them."

Ask Him to learn if these things are applied in context and in truth.  Pray and ask God to speak to you so personally and individually about the possibility of continual false teaching and deception in your group or church?  If you really seek and believe Him and not your own will, he WILL SPEAK to you.

[DrSam]

The problem, Janet, is that hardly anyone "preaches" the whole counsel of God. Who defines "the whole counsel of God"? What makes them an authority or you one to tell anyone what it is? In my humble opinion, you and I and every church would be guilty of not presenting the "whole counsel." To me this is like a "straw man" that is constructed and easy to knock down. Anyone can be made to be GUILTY and then judged and condemned. When I hear this argument I think, "Yea, yea... heard that before in other circles and way before GC." I recommend, get help, healing, and move on with your life. There is a hungry world out there that needs our love. Go to it. Leave the squabbling to others who want to waste time, energy, and stay angry and unhealed. There's a dying world out there that looks at this stuff and walks away shaking their heads. This younger generation cares nothing about these things. We are missing the train... and blessings of touching lives.

[blonde]

The fact that GCx does not encourge seminary or higher eduction, says a lot Doc Sam.  They have no idea what the Bible is about.  I'm afraid you might be slightly wrong in this case. 

[DrSam]

Blonde,

There are merits in going to a quality seminary and also set-backs as there is in not going to one. Each side is over-rated. I can say that, as one who has gone to a very good institution, seminary can help you acquire analytical skills, especially using and diagramming with original Biblical Languages. Five translators of the NIV taught at my seminary. I got to sit under three of them plus other scholars. That said, it was very sterile and tended to produce arrogance in the learners. The process tended to disconnect students from their hearts and focus on their heads. With GC, the opposite dynamic tended to happen though towards the end of my tenure I helped and encouraged GCM to send staffers to respectable schools (which they did). Neither context has a good balance.

In my personal opinion, because of these mutual imbalances, neither context presents the "whole counsel of God."

[Neverbeengcm]

DRSam,

You are obviously not an impartial person here. In fact, you are probably one of the misguided pastors of this cult.  You have defended the Great Commission's contiued misrepresentation of the bible and the oppressive ways they continue to use to hurt the people who trust them.  

People come to this site to heal from the hurt caused by this religious group. You defend those who have knowingly and purposely hurt others to further their own self imposed position of glory. Shame on you, DRSAM!!!

[DrSam]

DRSam,

You are obviously not an impartial person here. In fact, you are probably one of the misguided pastors of this cult.  You have defended the Great Commission's contiued misrepresentation of the bible and the oppressive ways they continue to use to hurt the people who trust them.  

People come to this site to heal from the hurt caused by this religious group. You defend those who have knowingly and purposely hurt others to further their own self imposed position of glory. Shame on you, DRSAM
!

Dear friend (Neverbeen),

You, apparently do not read well.

I am somewhat appalled at some folks here trying to pin every single pastor/leader in GC as a wicked and evil person, condemning them with vitriol. You seem to share that vitriol and such flagrant one-sided imbalance apparently "hellbent" to condemn unconditionally.

Apparently you don't know me, my past, what I know, and the folks inside of GC I have known quite close. I've always said, that I do understand abuse well, having been experienced it myself. At the same time that does not mean everyone is automatically an evil person. Both GC and hurt folks have right things about them and also have error. Somehow folks who trash these pastors and those who have written literature about them are respected and their character never brought into question. They are given  an automatic free pass and are never vetted.

I specifically wrote the following article for persons like you that abound inside and outside of the faith:

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2011/10/07/avoiding-the-traps-of-extremism/

I recommend that if you are without sin then to cast the first stone. Otherwise, spread the love and grace since you, also have been greatly favored, forgiven, and loved by a God that puts up with your and my idiocies.  

[calgal]

DrSam - reading your posts here, I'm just trying to figure you out.  This site in my opinion is for those to share in a group setting their experiences to heal and move on ... but you seem to say something counter - am I reading this wrong?:

I know... been there and have processed it.

I recommend, get help, healing, and move on with your life.

I would say to you dear ladies to chill out and look at yourselves

Leave the squabbling to others who want to waste time, energy, and stay angry and unhealed

Somehow folks who trash these pastors and those who have written literature about them are respected and their character never brought into question.

[Neverbeengcm]

DrSam,

You have done little to change my opinion of you.  You still seem to be defending the GCx teachings and followings.  You continue to show no remorse for the harm the Pastors and Elders of GCx have caused.  In fact, I am more certain than ever that you are a GC pastor or at least one at heart.

And... NO!, I will not waste my time reading articles that glorify you every time you talk someone into reading them.  Jeepers!!!

[DrSam]

DrSam,

You have done little to change my opinion of you.  You still seem to be defending the GCx churrch teachings and followings. 

So be it. Apparently you have not read my article either because you missed totally the "black or white" thinking such as "I'm totally right and you are totally wrong" mentality some have here... just like Great Commission!!!!

Have a great life, friend!

[DrSam]

DrSam - reading your posts here, I'm just trying to figure you out.  This site in my opinion is for those to share in a group setting their experiences to heal and move on ... but you seem to say something counter - am I reading this wrong?:

I know... been there and have processed it.

I recommend, get help, healing, and move on with your life.

I would say to you dear ladies to chill out and look at yourselves

Leave the squabbling to others who want to waste time, energy, and stay angry and unhealed

Somehow folks who trash these pastors and those who have written literature about them are respected and their character never brought into question.

Some on this forum are well on their way to healing. Others are blinded by their hurt so much that they give into vindictive and incessant trashing to the max of others. At some point, you tell the hurt one, to move on. That is all I tried to do along with trying to help them with their "ALL or Nothing" irrational thinking. I.E., "I'm totally right GC Pastors, and you (GC Pastors) are totally wrong." and evil, wicked, etc. Think about it. Read my article I mentioned. Maybe you'll understand.

[Neverbeengcm]

DrSam,

I am not drinking your kool-aide. Anyone who has been exposed to the Great Commision Churches knows the standard operating procedure of controlling their followers.   They all use the same cult practices designed to make the poor unsuspecting person believe that everyone has a responsibility to watch their fellow parishioners and report any “sins” to the leaders.  How is that any different from the Gestapo?  You use the same rhetoric when you say things like, “Somehow folks who trash these pastors and those who have written literature about them are respected and their character never brought into question”. People don't post here to get respect.  They post here to tell others about their experiences and to heal from the hurt they feel in their souls. You are just as self-centered and abusive as the GC leaders. People are “trashing these pastors” because they have been brainwashed and hurt by the same type of idiotic rhetoric you use in your posts.
 
You have done little to change my opinion of you.  You continue to defend the GC churrch teachings and leaders.  Your attempt at belittling me and throwing insults at me to make me feel bad about myself is simply not going to work on me.

You Wrote:

"You(meaning me), apparently do not read well.  You seem to share that vitriol and such flagrant one-sided imbalance apparently "hellbent" to condemn unconditionally”.

I am strong and not easily swayed by the methods you use or the similar methods used by the leaders in the Great Commission churches.  You use messages hidden in the context of your posts.  Here is the message your first post gives to the readers:

"With all due respect, ladies, that is a pretty extreme, harsh title (GCX: Founded and Established on Oppression and lies). Trashing like that is something that probably is coming from unhealed wounds and deep anger due to feelings of abuse. I would say to you dear ladies to chill out and look at yourselves.
No doubt I may still get crucified with the same vitriol".

You seem to be saying that people who have been harmed by this cult are to blame for it. They need to "chill out and look at themselves" instead of remembering what the GC leaders have done to them. What are you trying to do here?  Do you want people to stop telling others about their experiences? You arrogantly think people should forget about the years of their lives this cult has taken away from them. You want people to stop telling others about the harm this cult has caused.  I can see through the load of manure you are trying to sell to us as a fragrant perfume.   You are trying to take advantage of the guilt the GC has instilled in them by making the people who have been hurt feel bad about complaining about these selfish idiot false prophets. What gives you the right to stop people from warning others about the hurt this church has inflicted upon their souls?

The Gestapo leaders of this church subtly give messages in their circular sermons. Their message is, “If you don’t believe every word the pastor says is actually the word of God then you will go to hell”.  “Everyone has a responsibility to watch their fellow cult members to make sure they follow the word of God”. We all know that GC pastors are self-centered power hungry souls who get a fix from the power and control they are able to get from their followers. They are not speaking the word of God when they tell you not to think for yourself. These morons are not God and have not been appointed by God.  They appointed themselves to be God. They tell their flock that they are the only people who are smart enough to figure out what the Bible says.  In reality, they are not very smart and have actually only risen to the level of their incompetence.  This cult makes people feel like they are sinning if they disagree with even the most idiotic things a pastor says.  Most people eventually figure that out and get out of the cult.  Unfortunately, it is after years of programming has been installed into their minds. It takes years to get it out and allow these wounded souls to get back to a semblance of normality.  

This cult tries to stop people from thinking by taking their human emotions away from them. Please stop writing in a way that leads us to believe that we should feel bad about telling others about our negative experiences with this cult.  Help others to heal by venting and letting their emotions flow.  

[Linda]

They appointed themselves to be God.

It is astonishing how the current elders are blind to this. Every GC elder says he is chosen by God. And, they claim that to be submissive to Christ, you have to be submissive to an elder!!! So, they have set themselves up as a mediator between God and men. I would not want to be in their shoes.

The fact is that every GC elder was appointed (they like to say "recognized") by the elders in his church. Those elders, in turn, were appointed by the elders in their church. The line of "eldership", is a succession that can be traced back all the way to Jim McCotter (and some would add Dennis Clark and Herschel Martindale).

Obviously, the next question is: How did Jim, Dennis, and Herschel get their authority to appoint elders? Answer: They appointed themselves!!

Jim, pulled out from the authority of his Brethren church and started his own church. He declared himself an apostle and then claimed apostolic authority.

Every GC elder can trace his roots to Jim McCotter, who, as it turns out, left this group in the mid-80's to "pursue business ventures." And, as we know, no one can go to church AND pursue business ventures at the same time. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark!

[Janet Easson Martin]

Thank you, Neverbeengcm, for coming to this site.  Your perspective from the outside is very much appreciated.  Very Mature Christians who have a very healthy ego would recognize a group like GCx from a mile away.  They would NEVER accept such garbage!  They know where they get their power from and who is responsible for it.  Their need for self-esteem is already filled by their Redeemer.  They know who rightly receives the GLORY.  

That is one of the problems, members in this group are labeled "DISLOYAL" if they listen to such christians.  They are persuaded to have little exposure to them.  That, of course, is how cults are built and sustained.  WHO ARE THEY TO TELL US WHAT WE SHOULD NOT SAY, READ or NOT READ, LISTEN OR WATCH OR NOT!!!  You do not need man's permission to do or not do any of these things.  You, my friend, are FREE in Christ.  Don't submit to rules and regulations of religious leaders

THANK GOD FOR THIS SITE!  This site, exiled and captive belivers reading here, is, I believe, part of our God-ordained deliverance.  People on here are FREE to say what they really think and not be bullied or SHAMED, or publicly slandered.   This site is like a large cult-recovery group.  We are told in the WORD that it is WISE to search the scriptures for ourselves to see if these things are accurate.  To see if they are really taught in the Bible.

My son recently told me something he learned in Bible class at school that I never thought of.  Even after the Israelites escaped from oppression and captivity in Egypt, they STILL asked permission to do things because it had become so ingrained in them.  Only the ETERNAL TRUTH of the LIVING GOD in his WORD can set us FREE even from past oppression.  We need to study it and read all the commentaries we want along with the direction of the Holy Spirit in US in order to claim its promises, power, and revelation of God's personal will for US.  

I, myself, was told by a "leading sister" (who heard it from the elders) when I was in GCx NOT to read other commentaries on the Bible, NOT to listen to other Bible teachers, and definitely NOT to visit other churches.  This isn't christian committment.  This is GCx idol worship.

We need more healthy christians never before in "Great Commission Churches" (GCx whatever) like you to post here.  You have not been repeatedly told denouncing words and received denouncing labels and denouncing lies which do go down into the soul.  They tend to stay until  lots of repeated TRUTH  washes them out and fills the spot they took.

Thank you for your thoughts, insight, and perspective!

[Neverbeengcm]

Thank you Linda, Janet, Calgal and all of the others who have written kind words to encourage me to do what I believe in my heart to be right.  I will continue to visit this site to help you and others like you to gather strength from the knowledge that we are here to support you. You don't have to feel threatened by controlling pastors who do not have the love of Jesus in their hearts.  GCx pastors have the love of the church in their hearts and the love of the power their self appointed positions have given them.   Remember, God did not appoint them into these positions of power over you.  They did that all by themselves.  

Know that there are Christian people out here in society who have your back.  You don't have to do this alone.  While I can't possibly fully undersand all of the pain you personally feel or know what you have gone through. I have people I love in my life who have been there and some still are there suffering through religious persecution from misguided pastors, elders and power hungry church leaders.  I hope I can provide an outside perspective to help you decide how to best serve God in the way that best allows you to feel the beautiful glory of our lord. He will set you free.  I want all of the GCx pastors and those who continue to support these bozo's to know that there are people who do not feel threatened by them and their controlling ways.  

Keep strong.  May God bless you and all those who seek him in the loving way he intends.

[EverAStudent]

Linda, I know I have said this before, so I am sorry for being redundant. 

Pastors are appointed / ordained by men and kept in place by willing congregations.  That does not mean that such men have the spiritual giftedness of being a pastor.  Some men who hold the office in a church are not qualified because they lack the ability to teach, others are not qualified due to their domineering dispositions (called "lording it over the flock" by the Scriptures).  Others, lacking knowledge of the Word, actually preach against sound doctrine in a manner similar to Diotrephes.

Not all pastors were called to be pastors by God.  They called themselves and they convinced others to appoint them, but they were not gifted to be pastors. 

Therefore, being a pastor does not prove one is approved of by God to be a pastor.  Nonetheless, such "pastors" do have all the responsibilities and obligations that come with the office. 

[Neverbeengcm]

Everastudent,

I do agree with some of what you said.  Not all pastors are called by God nor do all pastors need to go to seminary to teach us the word of our Lord Jesus. Some of them actually start out as good Christians with good intentions.  The problem is that the pastors of the great commission may have been called by God and may have even started with good intentions.  But, these unsuspecting men are groomed to teach the the word of our Lord in a way that is controlling and twisted by their elders.

These men who originally meant to follow the spirit of the Bible are taught a system of control and manipulation by their elders and pastor leaders in the GCx.  This is intended to buffalo their followers into drinking their brand of kool-aide. The very people who have entrusted them with their spiritual lives are led to believe that it is sinful to not follow every word spoken by the church elders...even if it hurts or demishes the rights of their fellow cult members.  This is simply wrong on SO many levels.

If your pastor or church elder schedules your week for you or makes you feel obligated to tell on your fellow christians...you are in a cult.  Run away from these morons as fast as you can.  Tell everyone in the church your feelings.  It won't matter anyway.  Because the church elders will make their followers shun you and drop you like a bad habit. You need to  seek out the help of another church or seek out my advice (or the advice of others who have been through this kind of thing).

What if the church elders tell their followers to walk accross a busy highway to show their faith in God.  Would you follow them?  I certainly hope not.  But, for some reason these self appointed idiots think that they have the power to run your lives.  They further believe that we do not have the ability or intelligence to question their authority in any way.  Sorry,  I aint buyin' that. I never will.

Good luck to all of you who have been misled.  I have you in my prayers.

God bless.

[DrSam]

Hey guys, you are all entitled to your opinion. I still think you guys do not understand what I am saying and are greatly skewed because of unhealed hurts. I am not exonerating GC from their wrongs. You do not realize to what extent I was humiliated, mistreated, and hurt. The difference between you and me is healing. I understand how abused people can be deeply angry. The problem with being in that state is that it can blind and cause a person to over-react and say things that later, under a healed state, they would realize was over-extended and exaggerated. It is atrocious the labels and misapplied scripture being thrown around here.

As for pastors in GC, they are not 100% evil and wicked as you want to pin on all of them. I know a great majority of them personally. You guys were not as involved as I was and therefore cannot tell me what I know. I know enough to be able to say that GC is guilty of abuses and immaturity but not 100% evil as some here insist. I also say that having been in many instances where both sides in the early days showed their colors, that those who have written and attacked from the other side have their own "poo poo" also... but they will not admit or be transparent about it. Mr. Pile himself wanted pastor heads on a platter. I asked him about deprogramming by them and every time he skillfully used legal sounding responses not coming clean. Since then I talked to some that were very close to situations and they shared that indeed these guys were present at what was/is illegal deprogramming of people sequestered against their will. They know that if they admit this their whole credibility goes down the toilet.

I responded to this thread because Janet was using extremely strong language that I consider over the limits as she trashed people with blanket statements. I felt it was unfair, misinformed, and unkind. Her dogmatism is just as firm as some of the GC dogmatism you have seen and also consider wrong. I consider that somewhat a double-standard. Guys like Pile, Royal, etc. get a free pass and many here swallow their views unconditionally without vetting them. Again, I don't think you guys ever read my article on how ego loves these kind of things regardless of which side you take.

God bless and I pray for your speedy healing.