GCx: Founded and Established on Oppression and Lies

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[Neverbeengcm]

DrSam...Why do you continue to side with the cult leaders in your defensive comments? Why do you feel obligated to silence those who speak out against the harmful practices of the GCx? It is important for people to be able to vent and tell others about these hurtful cults.  Your continued defense of the cult is misguided at best.  You ALWAYS want to push the hurt people have in their hearts under the carpet.  You tell them to forget about it...forgive...stop bashing the cult...  Your message is clear, "SHHHH...someone else out there may hear that this cult is bad.  Lets just keep that our little secret.  Lets forgive and keep it to ourselves...".  STOP IT!!!

People don't post here to read articles by you.   They come here to vent and tell others about the personal struggles they have been through.  It is important for us to allow them to tell their stories in their own ways.  you don't like it becasue they use words that are hurtful to the GCx.  You need to get over it. Allow everyone an opportunity to vent in their own way. The hurt in their souls is greater than you will ever know.  You have not been hurt in the ways that some of the posters here have.  You would have grace and understanding if you had been hurt that deeply.

It is unreasonable to expect people who have been hurt by this group of religious elitists over many years to recover overnight.  You seem to expect people to just read your posts, forget what happened to them and then be quiet about it.  Then, everything is all ok.  That is what the self-proclaimed pastors/elders want to have happen.  How are they supposed to recruit new members if the truth about them is spoken so loudly, harshly and so often?

Listen up!!! This cult has hurt so many people in so many ways that you do not seem to be able to comprehend.  I can see that you don't care about the hurt the GCx has caused in so many people. Your main concern is that the people who have been hurt are telling others in ways that you don't like. We can't have that...now can we?  Well, we can and we will. We all need to be able to be heard.  We have a responsibility to tell others what we have experienced.  This forum is out here to allow people to tell their stories in their own words and in their own way.  Your continued insistance that people just "get over it" is hurtful, irresponsible and disrespectful.  

You need to have the common decency to allow people to openly discuss their hurt without the same type of subtle reprimanding the cult leaders use to place doubt in the minds of their followers.  This same type of doubt placed in the minds of people is used to manipulate them into believing they are sinning if they disagree with the pastors/elders.  You obviously understand this.  Because you were (probably still are...at least in spirit) one of these pastor/leaders. I can tell this is true because I am looking in from the outside and I know how you people operate.

Please let people vent, discuss, heal and find peace in their own ways.  Stop telling them it is wrong to discuss the many hurts this cult has wrought upon them. I pray that God will some day give you the grace to stop badgering those who speak out against the evils of the GCx cult.

Good day sir.

[DrSam]

DrSam...Why do you continue to side with the cult leaders in your defensive comments? Why do you feel obligated to silence those who speak out against the harmful practices of the GCx? It is important for people to be able to vent and tell others about these hurtful cults.  Your continued defense of the cult is misguided at best.  You ALWAYS want to push the hurt people have in their hearts under the carpet.  You tell them to forget about it...forgive...stop bashing the cult...  Your message is clear, "SHHHH...someone else out there may hear that this cult is bad.  Lets just keep that our little secret.  Lets forgive and keep it to ourselves...".  STOP IT!!!

People don't post here to read articles by you.   They come here to vent and tell others about the personal struggles they have been through.  It is important for us to allow them to tell their stories in their own ways.  you don't like it becasue they use words that are hurtful to the GCx.  You need to get over it. Allow everyone an opportunity to vent in their own way. The hurt in their souls is greater than you will ever know.  You have not been hurt in the ways that some of the posters here have.  You would have grace and understanding if you had been hurt that deeply.

It is unreasonable to expect people who have been hurt by this group of religious elitists over many years to recover overnight.  You seem to expect people to just read your posts, forget what happened to them and then be quiet about it.  Then, everything is all ok.  That is what the self-proclaimed pastors/elders want to have happen.  How are they supposed to recruit new members if the truth about them is spoken so loudly, harshly and so often?

Listen up!!! This cult has hurt so many people in so many ways that you do not seem to be able to comprehend.  I can see that you don't care about the hurt the GCx has caused in so many people. Your main concern is that the people who have been hurt are telling others in ways that you don't like. We can't have that...now can we?  Well, we can and we will. We all need to be able to be heard.  We have a responsibility to tell others what we have experienced.  This forum is out here to allow people to tell their stories in their own words and in their own way.  Your continued insistance that people just "get over it" is hurtful, irresponsible and disrespectful.  

You need to have the common decency to allow people to openly discuss their hurt without the same type of subtle reprimanding the cult leaders use to place doubt in the minds of their followers.  This same type of doubt placed in the minds of people is used to manipulate them into believing they are sinning if they disagree with the pastors/elders.  You obviously understand this.  Because you were (probably still are...at least in spirit) one of these pastor/leaders. I can tell this is true because I am looking in from the outside and I know how you people operate.

Please let people vent, discuss, heal and find peace in their own ways.  Stop telling them it is wrong to discuss the many hurts this cult has wrought upon them. I pray that God will some day give you the grace to stop badgering those who speak out against the evils of the GCx cult.

Good day sir.

Dude, you need to chill out! You've got me wrong and you are missing significant points, almost like you don't have ears and will not listen.

People have a right to ventilate up to a point. You may ventilate your hurt but still be respectful. When you cross a line and call folks evil and wicked, and then make a universal application of that statement to everyone, then you are out of line. You would need to be called on the carpet, especially when I know many folks well whom are attacked. You don't know them and the folks here the same. You and them may know a few but not the majority. It is like, you are sick, you tell me it is my fault that you are sick... I can take that, then you purposely hurl (vomit) on me. That's uncalled for and starts to be in the realm of hatred.

People need to heal, but that does not mean shutting off all other voices. That does not give them license to be just as abusive in return. To ventilate without responsibility is having rights to be a brat and hurt others and not expect some retribution or consequence. Being hurt does not give that hurt person the right to be mean. I know that people need to heal, probably better than you due to many reasons. I know the pain, I just happen to have professional credentials given to me some validity that I know what I am talking about, I do this professionally in working with very bitter, resentful, vindictive, persons who are hurt and bringing them to healing and balanced thinking and perspectives. I also have gone through the incredibly painful journey of healing.

This is an open forum for exchange of thoughts on GC, it is not exclusively for GC-haters.

Again, read that article, you just might learn something if you read.

[Neverbeengcm]

 DRSAM,

I wish you could see the way you contradict your own statements. Let me get this straight.  You believe that people should only have the right to be mean if they post things that belittle those who have been hurt by the GCx.  Now I smell what you are steppin' in. GCx pastors, elders and supporters (like you) are the only ones who get to speak thier minds.  The rest of us need to forgive forget and not tell how the cult has hurt us. And, yes, I DO know many of the "folks" (GCx pastors/elders) who are being attacked here.

You want everyone else to be respectful.  But, you resort to disrespectful name calling.  Here are some examples of the name calling you just did:



 you don't have ears
 you are sick
 you purposely hurl (vomit)
realm of hatred
abusive
a brat
hurt others
mean


You also said:

I just happen to have professional credentials given to me some validity that I know what I am talking about, I do this professionally in working with very bitter, resentful, vindictive, persons who are hurt and bringing them to healing and balanced thinking and perspectives. I also have gone through the incredibly painful journey of healing.

This is an open forum for exchange of thoughts on GC, it is not exclusively for GC-haters.



Well DRSAM...I could not help but feel differently.

You somehow believe that by writing in large letters your words are more important or perhaps that they have more validity.  You have again used name calling to try to make me "submit" to your idiocracy.  You have called me "sick" and accused me of "throwing vomit".  Immediately after stating from your soap box that things must be respectful.  You alluded to people who tell about negative experiences as being "sick" in your postings.  People who have been hurt by GCx are not sick. Being oppressed by a religion led by controlling church leaders does not make a person somehow flawed or make them unworthy of being heard.  l What gives you the right to label people needing love and caring as "sick"?

You just told us in your post that you think of the people you work with as people who are “bitter, resentful and vindictive”.  Did you ever consider that they are injured souls needing something more than arrogance from you?  Why not think of these unfortunate Christians as deserving human beings who are “hurt, crying out for help, needing of love, and wanting to be heard”?  You really need to evaluate yourself and stop trying to silence those who want to have a voice…even if they say things GCx lovers like you don’t want to hear.

[Linda]

Good Morning, Sam! Nice to see you're still around.

I just wanted to remind you that no one on this forum speaks for everyone. You, me, anyone. We are mostly a bunch of people who have never met who have a common experience with false teaching in a particular religious association. Making blanket statements about motives is pointless. We all have different reasons for posting.

Furthermore, we might all be jerks, but what does that have to do with pointing out false teaching? We might not have healed at all, but what does that have to do with pointing out error? We might all wants heads on platters, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't point out blatant error. (We shouldn't be jerks or want heads on platters, mind you, but my point is, it doesn't matter who points out the error, what matters is that the error is pointed out.)

Several years ago, while reading The Last Battle I came across this line. "By mixing a little truth with it they had their lie far stronger." Right away, I thought of GC. I was there 10 years. I stayed because for the most part they got church right. I didn't see the huge error. I was blind to it because so much was good. Here is the error:

And so even to give the controls over to God, that's hard, but the real kicker here is God is saying, "give the controls over to people that I work through, and these people are fallible, these people make mistakes, these people are weak at times. You-outta work through it anyway," that's what God says.

Sam, these people teach you are supposed to give the controls of your life to your pastors!!!!

I don't want heads on platters, I want them to publicly correct this heresy and stop misleading new believers.

[DrSam]

Good Morning, Sam! Nice to see you're still around.

I just wanted to remind you that no one on this forum speaks for everyone. You, me, anyone. We are mostly a bunch of people who have never met who have a common experience with false teaching in a particular religious association. Making blanket statements about motives is pointless. We all have different reasons for posting.

Furthermore, we might all be jerks, but what does that have to do with pointing out false teaching? We might not have healed at all, but what does that have to do with pointing out error? We might all wants heads on platters, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't point out blatant error. (We shouldn't be jerks or want heads on platters, mind you, but my point is, it doesn't matter who points out the error, what matters is that the error is pointed out.)

Several years ago, while reading The Last Battle I came across this line. "By mixing a little truth with it they had their lie far stronger." Right away, I thought of GC. I was there 10 years. I stayed because for the most part they got church right. I didn't see the huge error. I was blind to it because so much was good. Here is the error:

And so even to give the controls over to God, that's hard, but the real kicker here is God is saying, "give the controls over to people that I work through, and these people are fallible, these people make mistakes, these people are weak at times. You-outta work through it anyway," that's what God says.

Sam, these people teach you are supposed to give the controls of your life to your pastors!!!!

I don't want heads on platters, I want them to publicly correct this heresy and stop misleading new believers.

Hi Linda!

I like your attitude and you win me over when you are gracious and kind and can talk about opposite views yet be respectful attempting to be balanced.

For the most part I agree with you. I would add that everyone has good and bad in them. No one is 100% evil unless it is Osama Bin Laden. Mature adulthood means that you can stay connected and engage while differing. Few can do that. It takes a significant level of grace, maturity, and love to do that. I have friends that I can say, "You're being an idiot now and I totally disagree with you, but I like you as a person and see wonderful things in you. We can agree to disagree... Now lets grab some coffee together!"

[DrSam]

To Neverbeen...

Dude, you still don't get it and don't want to listen!

Have it your way. You want to tangle. You win!

DRSAM,

I wish you could see the way you contradict your own statements. Let me get this straight.  You believe that people should only have the right to be mean if they post things that belittle those who have been hurt by the GCx.  Now I smell what you are steppin' in. GCx pastors, elders and supporters (like you) are the only ones who get to speak thier minds.

 Here are some examples of the name calling you just did:

[

 you don't have ears
 you are sick
 you purposely hurl (vomit)
realm of hatred
abusive
a brat
hurt others
mean


You also said:

I just happen to have professional credentials given to me some validity that I know what I am talking about, I do this professionally in working with very bitter, resentful, vindictive, persons who are hurt and bringing them to healing and balanced thinking and perspectives. I also have gone through the incredibly painful journey of healing.

This is an open forum for exchange of thoughts on GC, it is not exclusively for GC-haters.



I could not help but feel differently

You somehow believe that by writing in large letters your words are more important or perhaps that they have more meaning.  You have again used name calling to try to make me submit to your idiocracy.  You have called me "sick" accused me of "throwing vomit".  Immediately after stating from your soap box that things must be respectful.

You just told us in your post that you think of the people you work with as people who are “bitter, resentful and vindictive”.  Did you ever consider that they are injured souls needing something more than arrogance from you?  Why not think of these unfortunate Christians as deserving human beings who are “hurt, needing of love, and wanting to be heard”?  You really need to evaluate yourself and stop trying to silence those who want to have a voice…even if they say things GCx lovers like you don’t want to hear.

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[Neverbeengcm]

DrSam,

It is not about winning for me.  This is not a game for me.  These are real human beings here who have been injured and repressed by a cult. I want to stand up with them and help them to be strong. My only hope is that I help people to feel free to post their thoughts and express their repressed emotions without having to fear the same kind of retribution they get from the GCx leaders.  They should not feel bad about themselves because they have human emotions and feelings. They deserve a place to share the hurt that the GCx has caused them.  This forum can provide them with that.

In your last post, you highlighted the main problem I have with your postings. You said, "You still don't get it and don't want to listen".  You see, the problem is that you want people to listen to you.  You do not want to listen to them or try to feel their emotions. You want them to stop feeling and to stop recognizing where their pain comes from. In your postings, you wanted me to listen to you while you did not listen to the things I said.  

I always say that it is hard to listen when you are talking.  If you truly want to help people try to put yourself in their shoes. You wouldn't think of them as being "sick, bitter, resentful" or any other derogatory terms if you opened up the compassion in your heart. You would look upon them with caring and compassion and see them as human beings deserving of caring and compassion (not reprimands and repression).  They are crying for help in their time of need.  They want to feel free from the control and repression they felt while in the great commission church. They don't mean any harm to anyone. They only want a kind, loving and understanding ear to help them to heal.  What is wrong with giving them that?   

Please continue to post here, DrSam.  I believe you are an intelligent person who has the ability to show compassion for his fellow human beings.  Think of protecting the ones who are hurt by GCx instead of always protecting GCx. Be compassionate toward the people who have been hurt without defending those who have hurt them.  What harm would come from making a few posts where you show caring and concern for the injured person instead of protecting the Great Commission.  Please try it.  It will bring you peace.  I have already had a number of people privately thank me for standing up for them and providing a different perspective. These are not sick, bitter or resentful people. They only want the love, compassion and joy of Christ in their hearts that they deserve. They need positive thoughts and support from people like you more than you will ever know.

God bless.

[DrSam]

DrSam,

It is not about winning for me.  This is not a game for me.  These are real human beings here who have been injured and repressed by a cult. I want to stand up with them and help them to be strong. My only hope is that I help people to feel free to post their thoughts and express their repressed emotions without having to fear the same kind of retribution they get from the GCx leaders.  They should not feel bad about themselves because they have human emotions and feelings. They deserve a place to share the hurt that the GCx has caused them.  This forum can provide them with that.

In your last post, you highlighted the main problem I have with your postings. You said, "You still don't get it and don't want to listen".  You see, the problem is that you want people to listen to you.  You do not want to listen to them or try to feel their emotions. You want them to stop feeling and to stop recognizing where their pain comes from. In your postings, you wanted me to listen to you while you did not listen to the things I said.  

I always say that it is hard to listen when you are talking.  If you truly want to help people try to put yourself in their shoes. You wouldn't think of them as being "sick, bitter, resentful" or any other derogatory terms if you opened up the compassion in your heart. You would look upon them with caring and compassion and see them as human beings deserving of caring and compassion (not reprimands and repression).  They are crying for help in their time of need.  They want to feel free from the control and repression they felt while in the great commission church. They don't mean any harm to anyone. They only want a kind, loving and understanding ear to help them to heal.  What is wrong with giving them that?  

Please continue to post here, DrSam.  I believe you are an intelligent person who has the ability to show compassion for his fellow human beings.  Think of protecting the ones who are hurt by GCx instead of always protecting GCx. Be compassionate toward the people who have been hurt without defending those who have hurt them.  What harm would come from making a few posts where you show caring and concern for the injured person instead of protecting the Great Commission.  Please try it.  It will bring you peace.  I have already had a number of people privately thank me for standing up for them and providing a different perspective. These are not sick, bitter or resentful people. They only want the love, compassion and joy of Christ in their hearts that they deserve. They need positive thoughts and support from people like you more than you will ever know.

God bless.

Think of me in anyway you want. I think you are misreading me still though you made some progress with this last response.

If you recall, I was pointing out to the ladies that the title of this thread was quite harsh. I was gracious and respectful. I got trashed and labeled a GC-lover which is inaccurate. I am not with them or with you all. I appreciate the truth, where it is, regardless of sides. Both sides have issues, hurts, and good things. Those who jumped on me, can only accept that their side is 100% correct and GC side is 100% false, wicked, evil. I was pointing out that this is extreme. I appealed to the ladies to look at their paradigm in another way. Unfortunately, glandular reactions happened. If you knew me you would know that I am very much in support of people processing their emotions responsibly. Processing one's emotions does not give that person the right to disrespect others. Patients of mine can feel and say all they want, and will get my empathy, but if they cross a line of attacking others or persons I know, they are out of place. That's why I said, that not feeling well or being sick does not give that person the right to hurl at them... or even spit on them. That is not Christlike or mature.

I trust you can understand.

[Neverbeengcm]

DrSam,

No…I am clearly NOT misreading you.  You have disappointed me again.  Here I gave you a chance to be humble, thoughtful and caring. You had a chance to show that you actually care about the people who have been hurt by GC. Instead you compose yet another post where you have attempted to self-elevate yourself to a position of being somehow superior to the rest of us.  In fact you have attempted to paint yourself as being superior to both sides of the GC cult issues while remaining defensive of yourself at the same time.  Nice job…

I am offended by your comment about me making progress.  I am here to help others heal from the misguided and controlling teachings of the Great Commission.  I am not here to please you. I am not here to try to get ANY kind of emotional rewards from you.  That is the kind of thing controlling people use to begin controlling others.  Nice try, though. That kind of stuff will not work on me.

No human being is 100% evil or 100% good. There is some good and bad in all of us. You even alluded to some terrorist leader in an earlier post as being 100% evil.  Even that guy had followers who believed he was Godly.  I am sure he was a lovely person to some people.  The leaders of the Great Commission are much the same.  They are lovely people to those who benefit from it.  At the same time they use controlling methods to twist the bible to control their followers and take away their rights as human beings.  They take away their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I can’t defend that part of who they are.  Why do you continue to ignore the hurt these pastors/elders have caused by misrepresenting the scripture for their own personal glorification?  Why can’t you show the same kind of compassion to those they have injured?

Let me make this clear. The title of this post is accurate and comes from the heart.  It says a lot about the kind of twisted leadership the GC has been using and how much the GC has hurt so many people.  Now, I know I am imperfect.  I admit it. I have made many mistakes in my life and have many flaws as a person.  But, I try to learn from my mistakes to make myself a better husband, father and Christian. I strive to be a better and more caring person every day. I am strong of spirit and unafraid of the Great Commission leaders. But, I am also a caring person who is able to show compassion for his fellow human beings.  The Great Commission Churches use their own misguided twisting of the word of our lord to attempt to control the lives of other human beings.  That is wrong no matter how you look at it!!!

Please re-read my previous post and see if anything about being humble or caring of others sinks in. I really want to think you are capable of being a better human being.  I am trying to help you here, my man.

[DrSam]

No…I am clearly NOT misreading you.  You have disappointed me again.  Here I gave you a chance to be humble, thoughtful and caring. You had a chance to show that you actually care about the people who have been hurt by GC. Instead you compose yet another post where you have attempted to self-elevate yourself to a position of being somehow superior to the rest of us.  In fact you have attempted to paint yourself as being superior to both sides of the GC cult issues while remaining defensive of yourself at the same time.  Nice job…
I am offended by your comment about me making progress.  I am here to help others heal from the misguided and controlling teachings of the Great Commission.  I am not here to please you. I am not here to try to get ANY kind of emotional rewards from you.  That is the kind of thing controlling people use to begin controlling others.  Nice try, though.

No human being is 100% evil.  You even alluded to some terrorist leader in an earlier post.  Even that guy had followers who believed he was Godly.  I am sure he was a lovely person to some people.  The leaders of the Great Commission are much the same.  They are lovely people to those who benefit from it.  At the same time they use controlling methods to twist the bible to control their followers and take away their rights as human beings.  They take away their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I can’t defend that part of who they are.  Why do you continue to ignore the hurt these pastors/elders have caused by misrepresenting the scripture for their own personal glorification?  Why can’t you show the same kind of compassion to those they have injured?

Let me make this clear. The title of this post is accurate and comes from the heart.  It says a lot about the kind of twisted leadership the GC has been using and how much the GC has hurt so many people.  Now, I know I am imperfect.  I admit it. I have made many mistakes in my life and have many flaws as a person.  But, I try to learn from my mistakes to make myself a better husband, father and Christian. I strive to be a better and more caring person every day. I am strong of spirit and unafraid of the Great Commission leaders. But, I am also a caring person who is able to show compassion for his fellow human beings.  The Great Commission Churches use their own misguided twisting of the word of our lord to attempt to control the lives of other human beings.  That is wrong no matter how you look at it!!!

Please re-read my previous post and see if anything about being humble or caring of others sinks in. I really want to think you are capable of being a better human being.  I am trying to help you here, my man.

Yes, you are STILL misreading me and do not understand AND you impose on me your worldview AND you categorically condemn me as not being humble, thoughtful, or caring because I don't fit your definition of "caring and compassionate." You give the hurt person an unqualified pass and license to abuse also. I want them to process their hurt but STOP hurting others back. You want them to heal? Show them boundaries and model to them responsibility with their words.

You insist on your perspective. I respect your right to such. You still don't get it. Nice talking with you.

[Neverbeengcm]

Wow!!

DrSam, you are one stubborn guy!!!.  How many chances do i have to give you to be humble?  Are you that injured as a person that you are unable to feel compassion toward those who have been hurt? You still mistakenly have some misguided belief that this is somehow about me.  Take me out of the equation. I am talking about recognizing the pain other people have and their rights as human beings to express those hurts withiour fear of further repression.  You make it personal about you.  You continue to stubbornly defend your "position" without considering that you do not mention caring about the pain people are feeling in their hearts.  You said, "I want them to process their hurt but STOP hurting others back". So, you are saying that this is about what you want. You want to control them and guide them.  Don't you getit?  That is one of the main things that causes them so much pain.  Please show a little compassion toward those who have been hurt by the Gcx.  They want caring and compassion not control and guidance form you.

Do you think Jesus taught us to deny compassion toward our fellow human beings? I believe that denying compassion toward your fellow human beings is unchristian.  This is try Number 3.  Is your name Peter, by chance?  He denied knowing Christ 3 times.  Is that what you are going to do here?

[DrSam]

Wow!!

DrSam, you are one stubborn guy!!!.  How many chances do i have to give you to be humble?  Are you that injured as a person that you are unable to feel compassion toward those who have been hurt? You still mistakenly have some misguided belief that this is somehow about me.  Take me out of the equation. I am talking about recognizing the pain other people have and their rights as human beings to express those hurts withiour fear of further repression.  You make it personal about you.  You continue to stubbornly defend your "position" without considering that you do not mention caring about the pain people are feeling in their hearts.  You want to control them and guide them.  that is one ofthe main things that causes them so much pain.  Please show a little compassion toward those who have been hurt by the Gcx.  They want caring and compassion not control and guidance form you.

I believe that denying compassion toward your fellow human beings is unchristian.  This is try Number 3.  Is your name Peter, by chance?  He denied knowing Christ 3 times.  Is that what you are going to do here?

I am stubborn when I have no choice and someone tries to impose on me their limited view of what compassion and humility is. In calling me stubborn you are taking that right out of the GC Playbook. In GC, when you disagreed, you were called "stubborn" and "not humble." You model defines compassion as letting hurt people run around hurting/abusing others. I've explained myself that I am all for sharing one's hurts as long as there is responsibility and respect attached to that sharing. When that is not followed, it is simply unbridled, untrained, brattinness, that is looking for a "head on a platter."

[Neverbeengcm]

DrSam (peter),

You do have a choice.  You can choose to stop being derfensive of yourself and the GC cult or you can choose to be compassionate and caring of others.  You have completely misread the post and have interpreted what people are saying in misleading ways.  The heading of this post does not say that pastors are 100% evil.  Not one poster (except you) has ever mentioned that anyone is 100% evil or 100% good.  Your years in the GC have certainly affected your thinking. We do not want someone controlling us into ignoring the pain we feel deep in our souls.  You continue to ignore what the post heading says, "GCX - Founded and Established on Oppression and Lies".  

Seriously, you have got to get ahold of yourself and stop defending yourself.  Frankly, it is getting a little bit pathetic. Nobody cares about your opinions on how we should feel or your article. We are not GC members who need to be told how to talk, how to act or how to feel.  Stop making this about your lack of control over how people express their feelings.  You have no control over any of us nor should you feel empowered to tell any of us how we should feel. Sorry...you cannot control what others say.  

You could choose to say things like, "I am sorry that you were oppressed and feel hurt by the control the leaders imposed upon you" or maybe "I hope time and God's love will help you to heal form the hurt you are feeling from the misgivings of the Great Commission Church".  Wouldn't that be a refreshing way to look at helping others to heal?

If you don't like people being upset and talking about the flaws in the GCx...maybe you could just be a man, at least be nice about it and stop whining about it.  It seems as though you want us to only say really nice things about the GC and ignore the things that may not paint them in a positive light. You better learn to get over it.  It is going to happen as long as the Great Commission continues to follow their same misguided teachings.  

Hope you are learning from this DrSam.

[EscapeFromSummitview]

DRSam,

You are obviously not an impartial person here. In fact, you are probably one of the misguided pastors of this cult.

You have done little to change my opinion of you.  You still seem to be defending the GCx teachings and followings.  You continue to show no remorse for the harm the Pastors and Elders of GCx have caused.  In fact, I am more certain than ever that you are a GC pastor or at least one at heart.

DrSam, aka Sam Lopez, was indeed a pastor of GC (until they threw him out). He was there before and after Jim McCotter left. He even wrote for the famous 1985 double issue of Jim McCotter's The Cause magazine, The Joy of Justice (see the articles written by Sam Lopez). Oh, and he's also always had some sort of chip on his shoulder about Larry Pile and used to try to pick fights with him when he posted here. It's all part of The Sam Experience: a de-commissioned exclusive.

[anonymoustoday]

if you listen to jim mccotter's video teaching on the leadership structure used by gci you will hear jim give credit to sam lopez for helping him develop the concepts.  wasnt it those very concepts of leadership which were used to abuse and harm so many of us?

there is no need to question why it is that drsam likes to throw stones at the members of this forum who were damaged by gci, because every harmed person is one more witness against his policies, his teachings, and his leadership style.  therefore drsam must say that it is the abused that are really at fault for getting abused or else he has to fully man up to what he did to all of us. 

healing never begins for the sinner until the sinner can come to his senses and repent.  i hope some day drsam can be truly healed.

[DrSam]

DRSam,

You are obviously not an impartial person here. In fact, you are probably one of the misguided pastors of this cult.

You have done little to change my opinion of you.  You still seem to be defending the GCx teachings and followings.  You continue to show no remorse for the harm the Pastors and Elders of GCx have caused.  In fact, I am more certain than ever that you are a GC pastor or at least one at heart.

DrSam, aka Sam Lopez, was indeed a pastor of GC (until they threw him out). He was there before and after Jim McCotter left. He even wrote for the famous 1985 double issue of Jim McCotter's The Cause magazine, The Joy of Justice (see the articles written by Sam Lopez). Oh, and he's also always had some sort of chip on his shoulder about Larry Pile and used to try to pick fights with him when he posted here. It's all part of The Sam Experience: a de-commissioned exclusive.

Escape, of course, Mr. Pile never throws stones and there is always a crowd of eager followers who willingly turn the eye and consistently give him a free pass. Much like Obama gets from his adulating media folks.

For your information, like I've said before, I do believe that GC abused folks. That is wrong. I also believe that Pile and Co. have been motivated also by wanting "heads on a platter" as Pile himself said. But he gets a pass, of course.

By the way, I was forced out because I confronted every National Leader on wrongs committed. Have you suffered by paying with your job for being honest?

[DrSam]

if you listen to jim mccotter's video teaching on the leadership structure used by gci you will hear jim give credit to sam lopez for helping him develop the concepts.  wasnt it those very concepts of leadership which were used to abuse and harm so many of us?

there is no need to question why it is that drsam likes to throw stones at the members of this forum who were damaged by gci, because every harmed person is one more witness against his policies, his teachings, and his leadership style.  therefore drsam must say that it is the abused that are really at fault for getting abused or else he has to fully man up to what he did to all of us. 

healing never begins for the sinner until the sinner can come to his senses and repent.  i hope some day drsam can be truly healed.

Anonymous or whoever hides behind that name...

You do not know exactly what was being referred to and you don't know what I have done to take care of my part of the equation to anyone I may have hurt in my past. You are a presuming and mischaracterizing me. You want to vilify me simply because I don't 100% agree with you, despite me saying that GC has been abusive. You can't have a guy say that both sides have made mistakes. I can say that because I have gone through an arduous process of healing that has been very painful but quite effective.

[DrSam]

Neverbeen... again another move right from the GC Playbook. When you disagree, and express it, not only are you proud and stubborn but "defensive." Listen, have it your way and knock yourself out with your cronies here. You still don't get it and may you have a good life.!

DrSam (peter),

You do have a choice.  You can choose to stop being derfensive of yourself and the GC cult or you can choose to be compassionate and caring of others.  You have completely misread the post and have interpreted what people are saying in misleading ways.  The heading of this post does not say that pastors are 100% evil.  Not one poster (except you) has ever mentioned that anyone is 100% evil or 100% good.  Your years in the GC have certainly affected your thinking. We do not want someone controlling us into ignoring the pain we feel deep in our souls.  You continue to ignore what the post heading says, "GCX - Founded and Established on Oppression and Lies".  

Seriously, you have got to get ahold of yourself and stop defending yourself.  Frankly, it is getting a little bit pathetic. Nobody cares about your opinions on how we should feel or your article. We are not GC members who need to be told how to talk, how to act or how to feel.  Stop making this about your lack of control over how people express their feelings.  You have no control over any of us nor should you feel empowered to tell any of us how we should feel. Sorry...you cannot control what others say.  

You could choose to say things like, "I am sorry that you were oppressed and feel hurt by the control the leaders imposed upon you" or maybe "I hope time and God's love will help you to heal form the hurt you are feeling from the misgivings of the Great Commission Church".  Wouldn't that be a refreshing way to look at helping others to heal?

If you don't like people being upset and talking about the flaws in the GCx...maybe you could just be a man, at least be nice about it and stop whining about it.  It seems as though you want us to only say really nice things about the GC and ignore the things that may not paint them in a positive light. You better learn to get over it.  It is going to happen as long as the Great Commission continues to follow their same misguided teachings.  

Hope you are learning from this DrSam.

[AgathaL'Orange]

I would probably have titled it, "Gcx: Founded on Misguided Idealism, Creedless Revelations, and Early 20-Something Jesus Freaks with a Bone to Pick With Their Fathers."

Or, "GCx:  When ineptitude, mutual butt kissing, and zealousness are so bad it looks like lies and oppression." 

Or, "GCx:  Just get out, before you deed them your retirement fund, every Sunday, Wednesday, Monday, Saturday Morning, Thursday, all of your children's futures, your manhood, or your reputation."

  Or something like that. 

LOL.  I think it was founded on no foundation and that's why when they built the next few stories, it just sorta leans like a wonky skyscraper.  Then they gotta come and prop up the side until it leans the other way.  I say, scrap it, and go join a real church!   

[Neverbeengcm]

Well said, Agatha.  I have never been a Great Commission member.  So, for me it is unthinkable to have anyone tell me that they need to think for me and empty my checkbook at the same time. But, I know how difficult it can be to disagree with a pastor or someone who is in a position of power in a church. I have loved ones who have succumbed to religious persecution and power hungry zealots.

I have been approached by groups like the GC in my life and spoken/debated with them. They ALWAYS have flawed logic in their way of thinking.   It might make sense if you are in a weak state of mind…but, not if you are emotionally strong.  They try to change your way of thinking and control you like a helpless sheep. If you take a section of every other sentence in the bible, you can change the intended meaning of things Jesus tried to teach us into something very different.  That is what these people do.   I learned that the lies these groups teach are subtle at first.  The idea of being a good Christian is noble and admirable.  They try to make it seem fun, interesting, spiritual and the only path to heaven.
  
The subtle lies become a little less subtle when you start considering them all together.  They don’t want you to consider them and list them one at a time in succession. They don’t want you to talk about them with anyone else.  The truth is too clear that way.  The church leaders just sprinkle these lies one at a time when they can.  They do it quickly and subtly during a sermon. (I have listened to a few of them online and have seen it personally).  They make sure to have a few elders in the front row nodding their heads in approval when the subtle twist occurs. They have one member be the laugh track to laugh when the pastor tells an intended joke. They try to divert you from thinking about how the lie does not make sense.  The pastor talks about something a little bit different for a few sentences.  Then, the pastor reinforces the little twist of the scripture with another little lie.  After attending a few church services it all seems to become normal.  Then they sprinkle in a few little controlling rules that are the fruit of these lies over time. Throw in some guilt about not attending church in the past and soon enough it makes sense to allow someone to control your life.  It sure is a scam.

My brother-in-law was a "pastor" in a church similar to the GC.  One evening, when I was in my 20's, he tried to talk me into his line of crap.  I didn't buy it.  But, he was my brother-in-law.  I wanted to keep peace in our family. He asked if he could come "talk" again. I agreed to listen to him.  The next time he brought a few of his fellow religious nut-jobs to give me the hard sell.  Luckily for me they did not get me at a time when something was missing from my life. I pride myself on being a sincere, caring person.  They tried to take advantage of that part of me.  I want to give people the benefit of the doubt. I talked and debated with them 3 evenings in total (I must have been bored or something). I wanted to honor my sister and understand her husband.  The more they talked, the more I understood that these guys are trying to make me believe that Jesus teaches us that:

-   We all should never question what a pastor/elder says regardless of how stupid it sounds
-   The pastor is God and only HE has the ability to speak to the real God
-   God wants us to give our money to him
-   Men are smarter than women and should be favored throughout their lives over women
-   God wants the pastor to control your schedule
-   God wants us to ignore those who do not think the way the pastor thinks
-   God wants the pastor/elders to think for us
-   God wants us to report others who are thinking on their own to the pastor/elders
-   God wants us to love our neighbor (as long as they believe in the twisted scripture being taught)
-   God wants us to judge others who do not believe that every word of the pastor is God’s word

Does any of this seem to be a little bit off to you?

My sister is the pastor's wife, has 10 children and is hopelessly trapped in a religious cult.  The women all are second class human beings and the men make all of the decisions.  IQ tests and other sensible ways of determining intelligence are not important.  The first thing to consider when determining if you should be listened to is whether or not you have a penis.  Apparently, that is what Jesus teaches us. He must have said that the one thing that makes you intelligent enough to control others.  Sorry if that is too radical for some of you.  But, I don't believe men are more intelligent or capable of leading than women.  We all have a brain and can think for ourselves.  We are all capable of spreading love and compassion.

 *---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

As for DrSam. I truly feel sorry for him.  He does not understand that I don’t have the GC playbook.  I never have had it and I don’t want to have it.  I understand that he is an injured soul who needs to forgive himself for helping to set up the GC before he can move on.  I forgive him.  I hope he can forgive himself, move on with his life after the GC cult days and begin to feel loved.