GCx: Founded and Established on Oppression and Lies

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[Janet Easson Martin]

 2 Corinthians 11
The Message (MSG)

"Pseudo-Servants of God

 1-3Will you put up with a little foolish aside from me? Please, just for a moment. The thing that has me so upset is that I care about you so much—this is the passion of God burning inside me! I promised your hand in marriage to Christ, presented you as a pure virgin to her husband. And now I'm afraid that exactly as the Snake seduced Eve with his smooth patter, you are being lured away from the simple purity of your love for Christ.

 4-6It seems that if someone shows up preaching quite another Jesus than we preached—different spirit, different message—you put up with him quite nicely. But if you put up with these big-shot "apostles," why can't you put up with simple me? I'm as good as they are. It's true that I don't have their voice, haven't mastered that smooth eloquence that impresses you so much. But when I do open my mouth, I at least know what I'm talking about. We haven't kept anything back. We let you in on everything.

 I'm giving nobody grounds for lumping me in with those money-grubbing "preachers," vaunting themselves as something special. They're a sorry bunch—pseudo-apostles, lying preachers, crooked workers—posing as Christ's agents but sham to the core. And no wonder! Satan does it all the time, dressing up as a beautiful angel of light. So it shouldn't surprise us when his servants masquerade as servants of God.

Since you sit there in the judgment seat observing all these shenanigans, you can afford to humor an occasional fool who happens along. You have such admirable tolerance for impostors who rob your freedom, rip you off, steal you blind, put you down—even slap your face! I shouldn't admit it to you, but our stomachs aren't strong enough to tolerate that kind of stuff. "

"(19) You gladly put up with fools since you are so wise! (20) In fact, you even put up with anyone who enslaves you or exploits you or takes advantage of you or puts on airs or slaps you in the face."             _NIV

GOD'S WORD above reveals what Imposters DO - these are their identifying actions!

No one can refute a person's actual experience, what they saw, what they heard, or how they felt.  They are not that person.  No one has the right to tell someone that was or is not what they experienced.  (I am not talking about imagined or invented stories.  Very few people on this site have the time, energy, need, or ill-will to make up this stuff; besides christians are the last ones who want to speak negatively about others who call themselves christians, because the abusive behavior brings shame to the name of Christ.  BUT, we have much in the Bible that relates to false teaching and teachers. God chose to reveal it in the Eternal Scriptures so that HIS CHILDREN would not be wounded by it.)  


I have a question to those who attempt to shame, manipulate, guilt, and harrass (perhaps the biblical word is SLAP - used above) those who tell their personal experiences with the existence of Spiritual Abuse in GCx (past and present) with intent to prevent it and warn others:  

WAS PAUL OUT OF LINE WHEN HE PUBLICLY WROTE A LETTER TO MANY CHRISTIANS TO WARN THEM TO STAY AWAY FROM THESE IMPOSTERS WITH VERY HARSH LANGUAGE?  

OR IS IT GOD WHO IS OUT-OF-LINE, perhaps a little harsh with Spiritual Abusers?


This is not game play!  These are people's feelings, emotional stability, mental stability, financial stability, educational stability, job stability, family and friendship stability, and most of ALL spiritual stability at risk and at loss here.

I will hopefully no longer put up with those who manipulate, dominate, lord, push, or slap me around in the name of God.  The GREAT and TENDER Sheperd tells us with alarm and passion through Paul to discontinue any such relationships! I will keep on doing, by God's grace and ability, what he is calling me to do to cut the ground out from under those I have been witness to that SPIRITUALLY ABUSE.

In Truth,

Janet Easson Martin





 

[Neverbeengcm]

I am thankful that some people are able to see with clarity the problems with the Great Commission as it was set up and run from the beginning.  Most of the cult-ish ways are still in their doctrine today.  The entire thing is like a big pyramid scheme where the power, glory and money all eventually ends up in the hands of those who got into it at the beginning.  I can see why people like DrSam, Lone Gone and others who were in on the original scam are so protective of it.  I can feel it in their posts.  There must be a lot of repressed guilt in their hearts and souls.  

I hope these guys are able to forgive themselves, first of all.  Then, Pray that they ask for forgiveness from God and finally that they ask forgiveness from the people they have hurt the most.  They have taken innocent young souls from their loved ones, separated these kids from their families and led them to believe that the pastors are Gods who have been given the right to control the lives of their unsuspecting flock.

I pray for those who were there at the beginning of the scheme, the current pastor/leaders and for the families who have lost children to the Great Commission's controlling churches.

[ISU Alumna]

In the beginning the preaching of the Gospel was most important and church organization was non-existent.  We behaved as a club that naturally found it's own leaders and whose members all enthusiastically participated in the activities. We had one heart to reach the lost and were radical only in our commitment to such a dynamic paradigm of Christianity.

[....]

There were no lies,  no oppression.  We were as open with each other as we possibly could be.

Lone Gone, I find that I can pretty much agree with your description of the group... up to a point... that point being where you assert that there were "no lies, no oppression." The lies and the oppression started from the first moment I opened the door of my dormitory room and listened to what two nice people had to say about the Bible. Preaching the gospel was never enough for McCotter & Co. They sought to reel people in, step by step, until everyone had become entirely assimilated.

After all these years, I've long since exhausted my ability to feel any regret about the choices I made back then. But still, I think it's important to learn lessons from the past. Who knows -- maybe some day, my grandchildren will be howling with laughter, saying, "Grandma did what? No way! That's ridiculous!" And I'll want to be able to tell them what I learned from my experience. I'll want to point out what to beware of, when you're part of a group that is pressuring you into doing things that aren't right.

For example, if I had known then what I know now, here's where a warning flag should have gone up: In the summer of 1978, when it was announced that the elders had decided exactly how we should block out our calendars. Every single one of us. It started with something called "Ten Nights on the Mountain" (or something to that effect), where we spent every single evening all together, getting pumped up emotionally. Then we spent the ensuing weeks following the church's schedule -- every single day of the week! We had one evening for this group, another evening for that group, and we were even commanded to devote one evening a week to something called "household enrichment"! Now, if you're married and have a family, one evening a week is far too little family time; and if you're a student, one evening a week might be far too much for hanging around with your roommates. The whole idea of everybody being on the same schedule really ought to have struck me as too freaking weird; but at the time, I had already been assimilated enough that it did not strike me at all.

Can you look back and pinpoint those moments when the red lights should have been flashing inside your mind? Shouldn't there have been some indication, right from the start, of how delusional Jim McCotter really is? Something was rotten from the start.

If you're not willing to learn from the past, then what's the point.

[DrSam]

I can see why people like DrSam, Lone Gone and others who were in on the original scam are so protective of it.  I can feel it in their posts.  There must be a lot of repressed guilt in their hearts and souls.  

I hope these guys are able to forgive themselves, first of all.  Then, Pray that they ask for forgiveness from God and finally that they ask forgiveness from the people they have hurt the most.

Dude,

You still don't get it!

First, what you insist on and call "protectiveness" is simply LongGone, myself, and others simply trying to be balanced and not have a "black or white" outlook. Similar to St. Peter cutting off the ear of the High Priest's servant. Kinda an overboard and misplaced reaction. To me, it seems you want to crucify everyone in GC and you will not desist until folks do things exactly as YOU say.

Second, you have no idea how much we have sought amends with anyone we can come up with that we may have unknowingly offended in our youthfulness.

Thirdly, I have a clean conscience in terms of my relationship with my God and fellowmen. LongGone even shared with you my past discussions with him.

Fourthly, it appears you have taken up your wife's wounds and made it a life-ambition to seek some form of justice. I can only say, that there are better things in life to do before life passes you by. It is more fruitful to simply work this out with a professional person who is competent at helping people heal from their traumas. This avoids a lot of wasted energy, and maybe years.

Fifthly, I somehow think this will not suffice you but you will continue to want to exhume all dead carcasses indefinitely.

Bye.

[Neverbeengcm]

DrSam,

Your last post was a continuing example of you trying to silence people from telling their personal stories of oppression while in GCx.  You have even tried making this some kind of warped personal attack on me...again.  I am beginning to wonder about you as a doctor. No showing of compassion toward those who have suffered...only defense of the criminals?  Do you want me to list the numerous ways GCx has hurt families, innocent young adults and relationships between friends...again?  

YOU CAN'T STOP PEOPLE FROM TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT GCx
Not only are you trying to use your phsycho-babble to try to hypnotise me and others into staying silent.  You also have attempted to control us into using our time in the way you feel is productive.  Nice try...NOT!!!  When are you going to figure out that you can't control people.  The GCx wants to control people.  That is the point ya know.

Good luck in trying to silence everyone.  You are still trying to shore up your defenses because of the extensive part you played in setting up the original GC structure.  I will continue to pray for you and those who have been hurt by your actions.  

[calgal]

Dr. Sam:

I am perplexed.  You seem to push what has been your experience and your recovery on to the rest of us.  Please don't do this.  This surely was not the intent of those who chose to start this forum.  This is for us to heal ... I love to hear Linda and Agatha's healing words.  Yours are like sandpaper and offers us no healing.  And I will admit, I need healing.

I was a young college student in the early 1980s who listened to your sermons and those of Jim McCotter and others, there were tapes on Sunday Morning in our transplant church "God's Will for your Life" and videos too ... (the leaders sent were not allowed to share from scripture themselves) .. Remember Daylights? How many of those did you write? ... the Leadership Training Conferences?  I was affected by you and by the system you chose to perpetuate. I have never heard any apology from you or any current or former GCx pastor.  No, we didn't have little sit downs, but don't you see that you were part of what has cause so much hurt in my life and so many others?  I lost more than 12 years of my life, I lost the ability to sit in church for more than 5 minutes without a panic attack for many years ... I can't to this day to call any minister a "pastor" to his face ...  And here you are telling me to:

to be balanced and not have a "black or white" outlook

After what I experienced and what many others have? Are you kidding me???  When it comes to GCx, Jim McCotter and to every former Leader of GCx who defends the former and current sytem, I have every right to view the system and doctrine as unbalanced and I feel black and white about that.

I have had the unfortunate occasion to be physically raped as well.  I think rather black and white about this as well. The man who forced himself upon me for his gratification was WRONG just like those current and former GCx leaders who force themselves on the weak do.  When I felt safe enough to heal, I had flashbacks, I healed through this experience, and the panic attacks have stopped. I am thankful to God that I have healed.  

To have someone EMOTIONALLY AND SPIRITUALLY rape you for year after year after year, questioning your judgment, your love for God via your ability to submit to your local ‘authority’ … and all that goes with the GCx line of thinking.  Well, Dr. Sam, that is a lot for this gal to work on in one day, one week, one year.  The flashbacks, the recalled conversations, the warped thinking. Do you know it took me about 16 years to start to even consider what had happen to me?  When you are a single mother of three boys, trying to feed them, keep their best interests in mind, you don’t often think of your own needs. Well, this site is this for this ... so back off and just hink about what you call yourself ... a Dr. of what?

You have caused a lot of us enough hurt already ... Mr. Sam.

[DrSam]

DrSam,

Your last post was a continuing example of you trying to silence people from telling their personal stories of oppression while in GCx.  You have even tried making this some kind of warped personal attack on me...again.  I am beginning to wonder about you as a doctor. No showing of compassion toward those who have suffered...only defense of the criminals?  Do you want me to list the numerous ways GCx has hurt families, innocent young adults and relationships between friends...again?  

YOU CAN'T STOP PEOPLE FROM TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT GCx
Not only are you trying to use your phsycho-babble to try to hypnotise me and others into staying silent.  You also have attempted to control us into using our time in the way you feel is productive.  Nice try...NOT!!!  When are you going to figure out that you can't control people.  The GCx wants to control people.  That is the point ya know.

Good luck in trying to silence everyone.  You are still trying to shore up your defenses because of the extensive part you played in setting up the original GC structure.  I will continue to pray for you and those who have been hurt by your actions.  

Never been,

Answering you is practically impossible. I answered you in my last post because you insist and continue to misrepresent me. You do not know me. I was hoping to correct your distortions. Apparently that is simply impossible. Enjoy yourself and knock yourself out.

[DrSam]

Calgal,

I have not personally apologize to you because I don't know you and have already written on this forum plenty on the matter. I recommend you contact GC and bring to them your concerns. I have done so with my concerns. I left a long time ago. If you have any personal beef with me you are welcome to send me a private message and I will try to respond.

You may want to see this recent development:
http://www.gccweb.org/about/history/reconciliations

Dr. Sam:

I am perplexed.  You seem to push what has been your experience and your recovery on to the rest of us.  Please don't do this.  This surely was not the intent of those who chose to start this forum.  This is for us to heal ... I love to hear Linda and Agatha's healing words.  Yours are like sandpaper and offers us no healing.  And I will admit, I need healing.

I was a young college student in the early 1980s who listened to your sermons and those of Jim McCotter and others, there were tapes on Sunday Morning in our transplant church "God's Will for your Life" and videos too ... (the leaders sent were not allowed to share from scripture themselves) .. Remember Daylights? How many of those did you write? ... the Leadership Training Conferences?  I was affected by you and by the system you chose to perpetuate. I have never heard any apology from you or any current or former GCx pastor.  No, we didn't have little sit downs, but don't you see that you were part of what has cause so much hurt in my life and so many others?  I lost more than 12 years of my life, I lost the ability to sit in church for more than 5 minutes without a panic attack for many years ... I can't to this day to call any minister a "pastor" to his face ...  And here you are telling me to:

to be balanced and not have a "black or white" outlook

After what I experienced and what many others have? Are you kidding me???  When it comes to GCx, Jim McCotter and to every former Leader of GCx who defends the former and current sytem, I have every right to view the system and doctrine as unbalanced and I feel black and white about that.

I have had the unfortunate occasion to be physically raped as well.  I think rather black and white about this as well. The man who forced himself upon me for his gratification was WRONG just like those current and former GCx leaders who force themselves on the weak do.  When I felt safe enough to heal, I had flashbacks, I healed through this experience, and the panic attacks have stopped. I am thankful to God that I have healed.  

To have someone EMOTIONALLY AND SPIRITUALLY rape you for year after year after year, questioning your judgment, your love for God via your ability to submit to your local ‘authority’ … and all that goes with the GCx line of thinking.  Well, Dr. Sam, that is a lot for this gal to work on in one day, one week, one year.  The flashbacks, the recalled conversations, the warped thinking. Do you know it took me about 16 years to start to even consider what had happen to me?  When you are a single mother of three boys, trying to feed them, keep their best interests in mind, you don’t often think of your own needs. Well, this site is this for this ... so back off and just hink about what you call yourself ... a Dr. of what?

You have caused a lot of us enough hurt already ... Mr. Sam.

[Neverbeengcm]

MrSam,

I truly do appreciate the way you try to mediate this forum by your attempts at helping the victims of GCx to "simmer down".  But, you of all people should know that many psycholgists use therapy sessions to allow their patients to vent and even encourage them to find ways to vent their pent up angers in a safe way. You take that away from them when you tell people to stop saying disparaging things about GCx. Please consider allowing and even encouraging people to vent by telling their stories here without fear from being oppressed by you.  That is what this topic is: GCx Founded and established on Oppression and lies.

Please respond on my posting on how I feel the GCx was established if you can clarify some part of that discussion. I am still trying to figure this whole GCx thing out in my own way. The things I see from the current leaders leads me to believe that there have not been any significant changes in the system.  

These are the things I see as problems with the GCx church that were there from the beginning that are not much different today:

-Too much power is given to the leaders by falsely interpreting the Bible into saying that God wants people to “submit” to the church leaders.  In reality, the Bible does not say we must ask our church leaders to make personal decisions for us.  That is just a result of bad interpretations of the Bible.

-Women are not considered to be as important as men in the GCx.  No women are included in any real church decision making.  Elders are all men, pastors are all men and even ushers are all men.  Women simply are not respected as equal human beings when compared to men in the GCx.

-Dating is controlled by the church. Young men and women have always been the primary targets of the church.  The plan is obvious.  Get young minds involved in the church and then separate them from society in any way possible. The Bible does not say anything about dating or giving the powers to decide mates to the church.  However, GCx churches somehow have warped the minds of their followers into believing that the Bible has directed them to take those very personal decisions away from the followers and given the authority to choose who a person dates to the Pastors.  That is one way to control whether a person has a chance to date anyone outside the church flock.

-Almost every day of the week has a church function of some kind.   There is little free time for church members to associate with others who do not attend the GCx church. Controlling of a person’s personal schedule should not be included in the rights of a pastor.

-Open discussion of the pastor’s interpretation of a specific Bible verse is discouraged.  Members of GCx churches do not feel free to discuss the Bible openly.  Pastors are given the only green light to say what the Bible says.  If a GCx member disagrees with what the pastor says, there is retribution and reprogramming to guide this (supposedly misguided) person back into agreeing with whatever the pastor says.  Open discussions about the Bible are considered to be insurrection and are dealt with in really bizarre ways. Those of us outside the church can see these kinds of things with clarity.  Those trapped in the church are not given a chance to decide for themselves.

-People who leave the church are regarded as being possessed by the devil (or some other strange terms) if they go because they don’t agree with the church’s doctrine. The right to make decisions as an individual is taken away from church members and given to the pastors/leaders.  If a person leaves the church for any reason other than moving.  They are shunned and treated as though they are lost souls.

-Women are expected to “submit” to their husbands.  We all know the subtle inference this statement brings with it.  Women are here to please their husbands sexually. Men are encouraged to honor their wives in different ways than women are to honor their husbands…so much for equal rights.

-Everyone in the church is expected to defend the church’s doctrine in and report any insurrection to the pastor/leaders.  This encourages gossip in the church and makes anyone who does not believe even the dumbest statement by the pastor as a “non-believer”. There are too many examples of that happening to even start listing them in a brief paragraph.


I agree with you on some accounts, Sam...Sometimes I can be brash and I don't always agree with the things you say.  I have a strong need to protect those who I feel need it.  I believe that is a gift from God. I may not always do or say things that others want to hear.  But, I do have faith that God helps people like you and me to grow as Christians by posting here.  Who knows, maybe we will become friends after learning to see things from each other's perspectives.

God bless

[DrSam]

Neverbeen...

Sorry but I don't have the emotional energy in me to specifically answer each and every one of your concerns. Those pertaining to GC... I would recommend you pick up the phone and call or email the GC leadership. I left a bunch of years ago. I don't know what they officially believe much these days. I moved on with my life as I have healed. All I can say is that when I was pastoring churches that I was part of starting, that I was not the kind of pastor you described here. You can ask those who knew me in those congregations. Maybe that is why I eventually did not fit. I taught about healthy boundaries, having your own walk with God, how scripture is open to lots of interpretations, and that no one person sees all, and, yes, we need each other. I did not care how folks dated or not. I saw myself as simply another Christian brother available to facilitate the journey since I knew where some potholes were in life. That's all.

As for psychotherapy... first, this is not a forum for such, and second, I don't feel that ventilation means you have "carte blanche" to insult and disrespect others. I sometimes have to stop my patients for getting so roused up and look at themselves getting out of control. I tell them that should concern them and is an indicator of how deep their wound is and their need to IMMEDIATELY take care of their hurts before they hurt others also! (Not to mention that their bodies will start to break down as a symptom of their trauma emotions). I am empathetic but also frank, just like a surgeon would be in telling truth about a person's disease.

That's how the "grapefruit squirts."

MrSam,

I truly do appreciate the way you try to mediate this forum by your attempts at helping the victims of GCx to "simmer down".  But, you should know that many psycholgists use therapy sessions to allow their patients to vent and even encouragethem to find ways to vent their pent up angers in a safe way. You take that away from them when you tell peopel to stop saying dispariging things about GCx. Please consider allowing and even encouraging people to vent by telling their stories here without fear from being oppressed by you.  That is what this topic is: GCx Founded and established on Oppression and lies.

Please respond on my posting on how I feel the GCx was established if you can clarify some part of that discussion. I am still trying to figure this whole GCx thing out in my own way. The things I see from the current leaders leads me to believe that there have not been any significant changes in the system.  

These are the things I see as problems with the GCx church that were there from the beginning that are not much different today:

-Too much power is given to the leaders by falsely interpreting the Bible into saying that God wants people to “submit” to the church leaders.  In reality, the Bible does not say we must ask our church leaders to make personal decisions for us.  That is just a result of bad interpretations of the Bible.

-Women are not considered to be as important as men in the GCx.  No women are included in any real church decision making.  Elders are all men, pastors are all men and even ushers are all men.  Women simply are not respected as equal human beings when compared to men in the GCx.

-Dating is controlled by the church. Young men and women have always been the primary targets of the church.  The plan is obvious.  Get young minds involved in the church and then separate them from society in any way possible. The Bible does not say anything about dating or giving the powers to decide mates to the church.  However, GCx churches somehow have warped the minds of their followers into believing that the Bible has directed them to take those very personal decisions away from the followers and given the authority to choose who a person dates to the Pastors.  That is one way to control whether a person has a chance to date anyone outside the church flock.

-Almost every day of the week has a church function of some kind.   There is little free time for church members to associate with others who do not attend the GCx church. Controlling of a person’s personal schedule should not be included in the rights of a pastor.

-Open discussion of the pastor’s interpretation of a specific Bible verse is discouraged.  Members of GCx churches do not feel free to discuss the Bible openly.  Pastors are given the only green light to say what the Bible says.  If a GCx member disagrees with what the pastor says, there is retribution and reprogramming to guide this (supposedly misguided) person back into agreeing with whatever the pastor says.  Open discussions about the Bible are considered to be insurrection and are dealt with in really bizarre ways. Those of us outside the church can see these kinds of things with clarity.  Those trapped in the church are not given a chance to decide for themselves.

-People who leave the church are regarded as being possessed by the devil (or some other strange terms) if they go because they don’t agree with the church’s doctrine. The right to make decisions as an individual is taken away from church members and given to the pastors/leaders.  If a person leaves the church for any reason other than moving.  They are shunned and treated as though they are lost souls.

-Women are expected to “submit” to their husbands.  We all know the subtle inference this statement brings with it.  Women are here to please their husbands sexually. Men are encouraged to honor their wives in different ways than women are to honor their husbands…so much for equal rights.

-Everyone in the church is expected to defend the church’s doctrine in and report any insurrection to the pastor/leaders.  This encourages gossip in the church and makes anyone who does not believe even the dumbest statement by the pastor as a “non-believer”. There are too many examples of that happening to even start listing them in a brief paragraph.


I agree with you on some accounts, Sam...Sometimes I can be brash and I don't always agree with the things you say.  I have a strong need to protect those who I feel need it.  I believe that is a gift from God. I may not always do or say things that others want to hear.  But, I do have faith that God helps people like you and me to grow as Christians by posting here.  Who knows, maybe we will become friends after learning to see things from each other's perspectives.

God bless

[Neverbeengcm]

Neverbeen...

Sorry but I don't have the emotional energy in me to specifically answer each and every one of your concerns. Those pertaining to GC... I would recommend you pick up the phone and call or email the GC leadership. I left a bunch of years ago. I don't know what they officially believe much these days. I moved on with my life as I have healed. All I can say is that when I was pastoring churches that I was part of starting, that I was not the kind of pastor you described here. You can ask those who knew me in those congregations. Maybe that is why I eventually did not fit. I taught about healthy boundaries, having your own walk with God, how scripture is open to lots of interpretations, and that no one person sees all, and, yes, we need each other. I did not care how folks dated or not. I saw myself as simply another Christian brother available to facilitate the journey since I knew where some potholes were in life. That's all.

Sam,

I understand that you tried to preach in the right way and not follow the GC doctrine.  They handled you in the same manner they handle all who believe in human rights in the same way you do. I know you believe you have gotten past the point where you feel the hurt.   Time heals a lot of wounds.  But, some folks are not at the same place in their healing process as you.  THey are just trying to escape this tough situation that they have themselves in.  Why not let them tell their stories without getting admonished by other posters or pastors in GC Churches?


Everyone deserves to have a chance to express their views in their own words. I truly believe that freedom of expression and intelligent discussion helps us all to grow spiritually and as individuals.  Here is one of my favorite quotes:

The true test of intelligence isn't knowledge...it's imagination ~ Albert Einstein

[calgal]

NeverBeen:

You remind me of the movie "Jerry McGuire" ...remember ...  "Show me the Money" ....?

You are a bit refreshing to me and maybe others who were brought up in the GCx doctrine ... cuz you don't talk like us

May I give you a new nickname?

"Show me the love?"  You seem to be our advocates for healing and God's love ... thankx!

Calgal