How Many GCers Does It Take. . .

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[Valley Noir]

In another thread, just dipping my toes said:

:wink: Joking, joking…… Speaking of jokes and screwed, I bet someone here could come up with a really good punchline to the old classic “How many ex-GCer’s does it take to screw in a lightbulb?”

Seeing as this is a question that just begs for satire, and the "just for fun" heading discourages discussion of all things GCx, I have to indulge my foolery here.

I ask my fellow posters: How many GCers does it take to change a lightbulb?

After due consideration, and with tongue firmly planted in cheek, I give my answer as follows:  no less than 6, and probably more.

First, you need Jim McCotter to teach the one-and-only correct way to change a lightbulb.  Christians may have been changing lightbulbs for more than a hundred years, but none of them have been doing it the correct way.  This explains why, in the last hundred years, Christians have not managed to change all the nations' lightbulbs, and, sadly, many burnt-out bulbs remain unchanged.

Second, you must have at least three godly men who share Jim McCotter's vision for changing all the lightbulbs, and who meet the scriptural qualifications for the office of elder.  They must be three in number, because one would be a monality, and two would be a mere duality; no, only with three can you accomplish the plurality of leadership that is required to vanquish all possibility of error in the changing of lightbulbs.

Third, you must have at least one small group leader, who shares Jim McCotter's vision for changing all the nations' lightbulbs, and who submits to the authority of the local elders' leadership.  This is a person with a teachable heart who is on fire for God and invests in other godly men's lives, teaching them the correct way to change lightbulbs, in order that more bulbs might be changed.  This person will follow the elders' instruction regarding the proper changing of lightbulbs, assist less mature believers who reach out to unlit bulbs, and rebuke them if they change bulbs in an unworthy manner, or spend too much time thinking about something else than changing lightbulbs.  The small group leader should also keep track of believers' progress in changing bulbs, and report any problems to the elders.

Fourth, you must have the individual believer who reaches out to the unchanged bulbs in his life by building relationships with them, spending quality time hanging out by lamps and lighting fixtures, until each bulb sees the Light in the believer's life and wants to be changed, at which point the believer changes the bulb.

Finally, you need a body of believers to "encourage" the individual believer to reach out to the unchanged bulbs in his life.  The body does this by demonstrating the proper method for changing bulbs in their own lives, and going to the elders or the small group leader if they have questions about the individual believer's commitment to change bulbs, so the elders can "build up" that believer.  However, the body will not discuss different ways to change bulbs, as this may threaten the unity of the body; nor shall they cause division by criticizing the correct way to change lightbulbs.

I do not include in my calculation the ex-GCers, who will observe bulbs being changed in normal, healthy ways and  experience flashbacks of how they were manipulated by authoritarian leaders into changing bulbs.  As these people can't get over their own hurt and do not actually participate in the changing of a lightbulb by a GCer, they are not important in God's Kingdom and do not count.  They are thus doomed to sit in the dark, surrounded by unchanged bulbs.

So I say, no less than six.

[puff of purple smoke]

Thank you for answering that very important question.  

[theresearchpersona]

While there's a place for humor, and even poignant humorous criticism, is that what this is guys?

Please be careful about stuff that might [wrongfully] insult or defame GCMers as they are siblings (though honestly with some of the things taught in evangelism etc., and from observational experience, I *think* there may be somewhat of a false-convert problem too). We're told not to be given to jesting, so in serious subjects, and we are told to be grave and sober, please be cautious.

[namaste]

While there's a place for humor, and even poignant humorous criticism, is that what this is guys?

Please be careful about stuff that might [wrongfully] insult or defame GCMers as they are siblings (though honestly with some of the things taught in evangelism etc., and from observational experience, I *think* there may be somewhat of a false-convert problem too). We're told not to be given to jesting, so in serious subjects, and we are told to be grave and sober, please be cautious.

TRP-
Does that go both ways?  I see a lot of "don't unfairly attack GCx," but I really don't see so much "GCx should unfairly attack those on de-commed."

Why the double standard?

And for Pete's sake (because we want to keep Pete happy, hehehe), it's a joke!

[puff of purple smoke]

I didn't think it was anything that offensive?

This part especially reflects what the early movement believed about McCotter:

First, you need Jim McCotter to teach the one-and-only correct way to change a lightbulb. Christians may have been changing lightbulbs for more than a hundred years, but none of them have been doing it the correct way. This explains why, in the last hundred years, Christians have not managed to change all the nations' lightbulbs, and, sadly, many burnt-out bulbs remain unchanged.

[theresearchpersona]

I understand this, however most GCM attendees wouldn't even know much about McCotter or the history, and the history they have is incomplete and wrested.

Just asking for caution, not offering condemnation here. : )

Thanks.

[namaste]

While there's a place for humor, and even poignant humorous criticism, is that what this is guys?

Please be careful about stuff that might [wrongfully] insult or defame GCMers as they are siblings (though honestly with some of the things taught in evangelism etc., and from observational experience, I *think* there may be somewhat of a false-convert problem too). We're told not to be given to jesting, so in serious subjects, and we are told to be grave and sober, please be cautious.

Well ain't that the pot calling the kettle black!  :roll:

[theresearchpersona]

While there's a place for humor, and even poignant humorous criticism, is that what this is guys?

Please be careful about stuff that might [wrongfully] insult or defame GCMers as they are siblings (though honestly with some of the things taught in evangelism etc., and from observational experience, I *think* there may be somewhat of a false-convert problem too). We're told not to be given to jesting, so in serious subjects, and we are told to be grave and sober, please be cautious.

Well ain't that the pot calling the kettle black!  :roll:

How is that? There's a difference between "kritikos" (being "critical" as in discerning and examining) and jesting: we should make jokes about even possible siblings; Christians are constantly commanded and reminded "be sober". "Be sober".

There's a place for humor...not, however, in reproving those in error (like GCM); how many people here and elsewhere were hurt as GCMers made-up cheap jokes, skits, dramas, and even films making fun of critics (who were often correct anyways), hmm?

You still haven't dealt with the substance of what I've been saying. And notice I haven't been very joking about it either, because those matters aren't funny, aren't unimportant, and require seriousness and care.

How important is it, to criticize one batch of error...then leave the same sources of teachings from which they come, and similar systems with only rhetoric defending it being different (and not of kind, but degree, and poorly disimilar), untouched?

[Zippymdb]

Thank you so much for posting this. I got a good laugh out of it.

[Linda]

Sometimes I laugh and joke about things I heard there or experienced there to keep from crying. Probably immature, I know, but it's how I'm dealing with things.

As a Christian parent who took her children to this place for 10 years, we tried to raise our children in a way that they would know and love God and be protected from major bad influences. Things like the drug culture, from the influence of having lots and lots of non-Christian friends, from materialism, etc. The one place it never occurred to me to protect my children from was the church we went to. This saddens me and sickens me. I was a fool.

[theresearchpersona]

Paul was constantly stressing to be aware; something Church's don't often mention is that much of the NT's purpose is actually to contend against error; the epistles especially; they're written to be combative, though people might cry "NOOOO" to that these day, but it's true. Paul wrote that he was for three years, in tears, giving warning about who would rise-up after his departure.

Church's also don't seem to teach, anymore, about real discernment; we're constantly told to be discerning, critical, aware, "viglant", and it's not toward simply cults and other faiths; more we're told to be aware of those who claim that of the faith deliverd by Christ and His apostles, and even given criteria by which to test those who make the claim.

Verry sorry that they never told you about this. Very very sorry that all that time was taken...but also I'm glad that you know now: and I hope you count it all a loss for Christ's sake, and can heal and move-on to bring Him glory according to His Word and not the dreams and visions of men. I'm also sure of this: that He is more than adequate for our consolation and comfort...something I'm learning over again even now.

[Linda]

Just to clarify, I was totally aware of the need for discernment.

It may come as a surprise to some, but I am not generally a confrontational person. I have in the past seen many pastors (we are blessed to have many relatives and friends who are pastors and missionaries) treated unfairly by people in their congregations for taking bold stands on matters of sin and was in no way interested in troubling the pastors at my church. So, as a result, I overlooked a lot of what I now see was bad teaching in the interest of honoring the leaders.

You need to remember that a recurring theme at my church was Korah's rebellion and similar stories. Loyalty to leaders, obedience, commitment, or the earth may swallow you up. Who wants to be the troublemaker?

For many people, John 3:16 is the verse that comes to mind if you ask them to quote the first verse that pops in their head. For me it is Hebrews 13:17 because that was the verse that was harped on over and over.

As I see it discernment isn't something that needs to be "taught", but something that has to be prayerfully and thoughtfully DONE. It requires guidance from the Holy Spirit and a knowledge of sound doctrine. It requires boldness to take on leaders who teach error and boldness to continue to stand up for truth when they write you letters telling you that you are slanderous and divisive and begin to shun you as a result.

I agree, God is more than adequate for our consolation and comfort, His grace is sufficient, and for me, sometimes, it comes in the form of humor. I found Valley Noir's original post (with the tongue in cheek disclaimer) just that.

[puff of purple smoke]

I understand this, however most GCM attendees wouldn't even know much about McCotter or the history, and the history they have is incomplete and wrested.

So in that case would they even understand the joke at all? I mean, in order to get mad at "First, you need Jim McCotter to teach the one-and-only correct way to change a lightbulb. Christians may have been changing lightbulbs for more than a hundred years, but none of them have been doing it the correct way." you'd have to understand the history of the movement, and Jim McCotter's belief that he was recreating the New Testament church because he thought everyone else was getting it wrong. Otherwise, you'd just be scratching your head and wondering who the heck Jim McCotter is. And if that leads them to surf the web a bit, well, good!

Oh well. I guess I am just not really offended at a light bulb joke. Even if it was directed towards ex-members I doubt I would care. It's a light bulb joke...