Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

You may read and post, but some features are restricted to registered members. Please consider registering to gain full access! Registration is free and only takes a few moments to complete.
De-Commissioned Forum
March 24, 2026, 07:08:35 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home   Forum   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: How Not to Start a Cult/Sect  (Read 16095 times)
Linda
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2529



« on: November 12, 2012, 02:22:02 pm »

John Piper is preaching his last few sermons at Bethlehem Baptist as the preaching pastor. As he prepares to leave, he is doing a series on what he views are the significant aspects of what he wishes to leave with the congregation. He chooses the word "trademark", but goes on to explain what he means. What he says is very insightful. Especially the part about listening to old teachers/theologians/reformers/founders of the faith. Here is what he said yesterday:


When you hear me say that we are in a series of messages on the thirty-year theological trademarks of Bethlehem, don’t think niche branding. Don’t think “thirty-year exclusives.” I don’t even like the word distinctives. It seems to connote a desire to be doctrinally different from others. Our mindset is exactly the opposite. We’re suspicious of being different from the historic teachings of the church. The last thing we want to preach is new doctrines exclusive to us. When we say “trademarks” we mean truths that are defining and shaping and precious. We don’t mean views that we’ve come up with and that set us off from the rest of the church of Christ. We don’t want to be set off. We want to be arm in arm with millions of faithful followers of God’s word. Truth does divide. But it also unites. And it is the uniting power of truth that we delight in most.

So we are always testing our interpretations of the Bible by looking back into church history. If we can’t find our interpretations there, we would be very slow to preach them in this pulpit. Cults and sects are born in the minds of leaders who crave to be different. Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, the Unification Church, Christian Science—these were born in the minds of teachers who wanted new revelations and interpretations, and found them. They were restless with the limitation of the Bible and its historic understandings.

There is a lot of healthy and warranted warning these days about historical hero worship. Warnings about inordinate and uncritical admiration and imitation of historical teachers like Augustine, Aquinas, Calvin, Luther, the Puritans, Edwards, Wesley, Spurgeon, Barth, Chesterton, Lewis, etc. But we should be careful not to overdo this criticism. People with great historical heroes tend not to think of themselves as heroes. They're too busy learning from them. Which means that, for all its dangers, admiring a great line of historical heroes will at least keep you from starting a sect.


I think that is the message I wish GC would hear. Their desire to be different, to be THE church that does 1st Century Christianity RIGHT, not only exposes their pride, but is a cause of division with the Church. And, it has landed them on sect/cult watch lists.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 09:40:42 pm by Linda » Logged

Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
EverAStudent
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 719



WWW
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2012, 08:54:07 pm »

Quote from: Linda
Which means that, for all its dangers, admiring great a great line of historical heroes will at least keep you from starting a sect.
Linda, I much appreciate your many posts and insights over the years.  But not so much the above.  The above sentiment is factually untrue and genuinely unbiblical at its core.  

Throughout the ages many (if not most) aberrant religious sects and political cults have been built on the names and reputations of heroes.  Merely admiring great historical figures and naming their names does not prevent one from inventing new derivative (and faulty) philosophies and calling up thousands of followers to adhere to your new sectarian philosophy.  

What do the Scriptures say about how cults start?  Paul warned us sternly that sects ARE built on the names and reputations of great men (e.g. Apollos, Paul, and even Peter -- 1 Cor.1).  A sect or a cult is divisive specifically because it DOES idolize a particular set of famed men and their specific teachings, regardless of whether those men are living or dead and seeks to have others follow them as well.  

This is what happpened with McCotter.  He built his cult on the basis of being another in the line of biblical apostles, like Paul.  Then he called on others to be like himself, to live like himself, because he claimed he was imitating Paul.  Then he separated himself and his followers from all other Christian churches (in the name of being like Paul) and built himself a great sect, an individual following.  

Ephesians 4 gives the actual remedy for resisting cultic movements:  know the Word of God inside and out in a mature fashion.  

I do apologize for disagreeing with you, Linda.  Nonetheless, cult-proofing is not grounded in following the teachings of famous men but on learning for oneself the Word of God inside and out to the point where it is possible for a person to point to anyone's teachings, even those of the great men, and to accurately say, "That doctrine of his is true at this point and false at this element because the Scriptures teach this."  
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 08:58:32 pm by EverAStudent » Logged
Linda
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2529



« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2012, 09:34:17 pm »

EAS,

First of all, Piper was not discussing "cult-proofing". Not his point. This was a preface to a talk that he was giving on teaching that he wanted to emphasize as he left his preaching position, but wanted people to understand that it wasn't "special" and he didn't have a desire to set his teaching up as better. In context,  that is what he was saying. Pulled out of context, the statement you quoted makes little sense.

Secondly, he was talking about not specifically following one teacher. He was not saying that cult-proofing is grounded in following the teachings of famous men. In fact, he was saying the opposite and emphasizing that Christians shouldn't take lightly the Biblical teaching that came before representing the views of millions of Christ followers throughout the ages. I think the key part of the quote is "admiring a great line".

He went on to discuss the solas. Clearly, he is a sola scripture guy.

I don't care if you disagree with me. No need to apologize.

My reason for posting this was to say that a church that presents itself and its teaching as "set off" from the Church of Christ is a church to look out for. I would hate for people to miss that point.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 09:42:44 pm by Linda » Logged

Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
EverAStudent
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 719



WWW
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2012, 11:14:45 pm »

Quote from: Linda
First of all, Piper was not discussing "cult-proofing". Not his point.

Hi Linda,

I see, I guess I misunderstood the title you put on the thread ("How Not to Start a Cult/Sect") along with your quote that stated that admiring the great historical figures of the past "will keep you from starting a sect" (a statement I still find to be invalid, expanded explanation and context not withstanding). 

In any case, as always, I do wish you great blessings and ever progressive growth in Christ.
Logged
Linda
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2529



« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2012, 06:36:33 am »

There are several things GC holds near and dear. Plurality of elders (that really isn't all that accountable, as it turns out). Raising elders from within. "Doing church like Paul."

The point I was trying to make is that if you have a sense of Church history and classical Christian theology in addition to knowledge of the Scripture, you won't brag and say things like, "Men, God has given us something special." You don't set yourself up as different and better than most churches. Sects/cults do things like that.

What he is not saying is "Find yourself a guy and follow him." Key words in the part you quoted were "for all its dangers" and "a great line (as opposed to one)".

« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 02:29:07 pm by Linda » Logged

Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1929



« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2012, 01:49:56 pm »

Linda,

Thanks for posting the important point above.  Perhaps he chose that message because the bible says in the last days, false teaching will increase.  Perhaps God put on his heart the SOBER WARNING below.  It does agree with what (1 or 2?) Timothy 6:2-4 states:

'False Teachers and the Love of Money

These are the things you are to teach and insist on. 3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions'


It does seem that when teachers/preachers emphasize something OTHER THAN, DIFFERENT, NEW, BETTER, MORE ENLIGHTENED that does not agree with sound teaching of Jesus taught by many historically sound bible teachers that a red flashing light should go off over their head.  Just believing God about what he has said and with his HELP doing it provides enough excitement and drama for more than a lifetime.  No extra-scriptural requirements are needed, or are safe to our faith for that matter.

GCx has definitely added hard and weighty BURDENS to the easy and light yoke of the christian life.

Thanks again,

Janet Easson Martin

« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 09:26:57 am by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.1.1