How would you warn a potential recruit?

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[Huldah]

From a strictly doctrinal standpoint, dealing with issues that are fairly central to the faith, are there any proof texts you'd use to warn an unwary seeker away from GCx churches?

Here's the background to my question. I was raised in a fundamentalist, Protestant church that adhered to the essentials of the faith. However, there was no training there on the finer points of doctrine or any practical advice on living a godly life. The pastors concentrated on evangelism or "rededication" (for those already saved) in their sermons, rather than equipping the saints for spiritual warfare. In this regard, Solid Rock filled a need in my life that no other church had ever done, up to that point.

If there had been any really obvious contradictions to the New Testament (things like, "Jesus came and preached to the American natives before he ascended into heaven"--"Only 144,000 believers will go to heaven"--"Besides having faith, there are other things you have to do to be saved,") I never would have given Solid Rock a chance. I trusted them because they seemed so Biblically sound. To this day, I can't think of any errors I heard there as far as the person and work of Christ Himself are concerned. It's true that Scripture was used to promote an elitist attitude, to obtain an unbiblical degree of submission to the elders, and to pit member against member, but it was harder to be objective about those things. When someone's preaching "another" Jesus, it's obvious. It's not always so obvious when they're manipulating the sheep, because conscientious sheep will often accept blame they don't deserve, especially when that blame comes from a trusted shepherd.

Scripturally, without regard to any anecdotal evidence of abuse, do you think someone could make a case for avoiding GCx churches? It was the abuse of people, rather than doctrinal error, that drove me away from my Solid Rock, but I've always wondered if anything in Scripture could have warned me before it got to that point, if I'd been paying closer attention.

[wastedyearsthere]

In the church I was in there was errant teaching about God's omniscience.  Somehow God limited His omniscience because of man's free will.  Many people left after that teaching.  It was questioned and the elders repeated these beliefs.

I tell potential recruits of this teaching.  I also tell them of the Elders belief that they have knowledge of God's will for them.  They need to be prepared to do what the Elders say unless they want to be labelled rebellious and out of God's Will.

[Huldah]

In the church I was in there was errant teaching about God's omniscience.  Somehow God limited His omniscience because of man's free will.  Many people left after that teaching.  It was questioned and the elders repeated these beliefs.

That's interesting. I didn't happen to hear that particular one, or if I did, it didn't sink in.

I also tell them of the Elders belief that they have knowledge of God's will for them.

Now, that one, I remember. I mentioned to a deacon's wife once that I was going to talk to an elder about whether to remain in college. She said I should also talk to her husband, "Because he knows you personally," which made sense to me. Later, though, she took me aside and apologized for saying that. She explained that the elders don't need to know me to advise me because God gives them wisdom--those may not have been her exact words, but that was the idea.

I also have a letter written to me shortly after I left by a friend who was still in the group. She said that one particular elder was going to be moving in with some of the single brothers until his wedding. She was sure the brothers were going to grow spiritually just by being in his proximity. Looking back now, that sounds like magical thinking.

[wastedyearsthere]

She was sure the brothers were going to grow spiritually just by being in his proximity.

Sounds more of the elitism and pride that is evident in the GCC churches.

[lone gone]

The worst offense of GC is their "forever married to the local Church" doctrine.

It is a doctrine that is extra-scriptural but based on Scripture.

That would be the most glaring "sound-bite" style argument that would make any sense to most people.

[EverAStudent]

I don't know if they are still teaching this, but they used to teach that GCx needed to be goverened by apostles.  They had been moving toward making the "national elders" into apostles, but I think they dropped that plan.

I also agree, concentrating on telling others that GCx is a "shepherding movement" practitioner will mean much to other people.  Typical of the shepherding movement, GCx requires obedience in all areas of life to pastoral opinion (e.g. who to marry, what job to hold, whether to get a college education, where to live, what church to join).  And of course, joining a church is to become married to the church.

It is unacceptable to literally question pastors as to their opinions, judgments, or teachings.  Those who raise questions can quickly become excommunicated on the grounds of "rebellion" and "divisiveness."

Finally, remind the recruit that it carries the name Great Commission because they see that evangelism is the all consuming goal of all of life.  All Scripture will be interpreted to find evangelism in it.  All decisions will be made to maximize evangelism (even to the detriment of financial soundness, health, family relations, child rearing, etc.).  Evangelism is not treated as a Christian good work, it is treated as THE good work.  Which probably explains why so little is done inside GCx with regard to counseling training, hermeneuitics training, etc.

This is a tough question since GCx is Christian, but immature, largely untrained, dictatorial, and unaware of their true condition (or disinterested in improving it).

[steelgirl]

I don't know if they are still teaching this, but they used to teach that GCx needed to be goverened by apostles.  They had been moving toward making the "national elders" into apostles, but I think they dropped that plan.

I also agree, concentrating on telling others that GCx is a "shepherding movement" practitioner will mean much to other people.  Typical of the shepherding movement, GCx requires obedience in all areas of life to pastoral opinion (e.g. who to marry, what job to hold, whether to get a college education, where to live, what church to join).  And of course, joining a church is to become married to the church.

It is unacceptable to literally question pastors as to their opinions, judgments, or teachings.  Those who raise questions can quickly become excommunicated on the grounds of "rebellion" and "divisiveness."

Finally, remind the recruit that it carries the name Great Commission because they see that evangelism is the all consuming goal of all of life.  All Scripture will be interpreted to find evangelism in it.  All decisions will be made to maximize evangelism (even to the detriment of financial soundness, health, family relations, child rearing, etc.).  Evangelism is not treated as a Christian good work, it is treated as THE good work.  Which probably explains why so little is done inside GCx with regard to counseling training, hermeneuitics training, etc.

This is a tough question since GCx is Christian, but immature, largely untrained, dictatorial, and unaware of their true condition (or disinterested in improving it).

Some people sure as Hell did not know why I got a degree in English since I struggled with finding a job.  4-7 yrs ago was hard.  I did not see what was going on until maybe at the end and definately now.   I will never put with authoritarism again in a church

[steelgirl]

I don't know if they are still teaching this, but they used to teach that GCx needed to be goverened by apostles.  They had been moving toward making the "national elders" into apostles, but I think they dropped that plan.

I also agree, concentrating on telling others that GCx is a "shepherding movement" practitioner will mean much to other people.  Typical of the shepherding movement, GCx requires obedience in all areas of life to pastoral opinion (e.g. who to marry, what job to hold, whether to get a college education, where to live, what church to join).  And of course, joining a church is to become married to the church.

It is unacceptable to literally question pastors as to their opinions, judgments, or teachings.  Those who raise questions can quickly become excommunicated on the grounds of "rebellion" and "divisiveness."

Finally, remind the recruit that it carries the name Great Commission because they see that evangelism is the all consuming goal of all of life.  All Scripture will be interpreted to find evangelism in it.  All decisions will be made to maximize evangelism (even to the detriment of financial soundness, health, family relations, child rearing, etc.).  Evangelism is not treated as a Christian good work, it is treated as THE good work.  Which probably explains why so little is done inside GCx with regard to counseling training, hermeneuitics training, etc.

This is a tough question since GCx is Christian, but immature, largely untrained, dictatorial, and unaware of their true condition (or disinterested in improving it).

Some people sure as Hell did not know why I got a degree in English since I struggled with finding a job.  4-7 yrs ago was hard.  I did not see what was going on until maybe at the end and definately now.   I will never put with authoritarism again in a church

[puff of purple smoke]

I would probably mention the dozens of newspaper articles referring to them as abusive and cultic. Or give them a link to the wikipedia article or this forum.

It's a lot easier to avoid a bad church before you join, rather than once you've become emotionally tangled up in it.

[wastedyearsthere]

When people tell me they go to that church I now tell people that I belong to a healing support group for people who have been spiritually abused in that church.......  
 
I also tell people that it has cult-like characteristics

[MidnightRider]

When people tell me they go to that church I now tell people that I belong to a healing support group for people who have been spiritually abused in that church.......

Don't stop there. What kind of reactions have you gotten?

[wastedyearsthere]

Most are defensive -- I had one woman very interested in this support group and I gave the web sites and sent her the information about GCC but she has been involved since the 70's so even though she has problems with the church her husband is very involved.  She is a professional and has been told that it is God's will for her to be in every church function and being a doctor of course she can't.....

Other people I mention it -- and sometimes they ask about what the problems with the church are (those not in the church that is) and others  just change the subject and move on.....

I now feel it is my Christian responsibility to warn people (especially new people to the community) about the Stonebrook church and no longer call it a "good" church in town.