I'm Damn Offended by GC's Blanket-Statements, again....

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[The Clone]

On the GCM wesite for this years LT, it says this:  

What is LT all about? LT is a summer program for believers who desire to be transformed into people who impact their world as they live out their faith.

»The Challenge
Taking a look at Western Christianity, most people who claim to be Christians are not making a significant impact on the people around them. Instead of influencing the world for God through their lives as Christ says believers will in Matthew 5:13-16, the majority have assimilated to the culture to the point that their lives are undistinguishable from anyone else’s.

Jesus not only laid out this expectation, He also set the example for us. So, why aren’t Christians acting like Jesus?

"The primary reason that people do not act like Jesus is because they do not think like Jesus. Behavior stems from what we think – our attitudes, beliefs, values, and opinions," says George Barna in Think Like Jesus.

location:  http://www.gcmlt.org/events/lt/

Clone back now....this does amount to a HUGE generalization about the Church and Christians.  The reason, one of many, I left GCM was the pompous nature and the us-them speak.  The 1991 Letter says they'll stop and the recent remarks by Mark Darling at 2006 Faithwalkers, it is just sickening the attitude about GC's role in the world.  McCotter lefy a long time ago, and the pride still is rampant.

I know lots of God-fearing, Jesus talking Christians that don't look like, act like, smell Midwesterners.  Let's talk about Asia and the Chinese church.  We yet have had troubles of that nature.

AHHHHHHHHHHH!

[jehu]

I think they've upset him.  Let's try acupuncture.  

[GC Big Names]

I think your concerns are valid Clone. It is difficult, given GCM's past and present, to not see it as a "us versus them" attitude and "we do it better and know how to do it better" attitude. Not only that but what worries me still is knowing that they may not have any teachers there that can bring a well-educated and mature theological worldview into the discussion about the West, Christian influence, the church, etc...GCM is so inbreed they can't see beyond their own walls.  If they were serious about looking at how the West can negatively influence a Christian's worldview, they should start with their own organization.

I fear for those LTers - I hope someone there at that LT will bring in a healthier, more wholistic, and theologically mature view when discussing the culture, how to influence the world for Christ, what that means, the history of the West in general and how the western church fits into that, etc...But I seriously doubt, given most GCM leaders lack of seminary education, or education in general, they will be able to do that. Sounds like another "blitz" moment to me...

Footnote:
I was reading about GCM the other day on wikipedia. According to the article GCM has around 40,000 members total throughout the world. Which may seem like a lot, but when you think of say the Anglican Community, which has around 73 million members, it brings that number into perspective. I bring this point up only because when I was in GCM I felt so disconnected from historic Christianity and from other Christian thought and people. I felt so "overwhelmed" if you will, with GCM rhetoric, thought, approach, that my worldview was so shaped by them. I felt like they were the only church out there and had around 100 million members or something. Again this was just a feeling I had when I was knee-deep in the GCM world. Thank God, that compared to other healthier Christian denominations they are quite small. In fact, I find that almost everyone who has no experience with GCM, has never even heard of it. I hope that GCM Warning does its part in helping either GCM change its way or keep people from joining churches that have not changed their destructive ways.

[exshep]

The us versus them mentality is cloying.   It does smack of we have the truth, they do not.  There have been hundreds of sucessful Christian ministries which have made an impact.    The exclusivity of salvation is annoying at best.  

It does strike as more of same old same old.   When the Columbus church came to Ohio University, they suddenly became THE Athens church.  I was not alone in my disgust.   There was a pervading sense  of annoyance in  both the churches and campus fellowships of their air of superiority.  It really did set off some feelings of antagonism.

[G_Prince]

That advertisement would have given me a serious gilt trip a few years ago. Now it just seems silly.

Here is a question, if Western Christianity was doing it right (the GC way) would GC completely lose its purpose and dissolve into the main stream Church? It seems to me that GC needs Western Christianity to keep screwing up so it can perpetuate itself. Without that, GC seems to loose its function, it needs most Christians to fail its standards in order to exist.

[AgathaL'Orange]

I think you are right, G.  GC does seem to need the "bad" side of Christianity to function.  Otherwise we might see more "ads" for LT that say things like, "Join in with the worldwide body of Christ to reach the unreached." or something more positive.  Instead it's like, "Well since nobody else is reaching others for Christ, it's up to you... Do you want to be like mainline, degenerate, apathetic Christians?  Or do you want to be a REAL Christian?"

True Confession Time:  Unfortunately I fell into that belief system for too many years.  Hopefully I can be a little more unified with my Christian worldview.

[exshep]

I think you are right, G.  GC does seem to need the "bad" side of Christianity to function.  Otherwise we might see more "ads" for LT that say things like, "Join in with the worldwide body of Christ to reach the unreached." or something more positive.  Instead it's like, "Well since nobody else is reaching others for Christ, it's up to you... Do you want to be like mainline, degenerate, apathetic Christians?  Or do you want to be a REAL Christian?"

True Confession Time:  Unfortunately I fell into that belief system for too many years.  Hopefully I can be a little more unified with my Christian worldview.

I must admit I was blind to the LT until the post. Thanks for the heads up.

[MamaD]

»The Challenge
Taking a look at Western Christianity, most people who claim to be Christians are not making a significant impact on the people around them. Instead of influencing the world for God through their lives as Christ says believers will in Matthew 5:13-16, the majority have assimilated to the culture to the point that their lives are undistinguishable from anyone else’s.

Jesus not only laid out this expectation, He also set the example for us. So, why aren’t Christians acting like Jesus?

"The primary reason that people do not act like Jesus is because they do not think like Jesus. Behavior stems from what we think – our attitudes, beliefs, values, and opinions," says George Barna in Think Like Jesus.

Aside from the obvious major generalization about most Christians not making a significant impact on the people around them (who could possibly measure someone's influence), I must say I find some truth in this statement.

Perhaps that is the problem.

When there is a little truth in a statement, it's hard to refute the statement.

As a parent who sent students to LT several times, I would assume from reading this that the teaching involved "basic" Christianity, and words of encouragement to students to stand strong against a sometimes Godless culture. Also, I would think it was an opportunity for them to make new friends and hang out with old ones and find encouragement from their peers in their walk with God.

As I sent my kids off with the group, I thought the week would involve talks that would bring students to a deeper understanding and love of God so that they might grow in knowledge and grace, as Peter says. I didn't understand that this was a "boot camp" for the army of GCM and that without parent's knowledge, my child (on my few hundred dollars, I might add) was being asked to commit to the GCM army for the rest of their life. Talk about betrayal.

I think it is a sad thing for people (young or old) to think that being a Christian is a life of "duty" to "work" for God's army when more than anything it is about glorifying God with our lives and finding our joy in Him. I think if our neighbors see us in the highs and lows of life living with those goals, they will come asking as God calls them. We just need to be ready with an answer.

And, by the way, I can't find anywhere in the Bible where we are told the church is an army, can you? It compares us to soldiers, but doesn't say the church is an army. I was once told by a GCM leader that the church is the army, the elder is the general, and the congregation is the infantry!

It is good to be the king.

[namaste]

I think you are right, G.  GC does seem to need the "bad" side of Christianity to function.  Otherwise we might see more "ads" for LT that say things like, "Join in with the worldwide body of Christ to reach the unreached." or something more positive.  Instead it's like, "Well since nobody else is reaching others for Christ, it's up to you... Do you want to be like mainline, degenerate, apathetic Christians?  Or do you want to be a REAL Christian?"

True Confession Time:  Unfortunately I fell into that belief system for too many years.  Hopefully I can be a little more unified with my Christian worldview.

I'd just like to say...

I'M A PROUD, UNDERACHIEVING CHRISTIAN!!!

Would anyone else like to join my club???

I only have two children.
I work full-time (albeit from home).
I plan to put those kids in public school (and am counting down the days!).

Sometimes, I skip church Sunday mornings to work in my garden.
Sunday is the only day we go to church.
I had to quit decorating cakes because my daughter was learning naughty words from me.  :oops:  :lol:

Evangelism...what's that?!  :twisted:
I question authority at every opportunity.
I am immune to manipulation and guilt tactics used by preachers.
My only authority is God.

[Barry]

...Where was God,Jesus in Evergreen Church...All i ever heard was Leaders and Servants...