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Author Topic: I don't understand this website  (Read 104977 times)
Rypick
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« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2018, 04:18:58 am »

I think ATerry is asking a very good question that seems to have gotten lost because of the way it was asked. So, allow me to reframe it...

I truly don't understand this website. How can anyone possibly move on or heal from anything when constantly complaining to each other?

I understand support groups, but is this the normal model for support groups? Are support groups supposed to be online, open to the public, and anonymous? More importantly, is the support group model Biblical? Does this model really support real healing, or does it just encourage bitterness and unforgiveness, which is a roadblock to true healing?

I think this is the conversation ATerry was trying to spark, and I think it is a very good, and important question.
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margaret
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« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2018, 05:00:38 am »

C.S. Lewis once said: Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to another: What! You too? I thought I was the only one.

That is why this site is helpful and necessary.

The reason for anonymity is because there have occasions where leaders of GCx get hostile with the members of the forum for having posted anything negative about the movement.  When some people have left this movement, it's already required a lot of courage/facing of fears. Then for the person posting, the hostility from leaders or current members adds too much stress.

I was afraid at first to post anything that could identify me, because after having already explained to national leaders why I was leaving, I didn't want them turning hostile against me in the same way they had done with others.
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omelianchuk
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« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2018, 05:00:54 am »

Also, to the moderator of this site. I would love to post a pic of myself so I am not anonymous, but am not able to... thoughts?

Only people with fabulous hair get to have photos.

Ha! Well I can attest, that ATerry has never been without fabulous hair in all the time I've known her.  Grin
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margaret
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« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2018, 05:01:13 am »

*there have been* occasions...
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bourneforHim
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« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2018, 05:53:37 am »

  

   I really think there are a number of great things that can come from this web site.

   First of all, many who were hurt or spiritually misled by GCx leaders can tell their story.  They no longer have to keep it all bottled up which we know is very unhealthy.  They can also find friends, they can find support, they can find affirmation.  They can tell their story so others walking into the same or similar situations may be more able to see.

  Secondly, current GCx'ers who may be reading this can get a better background of what may still be going on at many GCx churches.  They can find more sense of where their friends have gone and why.  They can consider how much their church has changed or how much things haven't changed.  Maybe some current attendee's are considering leaving and things here will help them come to that very large and life changing decision.  It can be very scary decision for many.

  Finally, for pastors and GCx leaders, they can continue to be dismissive of people, their hurts and experiences, as they have in the past or they can come to contrition.  They can stop and listen for a little while. They can confess to God what they have done to people  at times, the pain they have caused.  Pastors and leaders can read these comments and do some soul searching.  They can seize the opportunity to correct their mistakes.  Maybe they can reach out to those who they've sinned against and apologize.  They can see where they went wrong and  build a better church for the kingdom.  That would be far better for them than letting it all rot and fester in their hearts.  A pastor in one of the Minnesota locations once remarked how he never realized how much "forceful leadership" he would need to use as a pastor.  Maybe he can read this and run to become more of  a servant leader.

   Yep, I see a lot of reasons for this web site that can be used for good.

  
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 06:18:33 am by bourneforHim » Logged
Outtathere
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« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2018, 06:31:21 am »

Don't know how to use the quotes, but this is in response to Terry's questions about why people come to this site and seem angry.

This is a public forum, so I think of it similar to a discussion I might have at a cafe if I ran into a bunch of people who left. Some are Christians, some are not. I think that's important to point out. Some people's testimony on this site is that they made a quick profession of faith in order to (forgive this expression) "get in the club." It's not surprising then if some people lash out in a manner that is not sanitized. For some, the use of honest language (albeit crude at times) is a release from years of having to tow the line and put on what many consider to be an outward sign of sterile Christianity.

Terry, in my case, I met with leaders and told them what I saw happening that I felt was unbiblical and harmful to the sheep they were supposed to be leading. The result of me trying to be honest led to shunning (no, it wasn't in my head), my grievances being addressed and targeted from the pulpit and the pastor telling me that it was just me and nobody else had ever had the experience I had.

When I left, I found out that there were numerous others who had the exact same experience I had. I felt lied to and deceived. After, I found the weakness paper that came out in 1991 and realized that everything I experienced had been admitted as sinful years ago and since I was still experiencing it, not repented of. All this to say that when I found this forum, it was an opportunity for me to be honest and say what happened to me. I am much healthier now, as a Christian, because I have been able to connect with people I needed to talk through who went through what I went through and came out of it. I'm sure there are people who have not healed yet and people in GC may prefer them to be silent and their grievances not brought to light. That is not under the control of GC shepherds. Those who used to have authority in my life forfeited their right to shepherd me when they used me for their ends and not Christ's.

My pastors never admitted that they shunned me or spoke ill of me and spread their own version of why I left their church. I have forgiven them but we are not reconciled and they have not repented. Their expectation of me is that I have an obligation not to point out their sins and shortcomings (because in their minds it doesn't exist). If I see it as sin and if others are struggling because they are being sinned against, I have a right to come on a forum such as this and share a perspective. Whether or not it helps them or not is beyond my control but that is my motivation as it has helped me to dialogue with others whose experience was identical to mine in many ways (many of whom still love the Lord).
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Linda
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« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2018, 06:40:47 am »

Quote from: margaret
C.S. Lewis once said: Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to another: What! You too? I thought I was the only one.
I've always loved that quote. Thanks for posting.

Great list, BourneforHim, good points, Outtathere.

In addition to all the reasons you cited, I post because I want to WARN others of aberrant teaching and practice in GC churches. In other words, I post on the GCM warning site to warn people. I am specifically interested in getting information to parents and students who have a sense that "something is off", but don't know what. If they Google, there is a place they can get information. I wish there had been a site like this when we left. I don't ever tell current members (or anyone, really) to go here and until recently, my closest friends did not know I posted here.

There has been MUCH damage done by this teaching for many years. No matter what you are told, it is not normal for a HEALTHY church/denomination/association to have a forum where former members can discuss difficulties they faced after they left.

To everyone who thought this was a safe place, I'm sorry for what is happening here. More importantly, I'm sorry for the experience you had in a GC church that led you here. As the defenders try to shame you, I hope you are able to see that they are using intimidation techniques. They don't defend bad teaching. They can't. So they tell you you are bitter, you have not healed, you are a sinner, you are crazy, you need to move on. That's all they've got.


« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 07:10:37 am by Linda » Logged

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araignee19
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« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2018, 07:53:26 am »

I see there main reasons people post here:
1) To find healing.
2) To call out bad teaching.
3) To warn others about bad teaching.

All of these reasons are valid. I spent several years meeting with as many leaders as I could get access to at my church. I thought and fully believed the issues would be addressed in a godly and biblical manner.  My concerns were not sufficiently or properly dealt with. When leaders occasionally admitted teachings were incorrect, they were not publicly corrected, and continued to be believed by those who heard them and didn't see the falsehood.

The time I spent at that church and the process of leaving left me confused, hurt, and my faith in near tatters. I originally posted here to find understanding and work through the issues I was left with. I never became bitter. I am still not bitter. Quite the opposite really: I am much healthier person than I was when I left. I stopped checking this website much at all after a period of time.

Now I occasionally check back and post because I still want to see false teachings corrected publicly. If the false teachings are not corrected, I will post because I want to warn others of these lies. This does not mean I want to see GCx quietly change for the better. Public correction of false teachings by the national leaders. That is the only step many on this forum would accept as good enough.

I followed Matthew 18 during my time at GCx.  Much better than my leaders did for that matter. To me, posting on this forum is the final step of bringing it before the whole Church.


And as one final note: My choice to stay anonymous does not discredit what I have to say. Deal with my ideas for their own merit or lack thereof: Don't try to find a way to dismiss them because I don't have the right "character" or "position" or gender or any other criteria you could glean from my identify.
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Wrestling
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« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2018, 08:16:48 am »

I think ATerry is asking a very good question that seems to have gotten lost because of the way it was asked. So, allow me to reframe it...

I truly don't understand this website. How can anyone possibly move on or heal from anything when constantly complaining to each other?

I understand support groups, but is this the normal model for support groups? Are support groups supposed to be online, open to the public, and anonymous? More importantly, is the support group model Biblical? Does this model really support real healing, or does it just encourage bitterness and unforgiveness, which is a roadblock to true healing?

I think this is the conversation ATerry was trying to spark, and I think it is a very good, and important question.

That is a great way to re-phrase the question. And it's not a bad question to ask. In fact, I believe someone named Luis already asked this in a civil way on another thread where a lot of people gave thoughtful answers they are re-posting here. (http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-stop-using-this-forum/)

"How can anyone possibly move on or heal from anything when constantly b*tching to eachother??" is very different than "I understand support groups, but is this the normal model for support groups? Are support groups supposed to be online, open to the public, and anonymous? More importantly, is the support group model Biblical? Does this model really support real healing, or does it just encourage bitterness and unforgiveness, which is a roadblock to true healing?"
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 08:18:55 am by Wrestling » Logged
Linda
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« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2018, 08:35:13 am »

I post mostly to warn.

That will be necessary until the bad teaching is corrected.

I get that GC supporters don’t think GC teaching is flawed in significant ways. It is why you don’t understand this web site.
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ATerry
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« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2018, 08:46:32 am »

The right character, position, or gender? That’s jumping the gun. I have no intention of judging you based on your identity. My opinion is that it’s cowardly to hide behind a keyboard and slander people by name without identifying youself
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Boggs
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« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2018, 08:51:23 am »

I left in 2011. Prior to leaving we were processing some unnecessary and harmful church discipline our pastors had carried out against a family member of mine. I think I had an inkling that there were people online who criticized the movement - Darling mentioned it from the stage at Faithwalkers, and I'd also heard about problems in the past that led to the weakness paper. That probably came from GCLI.

All that to say when I started questioning whether my pastors were doing the right thing I went looking and found this site. It helped me understand why my pastors were doing what they were doing. As we left I found it healing to read this forum and learn that I wasn't crazy, I wasn't making a huge mistake, that others had similar experiences across multiple churches in the movement. After a while I didn't visit the forum as I got my feet underneath me again. I returned just recently.

When we left we were very deliberate to not say anything that could be construed as gossip and slander against the pastors so that we could avoid the shunning and formal excommunication our family members experienced. Our closest friends were at that church and showed no signs of ever leaving; we were dead-set to do what we could to preserve tenuous relationships. In the 7 years since I've found my voice and feel that I can help others by telling my story and letting others know they are not alone, they are not crazy, that there is hope in their future. So now I post to warn and shine light into dark corners.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 08:56:41 am by Boggs » Logged
G_Prince
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« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2018, 08:53:02 am »

The right character, position, or gender? That’s jumping the gun. I have no intention of judging you based on your identity. My opinion is that it’s cowardly to hide behind a keyboard and slander people by name without identifying youself

What makes you think anyone here is "anonymous"?  Wink
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 08:55:23 am by G_Prince » Logged

Here's an easy way to find out if you're in a cult. If you find yourself asking the question, "am I in a cult?" the answer is yes. -Stephen Colbert
Huldah
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« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2018, 08:53:14 am »

The right character, position, or gender? That’s jumping the gun. I have no intention of judging you based on your identity. My opinion is that it’s cowardly to hide behind a keyboard and slander people by name without identifying youself
I wish so much that there had been a warning site like this when I was considering whether or not to become part of a GC church. It would have saved me a lot of heartache and some irreversible life decisions if I had known what I was getting into. I wouldn't have cared one bit whether or not the people giving me the warning were anonymous. It's the information, not the identity, that would have been a blessing to me.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 08:54:54 am by Huldah » Logged
AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2018, 08:56:40 am »

The right character, position, or gender? That’s jumping the gun. I have no intention of judging you based on your identity. My opinion is that it’s cowardly to hide behind a keyboard and slander people by name without identifying youself

What makes you think anyone here is "anonymous"?  Wink


 Grin Grin Grin Grin
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ATerry
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« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2018, 08:57:45 am »

G Prince, if that’s your real hair, I need to be your friend
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Boggs
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« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2018, 09:06:21 am »

G Prince, if that’s your real hair, I need to be your friend

I just assume everyone on this forum looks like G Prince.
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araignee19
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« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2018, 09:44:33 am »

The right character, position, or gender? That’s jumping the gun. I have no intention of judging you based on your identity. My opinion is that it’s cowardly to hide behind a keyboard and slander people by name without identifying youself

Why else would you need to know my name other than to make judgments about my character? My name tells you nothing else about me other than those types of things. If you want to know my character, start by reading my old posts or send me a personal message to get to know me. Even if you aren't trying to sort people's arguments based on who they are, others do. Judge my ideas, not me.

Also, I do not believe I have ever slandered anyone on this website. Discussing my personal experiences and publicly available teachings and policies is NOT slander or gossip. Also, I spent literally years of my life confronting this stuff in person. The time for that is past.

Finally, did it ever occur to you some of us might have good reason for remaining anonymous that have nothing to do with GCx? For example, I have some rather violent ex-family members and it could be dangerous for me and others I care about if my name was linked to personal details online. I also choose not to use social media and such with my real name. But I still needed the support this group provided and still deserve a voice.
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Linda
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« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2018, 09:53:56 am »

Here is a take on anonymity that some of you may not have thought of.

http://www.wadeburleson.org/2009/03/anonymous-writing-is-not-intrinsically.html

From the article:

"Please note, there’s a stark difference between a willingness to die for the testimony of the gospel, which I would do, and a willingness to die criticizing an institution. Most of us would rather live and go on criticizing the institution, seeking to make reform than to die and have our voices for reform snuffed out. I love the SBC and want to see it reformed for instance, but I will not die for it. That’s a privilege reserved only for my sweet Savior and family.

Add to that list of contemptible cowards names like John Jay, Alexander Hamilton, and James Madison, men who published anonymously (OK…they used the pseudonym Publius) the Federalist Papers, called by many the most important political documents outside the Constitution and Declaration of Independence in our nation’s history. Cowards they were… discard their ideas.

Also add to the mix more contemptible cowards like Thomas Paine (Common Sense was anonymous upon publication) and the dozens and dozens of revolutionary war era and anti-slavery tracts published anonymously (see Gutenberg.org for a list). Also discredit the information of historical figures like the anonymous (until his death) “Deep-throat” who let the nation in on major political scandal and corruption in Washington D.C. Guess he was a coward too. Also there have been numerous corporate whistleblowers who have anonymously helped bring justice to out-of-control corrupt companies. Cowards each one..."

And this,

"Basically, the history of anonymity in writing is long and rich. Usually (almost always) anonymous writing is done by those NOT in power rightly criticizing those IN POWER who are in a position to shut-up and shut-down the anonymous source, thus putting an end to the public’s knowledge of the corruption. Those of you who are so quick to call others cowards can do so precisely because you support those in power or have nothing to lose (i.e. you’re not in ministry at a SB church or institution!). It’s OK to put your name on your criticism of Wade or Watchdog, because if some of the “higher-ups” look you up or run into you at the state or national convention (and believe me, they do!), they’ll thank you and pat your back! NOT take you to task or blacklist you like they have others!"
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 10:07:08 am by Linda » Logged

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G_Prince
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« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2018, 09:59:06 am »

Not to mention posting anonymously in forums and chatrooms is standard internet protocol. We all need to be careful, especially with the current levels of "data scraping" ***cough [Cambridge Analytica] cough cough ***
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Here's an easy way to find out if you're in a cult. If you find yourself asking the question, "am I in a cult?" the answer is yes. -Stephen Colbert
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