I don't understand this website

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[AgathaL'Orange]

Great links, Linda.

I can't speak to the specifics of this website, I only know it's affiliated with Rick Ross who for a long time has gathered up cult/abrerrant church info, but there's quite a lot here in the way of GCx history.



https://www.culteducation.com/component/itpgooglesearch/search.html?gsquery=great+commission

[Heidi]

I am thankful for this website- I have been a part of GCM and Evergreen from 1981-2016.
This site is helping me a lot as I am sort through and process my own spiritual journey and walk with JESUS.

I have been hurt by the "Elder led" leadership at GCM. 

It was also a really big deal to me when Jim McCotter left.
 I was at DC 86. The big national conference. This conference was lead by Jim McCotter, and then a year later he left. 

 We were told at the time, to not talk to any of the people outside the auditorium who were trying to warn us about GCM and Jim McCotter. 
I obeyed that, so I did not stop to listen, or take a flyer about the GCM warnings. 
 
Why was Jim McCotter's exit so hush-hush???
If I remember correctly- Brent and Mary Knox lived with Jim McCotter that summer of 1986.   Nothing was done publicly- He just sort of left.  It was confusing at the time, and it still is.
It never sat right with me then, nor does it now.

Back in Ames, after Mark Darling was asked to step down from being a Deacon. He worked in an Arcade and all he listened to were the  Jim McCotter tape series " The Awesome Love of God".  He said he never opened his Bible for a year.   This is very concerning, and Mark shared this publicly.  It never raised red flags for me at the time. 
It sure does now. 

Praise God for a place we can share our hearts, our stories, and God's word.  This forum is a blessing.
Heidi



 

[DarthVader]

Hey Heidi - this is off this topic so apologies - For those of us who have been supportive of Suzanne and the other Victims, we definitely notice that things seem to have gone quiet, at least on social media.  I think we are all hoping and praying that is for a hopeful reason - e.g., ECC has reached out directly to her, and Suzanne doesn't want to mess things up by posting about it, etc.  I know the ECC board meets tonight but not sure what is on their agenda related to this.  Knowing you and Suzanne are close, anything you can share?  No worries if not...I (and many others) will just keep praying for transparency, justice, repentance, grace, healing, forgiveness, etc.

[Rypick]

Ryan,

Yikes, I've spent the last 25 minutes coming up with links for you, but honestly, I would recommend that you take a bit of time to understand what your church believes and the shepherding movement you have your family involved in and not be dependent on others to do your work for you

As margaret mentioned, there are a number of threads here that discuss bad teaching that needs to be corrected.

Here are a few links. Also, learn about the "shepherding movement". Try Googling it, but maybe you don't have time. GCC churches are shepherding churches.

An overview would be my husband's original blog post.

http://tmdugan.blogspot.com/2006/06/church-what-is-essential-mere-church.html

Here are some threads on the forum that discuss bad teaching and practice. (I apologize for my crazy use of colors and underlining, and bold type.)

http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/bad-teaching-that-should-be-corrected/

http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/the-worst-of-the-worst-serious-error/

http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/is-gc-'orthodox-protestant'/

Thanks Linda.
I'm sorry that my desire to spend my time parenting and making memories with my 5 kids, rather than reading 100's and 100's of posts on here is an issue for you. The reason I asked is so that I can investigate further. It gives me a starting point. Again, I would assume that if you are as passionate about warning others about false doctrine as you claim to be, then you should be able to rattle off at least a partial list of those false doctrines without spending tons of time looking them up.

Out of curiosity, why do you say the GC churches are part of the shepherding movement? Do they claim that, or did you just make that connection on your own?

[Faith]

That was kind of rude 

It seemed like Linda put some time into prepping that -- are you looking for a concise buellt point list? At the very least, I'd read her husbands post.

[araignee19]

I do have to agree we should have a standard list of core issues that we all agree need to change. This should be documented somewhere concisely. The two that come to mind quickly for me would be:
1) GCx has never publicly renounced or corrected Jim McCotter and his clearly flawed teachings.
2) GCx teaches commitment for life to an individual church. 

To me, these issues are core issues and alone justify leaving.

[Huldah]

I'm sorry that my desire to spend my time parenting and making memories with my 5 kids, rather than reading 100's and 100's of posts on here is an issue for you.

Well, to be fair, Rypick, your response came across as a bit of, "I've got better things to do, but your time isn't that valuable."

[AgathaL'Orange]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherding_Movement


Honestly this Wikipedia article explains it pretty well.

[Rypick]

That was kind of rude 

It seemed like Linda put some time into prepping that -- are you looking for a concise buellt point list? At the very least, I'd read her husbands post.

I thanked her for the information she gave me. I did read her husbands blog post. It was very informative, and very well written. It was also very complimentary of much of ECC and the pastors. I appreciated it very much.

I did not, however appreciate her tone with "I would recommend that you take a bit of time to understand what your church believes and the shepherding movement you have your family involved in and not be dependent on others to do your work for you," and "Try Googling it, but maybe you don't have time." The snarkiness really didn't seem necessary when I asked a sincere question.

I know quite well what my church believes. I have been at the Rock since the day it opened, almost 20 years ago. I've perused this forum in the past. I read the apology papers years ago. I'm not a slouch. I'm just trying to understand what motivates the regular posters here to devote years of their life to this forum, after leaving a GC church.

[Rypick]

I'm sorry that my desire to spend my time parenting and making memories with my 5 kids, rather than reading 100's and 100's of posts on here is an issue for you.

Well, to be fair, Rypick, your response came across as a bit of, "I've got better things to do, but your time isn't that valuable."

I'm not sure why. As I've tried to explain twice, if these "false doctrines" are so important to Linda, or anyone else, they should be able to list them right off the top of their head. It shouldn't take them tons of time. On the other hand, it would take me hours, if not days, to glean the same info by perusing the forum. It isn't a matter of whose time is more valuable, because there should be a huge differential in how much time is needed to provide the same information.

[Rypick]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherding_Movement


Honestly this Wikipedia article explains it pretty well.

Is this in response to me asking Linda why she says GC churches are part of the shepherding movement?
The Wikipedia article just throws GCC in a list at the end of the article of "other movements that have been influenced by the shepherding movement." That hardly identifies them as part of the movement. Plus, it's Wikipedia. Anyone could have written that. It isn't exactly authoritative.
I was just curious if GCC has self-identified as part of the Shepherding Movement, or if Linda read the Wikipedia article, noticed some parallels, and saw the words Great Commission at the end of the article, and that's why she connects the two.

[HughHoney]

Rypick what do you think the shepherding movement is? Maybe you should get back to making memories not sure if you have requisite understanding in this matter.

[Rypick]

Rypick what do you think the shepherding movement is? Maybe you should get back to making memories not sure if you have requisite understanding in this matter.

So I need to understand what the Shepherding Movement is before I can investigate it?
Thanks for your snarkiness as well.

[HughHoney]

It strikes me that you’d need to know what it is to be able to really consider an opposing viewpoint or keep up with people who know better.  My guess is your experience of gc has been formed far from the political epicenter to witness much first hand. Investigate away!

[Rypick]

It strikes me that you’d need to know what it is to be able to really consider an opposing viewpoint or keep up with people who know better.  My guess is your experience of gc has been formed far from the political epicenter to witness much first hand. Investigate away!

This makes sense, if I was trying to engage in a debate. However, I stated explicitly that this is not my goal at the beginning.
My question is even more valid if my experience is too far removed from the epicenter to see the evidence myself.
Linda stated, "GCC churches are shepherding churches" as if it is a fact. Maybe it is, I don't know. I simply wanted to know if this is a fact, or if this is her opinion. It isn't necessarily incorrect if it is only her opinion. However, it requires more investigation on my part to see if I come to the same opinion. Conversely, if GC has identified themselves as part of the shepherding movement, then I don't need to investigate links and parallels. I can shift my focus to "what is the shepherding movement, and is it dangerous heresy."

[Linda]

I didn’t realize you wanted just a list. I thought you wanted documentation, as well. There is a thread here called false teaching that should be corrected. Actually several. I was looking for a few of those and took some time away from making memories with my 5 children and 4 grandchildren and dozens of cyber friends with funny names to do that so you wouldn’t have to waste your time because you seemed irritated that margaret suggested you search this forum and read through the thoughtful posts that people have taken hours and hours over many years to research and write because they care about people who have been harmed by this teaching.

Here is a starter list.

1. False view of the role of the Holy Spirit.
2. Commitment to the local church for life.
3. Non Protestant view of the Word of God. (The Bible AND the Bible as interpreted through the pastor)

All those are things that happen in shepherding churches.

[Linda]

I thanked her for the information she gave me. I did read her husbands blog post. It was very informative, and very well written. It was also very complimentary of much of ECC and the pastors. I appreciated it very much.

Glad you appreciate it and think it was well written.

Here is a link to my husband’s response to someone who used his blog post to suggest that he was saying that ECC was great. Also, you should listen to the sermon that was preached against that blog post that you appreciated and read about the shunning that occurred because of it. And learn about how ECC pastors decided to tell him a few weeks after it was posted (and a year after we left) that he should take it down. Read about how an ECC pastor showed up unannounced at our door one Wednesday at noon to deliver us a hand written note shunning us and calling us “slanderous brothers and sisters” because of that blog post. Ahhh, memories... That’s not cult like at all. That’s perfectly normal.

http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/my-understanding-of-the-great-(c)ommission/msg11046/#msg11046

[HughHoney]

This makes sense, if I was trying to engage in a debate. However, I stated explicitly that this is not my goal at the beginning.
My question is even more valid if my experience is too far removed from the epicenter to see the evidence myself.
Linda stated, "GCC churches are shepherding churches" as if it is a fact. Maybe it is, I don't know. I simply wanted to know if this is a fact, or if this is her opinion. It isn't necessarily incorrect if it is only her opinion. However, it requires more investigation on my part to see if I come to the same opinion. Conversely, if GC has identified themselves as part of the shepherding movement, then I don't need to investigate links and parallels. I can shift my focus to "what is the shepherding movement, and is it dangerous heresy."

You might want to put Jeromy’s song on again and look up nit-noid after shepherding movement.

[Linda]

I was just curious if GCC has self-identified as part of the Shepherding Movement, or if Linda read the Wikipedia article, noticed some parallels, and saw the words Great Commission at the end of the article, and that's why she connects the two.

Let's see. Either or.

Either GCC self identifies OR Linda read the Wikipedia article.

How about neither.

I'm not even sure GCC elders have any idea what the shepherding movement is.

I did not read the Wikipedia article. I will now, though.

Addendum: Because GCC churches disagree with the charismatic movement, and the original shepherding movement was charismatic, they would no doubt say they are not part of the shepherding movement. They are more technically a shepherding church. Their mantra is Hebrews 13:17.

[omelianchuk]

Ryan, from what I gather, the chief complaint against GCx is that its view of church governance is insufficiently congregationalist. The plural-elder model to which GCx subscribes "leaves the congregation out in the hall" as it were, and the apostleship idea as articulated by McCotter and Clark elevates certain elders to a level of unacceptable authority. From my perspective, the anti-congregationalism is still part of GCx's DNA, but I never once heard anyone appeal to "apostleship" in ten years I was part of it (though a guy from the early ISU days I knew still believed it was a gift of some sort). At any rate, the plural-elder model is thought to create fertile ground for abuse of power.

Talking with a professor I had in undergrad who did his dissertation on the plural-eldership model and who attended Urban Refuge to see it in action, I will never forget what he had to say. He said it was the church's greatest strength in that it produced beloved and trusted leaders who were very committed to well-being of the institution and the members -- a big advantage over rotating pastors that come and go every few years. But he also said the model was its greatest weakness in that it produced a top-heavy structure of authority that left the ordinary member with little power -- only the power to "vote with their feet" in a case crying out for justice.

It seems to me that the basic division between people who had bad experiences with GCx and people who've had good ones depends on the experience of the "good" or the "bad" inherent in the plural-elder model.