I love ECC and I hate ECC....

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[blonde]

I got this email from a current member of ECC.  I couldn't agree with any point with his ideas.  It seems like he is saying two things at the same time.  It's just like you love the church but not the ideas of the church.  How can that be?  This is so conflicted, I am not sure what to make of his idea of Evergreen, and GCx in general.

I never "bad-mouthed" Evergreen. I made a lot of critical comments that I still stand by today. I disagree quite a bit with their methods, teachings, and even theology. I DO believe in the sign gifts like speaking in tongues, Evergreen does not. I DON'T believe in eternal security; Evergreen does. (I told the pastoral staff all this, too. I think the whole Berlin church was a big mistake and I refused to give money toward it and I even went to Jeff G. and told him that. I also hated how they were so pushing for money when they were looking to buy a building for Bloomington. (Oh, I also disagree with mandatory tithing, as well as the whole "dating with intent", thing).

And yes, it's true, they WERE very arrogant, elitist, and cultic -- but then, ALL start-up churches are like that. The pastors used to believe that every man's career goal should be to be a pastor. They don't believe that anymore. They USED to have the goal of planting an Evergreen church within 5 or 10 miles around the twin cities. They don't think that way anymore, and have even publicly admitted that this was an arrogant attitude.

Evergreen is STILL a good, solid church, with genuine, caring, teachable people and leaders. They believe that the Bible is God's infallible word, and I'm confident the Holy Spirit is at work there. EVERY church I've been to has given me reason enough to leave it. Evergreen is no exception. But just because of that fact, doesn't mean you SHOULD leave it! It could be that God has called me to stay and see what kind of a difference I could make.

[lone gone]

Although the thoughts seem jumbled I can see this quality in their words.... the writer is ambivalent.  You can say that they have mixed emotions and mixed opinions about the topic they are writing about. They show signs of  competing values.....  they may value loyalty but also value truth.  It's like marriage..... what if you find out you heartily disagree with your spouse? what if your values do not coincide? It's hard.

There is no perfect body of believers in this world.... only in the next.

[LucyB]

Blonde:

Did you ask permission to post someone's e-mail on the internet?

[blonde]

I don't think we really get permission to blather on about GCx.  Blather: bunches of words, strewn about in a twisty tangly web of pontification, insight and nonsensical delight.

So with that said, I am sure you think I did not ask. 

[Huldah]

And yes, it's true, they WERE very arrogant, elitist, and cultic -- but then, ALL start-up churches are like that.

Puzzled. How could he possibly know this is true? For that matter, how could it possibly be true that all start-up churches are like that? Do good, humble, doctrinally sound people never start churches?

It bothers me when people excuse bad behavior with some variation of, "No church (or believer, or pastor, or whatever) is perfect." Imperfection is a given. It should be the starting assumption behind any discussion of our behavior, not a trump card that shuts down the discussion or derails all constructive criticism.

[grandslam]

Did you ask permission to post someone's e-mail on the internet?

Given that anonymity was kept (and that no one in particular was spoken of in a negative light), I see no problem with blonde posting a received email.

[blonde]

I know this person I quoted is not on this forum, and in my estimation NUTS for going back to Evergreen since she/he felt loved there.  The Moonies make you feel loved.  Jim Jones made you feel loved.  On top of this, the fact that the writer says the theology is bad at ECC, and he can put up with it....

I never "bad-mouthed" Evergreen. I made a lot of critical comments that I still stand by today. I disagree quite a bit with their methods, teachings, and even theology.

Very sad.  Very very sad.  And sad that I know this person well-enough to know he graduated with a degree from a seminary.