If you’re not at a GCx church, where are you?

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[Janet Easson Martin]

Yes, GodisFaithful, I needed a dictionary for a few words, too.

[Huldah]

Huldah, we are presently at a church started by Village Missions also!  Been there awhile.  Before that, we were at a Southern Baptist church where I met my husband.

Very cool, Janet! I had no idea.

[Huldah]

i must thank you and your family for serving our country.  Maybe your husband is the only one who officially served in the military, but the whole family sacrifices much to choose that life.  So thank you to your and your husband, and kids. 

Oh, thank you, GodTrumpsAll, I am genuinely touched! And I always feel a bit humbled when people thank me, since I served during peace time unlike so many veterans who've had to experience the horror of combat.

My husband and I were both active duty when we met overseas. He stayed in for the entire twenty years, but I got out after my first enlistment because we wanted kids. There are probably some women who could handle motherhood and full-time military service simultaneously, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been one of them.

[Godtrumpsall]

i must thank you and your family for serving our country.  Maybe your husband is the only one who officially served in the military, but the whole family sacrifices much to choose that life.  So thank you to your and your husband, and kids. 

Oh, thank you, GodTrumpsAll, I am genuinely touched! And I always feel a bit humbled when people thank me, since I served during peace time unlike so many veterans who've had to experience the horror of combat.

My husband and I were both active duty when we met overseas. He stayed in for the entire twenty years, but I got out after my first enlistment because we wanted kids. There are probably some women who could handle motherhood and full-time military service simultaneously, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been one of them.

I think you personally, and as a family still sacrifice whether in peace or war.  It is a lifestyle.  You agree to have not roots for a time.  To me that is huge. 

[margaret]

I still can't go to church. It's been over 6 years. I don't trust leadership. Plus to join a church, I think most people search for a group that is somewhat likeminded to themselves.  I don't even completely know what I believe anymore.

My spouse is very invested in their new church, which is practically a polar opposite to GCM.

[Linda]

I think many of us here agree that finding a "safe" church after our GCx experience has been an odyssey.

When we left, 2 of our children remained at ECC. So, now, for the first time in our life, we no longer attended the same church as our children. That was difficult. And very sad.

We tried a large Baptist Church in Burnsville for a few weeks. It was fine, but strange to not know anyone. It was particularly hard to move our 9 year old, 12 year old, and 17 year old around trying to find a place we all fit.

We tried Bethlehem Baptist for a while. Then, for a season we settled on Grace in Eden Prairie. I liked going into the dark auditorium and not having to talk to anyone. It made the church experience less lonely after coming from one where we were super involved and had tons of friends. This may seem crazy, but we also appreciated the fact that when we started attending, Grace had just experienced a "major moral failure" on the part of their senior pastor and they did not cover it up. They handled it Biblically and publicly. The transparency and integrity that demonstrated meant a lot to us.

Sometimes we would stay home and do "church". Other times we would watch a podcast. Terry visited a very high Anglican church in St. Louis Park with a friend a few times.

Finally, not even sure how, we settled on a conservative Anglican (ACNA) church. We like the liturgy, we like that great portions of the Bible are read weekly, we like the Prayers of the People (actually praying for everything from our leaders and missionaries to specific prayers for people in the church), we like that the sermon is before the announcements and everything in the service points to Jesus, ending with communion. We sit in the back. We know a handful of people. The pastor knows our story. We will never join. We feel safe.

It is a journey. I remember Larry Pile once said it is okay to take time and maybe not even go to church for a season. I realize that GCC people don't understand that this is part of what some of God's people experience when they leave their organization. I wish they did.

My rule of thumb is when I walk out of a service, am I thinking about how great, merciful, loving, kind, etc. God is? Or, am I thinking about how great my church or pastor are?

[Watching]

My rule of thumb is when I walk out of a service, am I thinking about how great, merciful, loving, kind, etc. God is? Or, am I thinking about how great my church or pastor are?

Thanks so much Linda and everyone else for your open-ness on this topic.  I am still, after 25+ years, at an ECC church, but due to recent issues have been considering looking elsewhere.  This is hard.  Your last statement made me think that for all the years I've attended ECC services, I usually leave thinking about the great or not so great music or the church or the pastor or my church family.  Not how good God is.   I'm struck by how I hadn't noticed that until now.  And saddened by it, wondering how much I've missed.  Thanks for the post.

[Differentstrokes]

I still can't go to church. It's been over 6 years. I don't trust leadership. Plus to join a church, I think most people search for a group that is somewhat likeminded to themselves.  I don't even completely know what I believe anymore.

Margaret, this is almost exactly how I feel.... I feel guilty because I don't know what I believe , but I really want to believe in something... I don't trust the institution of church, so it's hard to be objective and open when I visit a church. Also I'm still dealing with pretty bad anxiety around church and social settings, because every friend I had pretty much turned their backs on me, so it's hard to trust anyone to be a real friend lol

[araignee19]

Just wanted to share this article about choosing a new church by Larry Pile (titled "Choosing a Church After a Painful Experience" in case the link stops working in the future). I wish I had seen this before I started the process of choosing a new church, as it has some good advice. Maybe it will be helpful for others here. http://www.carlstevens.org/gpage17.html

[searching]

My family left ECC 14+ years ago, I was there for 16 years. After leaving we went from one church to the next trying to find the right spot. I have found a church home with people who love and accept me just the way I am(now divorced) and understand why I will never be a member and I still struggle with getting involved or serving in the church.

[Rebel in a Good Way]

This is a great thread.  For those who can't settle in to a new church, I completely understand and hope you can find fellowship and relationship somewhere.  Some of my best Christian support isn't in my own local church (some of it is).  I haven't settled on if I actually believe the church should be an institution or not, but it's kind of what we have available so I'm going with it for now. 

We are in an Evangelical Covenant Church and find it to be a pretty good match theologically even though I would rather not be considered evangelical anymore.  They mostly refer to themselves as "Covenant" churches.  We grilled our pastor and continue to ask any little question that comes up.  He is more than open.  It is a church plant so that is kind of ideal--it is small, we have access to leadership and can see them close up.  We have volunteered but the demand is not intense.  We had a local church go through a crisis of spiritual abuse and many landed at this church, so I think it will help create a culture of being a safe place and offering healing.  The pastor is not necessarily familiar with the recovery process but listens to those of us who are in it (like, it can take a reallllly long time).

Having studied church history, I am really interested in some of the liturgical and high church traditions as I think those have been disregarded to our detriment.  My husband and I serve communion because we appreciate communion as one of the few unifying acts amongst the entire body. 

Much of our fellowship is with other people who are walking through recovery, some from our most recent church and some from Cedarcreek.   It is such a life-changing experience that it is helpful to walk through it with other people.  My husband and I have fared rather well, compared to some people depending on their direct abuse, the timing of when they left, and the support they received. 

At any rate, I consider interactions like this fellowship and I appreciate the contributions of people on this forum  

[bLizard]

I still can't go to church. It's been over 6 years. I don't trust leadership. Plus to join a church, I think most people search for a group that is somewhat likeminded to themselves.  I don't even completely know what I believe anymore.

Margaret, this is almost exactly how I feel.... I feel guilty because I don't know what I believe , but I really want to believe in something... I don't trust the institution of church, so it's hard to be objective and open when I visit a church. Also I'm still dealing with pretty bad anxiety around church and social settings, because every friend I had pretty much turned their backs on me, so it's hard to trust anyone to be a real friend lol

Left ECC 18 years ago. Have not been to church since. We tried, at first, but nothing clicked and we realized that we were probably very burned out from over-serving at ECC. Decided that we were being legalistic (going to church because that's what you are "supposed to do") and to put off the search for Christian fellowship until we found that we were feeling the need for it. That has never happened. We are fed spiritually in various ways, but not by being part of a church family.

I can relate to the lack of objectivity. Having been a part of planning church services and events and outreach, I know how the sausage is made, so to speak. I know how to use the power of music and repetition and appeals to emotion to manipulate the minds of people towards an agenda. I know that when an evangelical Christian shows interest in me as a person, the next step is to invite me to a Bible study, add me to their salvation tally, and then drop me for the next conquest. I know that the leaders we look up to are filthy sinners like the rest of us, but are never allowed to admit it. And what I know has turned me into a cynic who sees right through any attempt by any church to minister to me.

[margaret]

Wow.  Well said bLizard. I’m only at 6-8 years out, so to see that you’re 10 years past me—-geeeze louise.

I like your ability to see through all the methods...”how the sausage is made.”  Maybe that’s in part why nothing is jumping out at me church-wise now.

I’m slowly growing accustomed to being a piece of driftwood, and simply not being sure of my beliefs or where/if I belong in church. Knowing how much it was drilled into all of us to “not forsake the assembling of yourselves together,” did you just learn to be comfortable with being a church non-attender? Thankfully, no one is pressing me to change right now, but I don’t see regular church attendance in my near future.

Thanks again for the post. It was helpful.

[Differentstrokes]

I agree, thank you bLizard!

[G_Prince]

I don't practice any kind of religion these days or carry any spiritual beliefs. To me heaven is about being a "whole" person and giving to others with my whole self. To quote the Psychadelic Furs:

"Heaven
Is the whole of the heart
And heaven don't tear you apart"

For me, religion is an easy tool to tear myself apart with. I can never get whole there, but I've begun to find a sense of wholeness outside of it. It's been a messy release. I've hurt others and been hurt in the process, but out here I can finally find sense in the world. I still see the beauty of the church; I am in awe of its immense history and taxonomy; but I will never reach heaven there.

[GoingClear]

G Prince,

Please don’t give up on Jesus. His church may have let you down because it is filled with humans like me and you who are wretched apart from Christ. Jesus will never let you down. I highly recommend the book “Has Christianity failed you?” By Ravi Zacharias. Heaven is only reached through Jesus Christ.

[Godtrumpsall]

My heart was troubled, in a sad way, for some of the responses to this thread.  I could not imagine my life without Jesus...the peace and love I receive from Him is comparable to absolutely nothing else here on earth.  I pray that those of you who are not sure what you believe anymore, of have come to sort of your own "religion", that you would ask God reveal himself to you fully.  Man will fail you, but God, God cannot fail you.  

You don't need to "go to church" to be a christian, in fact as soon as you say "you have to do something" to be a Christian, you are in danger of getting the gospel message wrong.  HOWEVER, the bible does not have a concept of individual spirituality.  Being a Christian is not a personal matter that has nothing to do with anyone else.  If you are a Christian, then you are a member of God’s church. The church is now your family, and they are God’s gift to us in living Christian lives.  God is in the business of making a family (read Romans 8 ).  This can also be seen in the fact that most of the instructions for Christians are done in the plural, there are very few instructions to individuals.  

The Christian life was never meant to be lived solo, God has gifted each member of his church to serve one another, you can’t do that solo. It is near impossible to live a Christian life alone, it runs counter to everything God has done for us. However, some people can’t help but live alone. The thief on the cross could not join a church, he had no choice; but where we have a choice, we really should become a part of God’s church.

Christianity in itself is based on relationship;relationship with Jesus, relationship with other Christians, those part of God's Kingdom.  But  men WILL fail you, those in God's kingdom will fail you, because they are not God.  Man will cause you pain and hurt.  But the glorious thing is that every struggle, every hurt, every painful situation, God is using to reveal more of himself to you.  God uses those hurts to bring you closer to Him.  To teach you, and grow you in character.  We can rejoice in trials because we know on the other side, we will understand and grasp a little bit more the depth of God's love for us.   But I think we miss those opportunities when we allow bitterness to take hold.  My prayer is full true healing for those struggling.  I want each of you to understand the depth of God's love for you, the value you hold for God, you are his, and he has so much in store for you, better than anything you would dare to imagine.  I pray you find trust in God alone, and from there He will lead you.  He promises, and God cannot be God if he does not follow through on all he promises in His Word.  

[margaret]

GTA,

That was a very kind post, and I appreciate it.

[bLizard]

Knowing how much it was drilled into all of us to “not forsake the assembling of yourselves together,” did you just learn to be comfortable with being a church non-attender?

No, I'm not comfortable with being a church non-attender. But I'm even less comfortable inside a church. I can relate to your "driftwood" comment. I still believe in God, still love Jesus, but I don't presume to know what he looks like or what he wants from me. After years of being told what to believe and how to think, and surrounding myself in a bubble with the like-minded, I've broken free and thrown all that away to evaluate truth based on evidence. I've met people of other faiths whose spiritual experiences are no less deep and real than mine. I've known gay Christians whose devotion to their Savior is humbling. I have a network of friends who stand by me because they love me, not because we were assigned to the same small group. My best friend is an atheist with a stronger moral code than anyone else I know. And I stand on the outside looking in, sadly watching the evangelical church in America chase the false idol of political power, and know that I will probably never go back in my lifetime.

Having given up the illusion of certainty, I suppose I can call myself agnostic, in the truest sense of the word. If I were to seek out a religious community, it would be one that is comfortable with unanswered questions. There's a wonderful Quaker meeting not far from me, and I've considered checking it out. But then I ask myself, what could I possibly get out of the experience that would improve on being at home on Sunday morning with my family? I don't have an answer to that yet, and until I do, I will continue to be solo.

[GoingClear]

“No, I'm not comfortable with being a church non-attender. But I'm even less comfortable inside a church. I can relate to your "driftwood" comment. I still believe in God, still love Jesus, but I don't presume to know what he looks like or what he wants from me.”

BLizard,

1.) Jesus is God in the flesh. (John 14:9) “If you’ve seen Me you’ve seen the Father. And Colossians 1:15 “He (jesus) is the image of the invariable God (the father who is spirit).

2.) God doesn’t “want” anything from you becuse He doesn’t need you or me. He CHOOSES you because He loves you. That’s the difference between the God of the Bible (Yahweh who is personal) and the God of Islam (Allah who is unknowable and distant). But someone did asked Jesus that question once about what is the greatest command, (Matthew 22:37) He answered by saying “The greatest commandment is to Love God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind, and to love your neighbor as yourself. From these hang all other commands.”