In case you missed the ECC announcement and want to hear it for yourself...

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[Phoenix]

I find it reprehensible that the women were not informed before the church at large. This shows an utter and complete lack of repentance. Shame on Evergreen and the Rock. Brent Knox and Mark Bowen. Are you listening?

Point of information here, not a defense.  In fact I believe they should have got an advanced copy.

1.  The advanced update would have had to been brokered via Joan Harris.
2.  The pastors cannot apologize to the women directl when they do not know the identities.  Again, Ms. Harris would have to help.

I disagree. They knew at least three of the victims without Joan Harris helping them out. They did not bother to apologize to even those women whose names they knew. Disgusting.

You make me laugh.  Do you "disagree" with my point that some of victims are still anonymous to the BoT and Evergreen?
Or perhaps you are just clarifying that they could have at least reached out to three of the victims.

Which is it?

[Linda]

We all know three names. Suzanne. Natalie. Loey. And if Joan didn’t pass on the names of the others, I’m sure she knows how to contact them should ECC wish to apologize.

I’ve been thinking about the lack of a personal and private response and don’t know what to make of it because the admission in the BOT report is that 4 lead pastors knew about this by 2001 and they didn’t follow through with recommended corrective action (Loey has publicly said 23-24 years ago which puts it even earlier around 1995)

It would be surprising, but it is possible that these men don’t know the fundamentals of an apology. Private. Sincere. Humble. Remorseful. Passing no blame. Making amends as best as possible.

I suppose there are many reasons. Maybe they don’t think it was all that big a deal. But I do wonder if they have not communicated with the victims because they are worried that an apology would be an admission of guilt and open them up to legal action.

The silence is deafening.

[GodisFaithful]

Honey,

I see that you are bleeding and hurt, but you see, I am sanguine-phlegmatic, and let me explain to you what that means...so, to be more clear, in these situations I do not take responsibility like I should. It's the way God wired me, and maybe you have never noticed this before so I hope it is helpful for you to have me to point out to you the intricacies of my personality. On top of that, I was having one of those melancholic days. After this, try to stay out of my blind spot.

There. 

[Wrestling]

Honey,

I see that you are bleeding and hurt, but you see, I am sanguine-phlegmatic, and let me explain to you what that means...so, to be more clear, in these situations I do not take responsibility like I should. It's the way God wired me, and maybe you have never noticed this before so I hope it is helpful for you to have me to point out to you the intricacies of my personality. On top of that, I was having one of those melancholic days. After this, try to stay out of my blind spot.

There. 

This gave me chills. It’s so scary to think of people in authority as seeing serious issues as personality quirks. No wonder I have such issues with the words “submit” and “authority” these days - because the dudes who tried to engrave those terms in my head and heart were so capable of emotional abuse.

[Badger]

Honey,

I see that you are bleeding and hurt, but you see, I am sanguine-phlegmatic, and let me explain to you what that means...so, to be more clear, in these situations I do not take responsibility like I should. It's the way God wired me, and maybe you have never noticed this before so I hope it is helpful for you to have me to point out to you the intricacies of my personality. On top of that, I was having one of those melancholic days. After this, try to stay out of my blind spot.

There. 

Excellent!

I would just add, "Are you able to forgive me completely and immediately like Jesus forgives you?  Would you forgive me so I can get back to my driving?"

[Linda]

Using the words "personal response" in your "sermon" title does not make the "sermon" a "personal response" to the victims.

Making the victims find online and listen to a "sermon" that included 15 minutes of praise of the person who "engaged in inappropriate conduct" including "time alone with women" and "inappropriate conversations with women of a sexual nature" hardly qualifies as a personal response.

http://evergreenbloomington.com/listen?sapurl=LytydHQ4L2xiL21pLys0Y2d0OGtiP2JyYW5kaW5nPXRydWUmZW1iZWQ9dHJ1ZQ==

[Linda]

The Rock message is up.

Apparently, Mark Darling decided to resign a month ago.

Also, they read his resignation letter and people can ask for a copy. Anyone have a copy they would care to share?

http://www.rockthechurch.com/listen?sapurl=Lyszd3oyL2xiL21pLytnaDlxZjY1P2JyYW5kaW5nPXRydWUmZW1iZWQ9dHJ1ZQ==

[Rebel in a Good Way]

I'm tempted to contact them and say I was bullied by Jeromy so I think that entitles me to a copy? 

The Rock message is up.

Apparently, Mark Darling decided to resign a month ago.

Also, they read his resignation letter and people can ask for a copy. Anyone have a copy they would care to share?

http://www.rockthechurch.com/listen?sapurl=Lyszd3oyL2xiL21pLytnaDlxZjY1P2JyYW5kaW5nPXRydWUmZW1iZWQ9dHJ1ZQ==

[Rebel in a Good Way]

Wrestling, I'm really sorry for your experience.  And I guess for my own because I have the similar aftermath.  Submit; obey; God-honoring authority; God set it up this way; God put leaders in your life to speak to you; it doesn't always make sense but you are called to submit; pastors are accountable to God directly; God has appointed these men; these men are amazing, godly, servant leaders; listen while I use am example from my own life, making me seem like a really good Christian; you're such a rebel (but in a good way); incessant talk about how much these men give up to lead the church; our authority comes from God; you need to grow and mature to be like us...

In every way these men set themselves up "over" the people and asked for allegiance that doesn't belong to them.  I do believe some people are called to be shepherds and pastors in a church, but not with the emphasis on human authority.  And then to see what these men did and how they are reacting. 

I am out, free, and have been for years, but it makes me hurt for the young woman who bought in to all of that stuff and all the people who currently do. 

Honey,

I see that you are bleeding and hurt, but you see, I am sanguine-phlegmatic, and let me explain to you what that means...so, to be more clear, in these situations I do not take responsibility like I should. It's the way God wired me, and maybe you have never noticed this before so I hope it is helpful for you to have me to point out to you the intricacies of my personality. On top of that, I was having one of those melancholic days. After this, try to stay out of my blind spot.

There. 

This gave me chills. It’s so scary to think of people in authority as seeing serious issues as personality quirks. No wonder I have such issues with the words “submit” and “authority” these days - because the dudes who tried to engrave those terms in my head and heart were so capable of emotional abuse.

[Linda]

In the Rock message, did you notice that he said Mark was one of the co-founders of The Rock. Hmmmmm, I wonder who the other co-founder was?

Hmmmmm, I wonder why that other co-founder was removed from the ECC history along with his brother-in-law, John van Dyck, who also was removed from the ECC history.

So much mystery.

[GodisFaithful]

Listened to Brent's message again.

It was a "response" not an "apology", after all. And it was very personal.  It was all about Brent himself, how he has been anxious and losing sleep and worried. Very personal. And also, about how he personally respects Mark Darling so much and thinks Mark is just wonderful and has wonderful gifts and he personally has been so impacted by Mark Darling because Mark Darling is so wuuuuunderful. Unfortunately Mark Darling has done some terrible things as a pastor but that was not mentioned except in very vague language about how if Brent had just been a little better of a friend this could have all been prevented.

Did we really expect an apology to the women? Yes, but I don't think it's coming. This was about Evergreen and minimizing the fall out.

The women who were mistreated are wonderful, too. They are wonderful for coming forward like they did, little Davids against Goliath. But they did not receive honorable mention.

They were not praised or appreciated from the stage for their courage in coming forward with the truth of Mark Darling's behavior toward them, Suzanne for the third time. From Brent's high and lofty perch I am not sure he can see that far down below. Mark Darling, now he is very important. The women, not so much.

I wish that at Evergreen the ground was level at the foot of the cross.