Instanta-Friends-in-a-Can

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[blonde]

Linda was chatting in another stream-thread of what cults are and saying how GC was much like what the article said.  What stood out at me was one of the items she cited.

Beware of "instant friends", remember true friendships  develop over time.Amazing how those instant friendships end quickly when you leave the church.

I can assure you the same, when I started in GCx, the friends came in masses.  When I left.  No friends.  Are there any out there too who had the same experiences that you were almost like a life-long friend after one meeting? 

-Blonde

[blonde]

I had one friend that was kind of instanta.  Doug Hill.  Anyone recall that name?  I think he and Carol left ECC after awhile too like me.  Doug Hill was from Ames. 

[Anonymous]

I can assure you the same, when I started in GCx, the friends came in masses.  When I left.  No friends.  Are there any out there too who had the same experiences that you were almost like a life-long friend after one meeting? 

Oh man.

I noticed this so much when I left for a summer for work - no one bothered communicating with me at all, it's like I fell off the face of the earth. There is a strong, prevalent friendliness that seems so fake if you have any sort of disagreement or move away.... in some regards, I wish I was not even close to being saved, because I think I'd have far more people actively caring about what's going on in my life

[Drew]

Wow, I can totally relate.

I was quite literally born and raised in a GCx church.  I am now 19 years old, and finally forced my way out only 6 months ago after endless disputes with my highly GCx devoted parents. I had so many friends whom I have known since early childhood, but upon leaving for a new church, have lost. The feelings of shame and guilt are ever present, and I've been left alone to essentially restart my life. (Well worth it by the way).  I can definitely relate to the idea of "Instant Friends", and I have personally felt how quickly they disappear when you leave the church.   My girlfriend and I are now trying to reconstruct a social life for myself at her church, of which I have joined. Yes. I said girlfriend...different story for a different time...

[Linda]

Drew,
I want to welcome you to the Decom forum. We went to Lakeville-ECC for several years. I'm Linda Dugan. My husband and I may or may not have been your Sunday School teachers in 3rd grade.

I am so sorry for the difficulties you have had with ECC. Especially how all this has affected your relationship with your parents and your friends.

We left ECC in 2005. There were two things that happened that resulted in our departure. Last straw kind of things. The first was a talk that Mark Darling gave at an all church event at Hosanna (ECC rented it, not sure if you were there) called "Fanning the Flame". It was February 2005.

Do you know how we really know that we are passionately committed to Christ, the head? Because of your passionate commitment to his body, the bride, the people sitting next to you. Your love goes no deeper than that. Your commitment goes no deeper than that. You've had mine, as you know for 18 years, and you'll have it till I die…you see, God, he put me in this church, he didn't put me in the church down the street. Do I hate that church down the street? No, because they're also the bride of Christ, but that's another man's bride. You're mine…your heart is in love with Christ as your heart is in love with your local church…would you say that I really loved my wife if I withheld my money from her? Would you say that we really love God if we keep it from the bride?…I've been now 30 years with Great Commission churches, I'll die with Great Commission churches. I'll die in a Great Commission church. You are part of Great Commission churches…they have my heart…

Many red flags came up that night. First of all, the sectarian nature of the group. For a church that preaches unity, this was a highly divisive message. News Flash: There is only ONE Church. The idea that MD would commit to his local church for life and/or DIE in a GC church was astonishing to us. Clearly, for a pastor/teacher, his view of the Church is fundamentally flawed. Then, he referred to the gathering of all ECC churches as "his bride". Really, was he saying he was Jesus Christ? I choose to believe he was just careless with his words. But, in addition to all the character qualities, elders must be "able to teach". They can't be inaccurate or mislead because they are careless with words. We met with Spencer (by this time we had moved to Bloomington again and SB was our pastor, MD was not a pastor at our church) the next day to discuss this flawed view of the Church. SB said the comment about ECC being his bride "didn't set right" with him, either.

This started a series of meetings. SB, BK, TW, MD, and a lot of Googling. We came across the name Jim McCotter, found Great Commission on cult watch lists, etc. We learned of a Statement of Error in 1991 and asked BK about it. He described it as "more a statement of clarification" rather than error. We asked for a copy. He didn't get us one, even though he said he would. We contacted Larry Pile at Wellspring (a cult rehab center founded by ex-GC leaders!), he sent us one, along with his compiled history of GC entitled "Marching to Zion" and now available at the gcx site. We were sickened. We had no idea how the movement worked and we had been there 10 years.

The final straw was HSLT in 2005 where our high school daughter (on an expensive trip to Colorado funded by us) was asked by MD to commit to GC for the rest of her life. We left the next month. Parents decide where their minor children living at home will attend church. GC elders inserting themselves between parents and their minor children was the error that led to our departure.

It was hard as parents to pull our children away from their friends. Heartbreaking, in fact. Their friends are great kids. We did not forbid them to associate with their friends, but the way the system works is that everything friends do is church related. So, asking our children to not go to church functions, pretty much meant that most regular ties with friends were cut because everyone is always busy with "church work".

When I read how your lifelong friends disappeared when you left the church, I knew exactly what you were talking about. The friendships in groups like this are very conditional. There is no loyalty. It is heartbreaking.

I am glad to hear you have found another church and continue in the faith. I pray God's blessing and direction on you.

[blonde]

Drew:

I said Mark Darling is like a demagogue.  I looked up that word:
1. A leader who seeks support by appealing to popular desires and prejudices rather than by using rational argument.
2. (in ancient Greece and Rome) A leader or orator who espoused the cause of the common people.

How true at ECC and of Dark Marling.

[Drew]

haha!  Yup! You guys were definitely my 3rd grade Sunday school teachers.    I've also been to a few of your son's birthday parties, and in fact remember what I got him as a gift, quite some years go. Thank you so much for being willing to share your story.

You know what bugs me most about it?  For years I've seen close families from ECC disappear, but never once did I hear why, or get any explanation. They were just gone. And from what I saw, I never knew of really anyone who continued connecting with them after they left.  It truly is like GCx believes you're lost if you leave the movement, cause they treat you that way.  It definitely doesn't display the type of unity I think the bible talks about in regards to the body of Christ, as you said, ONE church. 

If you guys are still in the area, I would love to meet with you and talk more about your experience with leaving?  Facebook me if you'd be interested.  I'm just trying to find the best way to get out, and any wisdom or experience from others helps deeply.

[Janet Easson Martin]

Hi Drew!

Just wanted to write a short note since since I am signing off.  For all in your position:

• Pour Your Heart Out to God
• Listen and Believe What He Says Compassionately Back to You
• Ask Him to Remind You or Show You of Appropriate and Guiding Truth from His Word
• Read or Remember and Ponder This Truth in Your Heart
• Ask God to Help You to Do What He Says to You
• Expect Amazing Love and Great Hope

Write more later,

Janet

[Linda]

Drew,

I figured it must be you. Couldn't remember any other Drews!

Your middle paragraph struck a chord. It's so weird how people just disappear. Close friends never asked us why we left. It was odd. I have since learned that some were told by pastors not to ask us why--as though we left for an embarrassing reason or something, I guess. We were asked to stick to a two sentence statement saying why we left if anyone asked. We did not agree to that. Very bizarre and sad.

I still believe that there are a number of church members, including pastors, who are in the dark on a lot of what is going on in the movement. They are not allowed to hear the other side of the story because that would be listening to a "bad report", so they continue in ignorance and view people who try to point out their error as troublemakers.

We are still in the area. We would be more than willing to talk more of our experience.

God bless you, Linda

[margaret]

Just read this in my private Facebook group "Recovery From Religious Trauma" (formerly named Post-Traumatic Church Syndrome):
http://johnpavlovitz.com/2016/02/11/a-letter-from-a-backsliding-prodigal-heretic-to-my-christian-friends-still-on-the-inside/

SO good for those of us who are "no longer talked about" in our ex-GCM church.

[theresearchpersona]

Just read this in my private Facebook group "Recovery From Religious Trauma" (formerly named Post-Traumatic Church Syndrome):
http://johnpavlovitz.com/2016/02/11/a-letter-from-a-backsliding-prodigal-heretic-to-my-christian-friends-still-on-the-inside/

SO good for those of us who are "no longer talked about" in our ex-GCM church.

I actually look at these and go "but he's not actually showing he's really matured." It's not as simple as "being in" or "going out": it's what you're were in and weren't, and what you've gone out into and from.

Falsely spiritual people like to blur the lines, make things more ambiguous and "about the journey" vs. talk about lines they've crossed or are crossing.

Maturity is seeing the lines and steps, not saying you're not quite sure where you're at or where you are going, but you think it's godly that you are there or getting somewhere and it's worth bragging about or following.

And this thread was very simple: about false friendship, or false love.

Christian love must be sincere or it is neither love, nor are you Christian. GCers fail in this because they manufacture love "to save people for Jesus!!!" not realizing the immense damage they do to souls in practicing such trickery (read Paul in 1 Corinthians about Christians being marked by having renounced trickery) who have believed they were friends and fellows of brotherly love, but actually they were interested so long as you gave participation to their programs in which they are "doing great things which are God's work and seeing great things, oh aren't we/isn't this important!"

GCers tend to remain worldly and love those who love them or who are "cool", hip, fashionable, trendy...because they have never really been regenerate to turn and judge things rightly--at least in my experience.

The line in the sand:

"Let your love be unfeigned. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.--Romans 12:9"