Investigation Updates

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[Faith]

I've heard from Evergreen's supporters side that they take issue with the fact that John has not commented very publically and that Suzanne was the only public victim. Now that John has gone on tape and that another victim (Natalie) has come forward -- does this change anyone's perception?

Not trying to start a heated debate I'm just curious as to whether this evidence will sway anyone's opinion.

[Greentruth]

What evidence?

[Mango]

What did Natalie really even accuse him of? He talked to her about an area of life that messes a lot of people up. OK. Pastors are known to do that.

And what did John bring to the table as far as corroborating evidence? I'm not sure.

[Faith]

1. People took issue with the fact that John did not come forth right away and "support his wife." Jeromy went so far as to suggest that any statements on John's Facebook were not made by John. John has come forth supporting his wife on Fox News.

2. Other Evergreen supporters said that it was solely Suzanne making these accusations. Natalie has come forth publicly saying that Mark Darlimg spiritually abused her and there were heavily sexual undertones. Fox News also spoke to another victim who declined to be anonymous.

If you did not watch the broadcast, I suggest you do so. If you did watch the broadcast, my question still stands -- how do you reconcile the fact that 3 confirmed women have alleged abuse from Darling?

Edit: 3 women, confirmed by Fox News. Suzanne, Natalie, and another anonymous woman. Suzanne has stated that there are more, but I assume you do not accept those in the tally.

[Shamednomore]

This story is such a brave example of truth telling.  Many people have been trying to silence and discredit these women and their stories, but they will not stop until MD and the pastors who helped cover up his manipulative, abusive behavior are held accountable.  I hope it inspires others to come forward and to not be silent and to not feel alone.  I hope it forces MD and the other people who have known the truth for years to do the right thing.  I hope it causes repentance from MD.  I hope Jeromy, Gretchen and their followers are embarrassed for the way they attacked the victims on this forum.  Attacked them using not only their own usernames, but it seems as if they have also created multiple accounts/usernames to discredit victims and speak highly of themselves.  Ex: go search all the comments by “iamnotafraid”.  I would love to know who this is if it isn’t Gretchen.  Not that it matters but if it is her, it shows the true narcissism behind who these people are.
Also, the article on fox 9 states The new declaration by evergreen that “gcm is now reliant missions” and evergreen isn’t associated with that org.  This statement sounds like a lawyer twist to create confusion or a loophole.  Is their lawyer, or wait, the “independent investigator”, giving them advice on how to distance themselves from the mess of gcm?  I hope people keep asking questions that force the whole truth to come to light.  Gcm has been changing their name for years to distance from their history and their past.  But the same people that were in charge backbthen are still in charge now.  Brent Knox, Doug Patterson, mark Darling and even Kathy Darling were all in the original meeting where Suzanne bravely told her story.  The telling of this story on the news is a step in the right direction of holding people accountable and to continue to push for the truth. 

[araignee19]

Attacked them using not only their own usernames, but it seems as if they have also created multiple accounts/usernames to discredit victims and speak highly of themselves.  Ex: go search all the comments by “iamnotafraid”.  I would love to know who this is if it isn’t Gretchen.  Not that it matters but if it is her, it shows the true narcissism behind who these people are.

I have wondered this many times myself. Isthisreal?, Greentruth, and Iambitafraaid sure sound a lot like DLM/Jeremy, and maybe Gretchen. Maybe toned down slightly to avoid being "blacklisted." I have no real idea if this is true, and had not seen a reason to suggest it until now. However, I think it is possible for two reasons: the similarity in tone and tactics, and the timing. They arrived on the scene around the same time those others went quiet. It does also fit the pattern of GCx name changes to distance themselves from past wrongs, so make that 2.5 reasons.  

Ultimately, it doesn't matter if they are the same people or not. They use the same horrible, personal, and demeaning attacks and tactics. I'm glad they haven't been getting too much response lately. I am done responding to them. I think their words say enough on their own.  


Now back on the topic of the investigation, I thought last night's story was well done. Balanced. Didn't really even make much of an accusation, and made Mark's position very clear (denies everything). It didn't demonize anyone. Didn't "defame" the Church or attempt to "destroy ECC." It did discredit some of what the ECC supporters have been saying, such as implying that Suzanne must be lying because even her husband doesn't support her. I personally will continue to wait for the ECC results to make up my mind. Who knows, maybe even at that time my mind will still be at "not sure." But I certainly thought that was a fair news story. I hope it helps holds ECC accountable to do what they said they would.

[Greentruth]

araignee19,  my preseption of your ability to distinguish reality from caterwauling has also been diminished, but I do thank you for putting me in the same boat as who you did. I have never met more loving and caring people in my life. It would seem you and others think this is just a game of debate and who can win the argument. People’s lives are being destroyed here and you and a few seem to revel in it. My heart is not only sad for MD, his family and the church, and I mean every Church, but it really saddens me to see such an over the top attack on Gods people.

As far as this supposed news cast, exactly what I expected. Soap opera musical along with gloomy and erroneous views of woods etc.   we learned nothing more than what has already been said. We have results from the only true independent investigation coming out soon. I will wait until that is brought to light before making any more comments. I’m done trying to insert the truths that are obvious on this form. It is also abundantly obvious that no truth or fact contrary to the agenda here will even be considered. I hope you see the reality of the dark place you are here, before those ingrained in their bitterness bring you down to their level. I pray the light of our Lord will shine on the truth, and the truth shine abundantly on the results. My time here has not been fun, and in many instances having to go to prayer on my knees for guidance and strength to continue. Forgive my harshness at times as I withdraw with no anger or hate to anyone. But I would caution those new here. There is a wide range of beliefs an heart stances here. Read back to prior threads before making judgement. As I have said they define themselves.

[Greentruth]

One thing I think I should mention to araignee19 and Linda. When I first came to this form, I fully intended to state my perception of what I saw here verses what I lived for twenty years at ECC, and then leave for good, as I said to you. What led me to stay was the remaks from you two. Linda slamming me as a drive by, and araignee19 messaging me a chewing out of sorts. Peace to you both. I sincerely pray for your hearts. Good day

[araignee19]

Just to clarify to everyone, I did message greentruth. It was yesterday. I and my "chewing out" of him are not the reason he has chosen to stay so long. I hope I'm one of the reasons he chooses to leaves.

[Greentruth]

Just to clarify to everyone, I did message greentruth. It was yesterday. I and my "chewing out" of him are not the reason he has chosen to stay so long. I hope I'm one of the reasons he chooses to leaves.

No 19   Your message was after my very first post, and no you are not the only reason I leave for now. It’s the whole form and fruitless attempts to bring truth and facts to light

[Rebel in a Good Way]

I read some things written by Natalie (I haven't looked at everything).  It looks like she was excommunicated for divorcing her abusive husband after years of trying to follow the church's counsel to improve their marriage.  She finally got tired of male Christian leaders excusing the behavior of some badly behaving Christian males and failing to hold them accountable but instead placing the burden on the victim.  She sounds credible to me.


PS There are many male Christian leaders who will hold other men accountable.  I am not referring to those men here.  

[araignee19]

Just to clarify to everyone, I did message greentruth. It was yesterday. I and my "chewing out" of him are not the reason he has chosen to stay so long. I hope I'm one of the reasons he chooses to leaves.

No 19   Your message was after my very first post, and no you are not the only reason I leave for now. It’s the whole form and fruitless attempts to bring truth and facts to light

You are correct. This will be my final response to you, but I owe it because I outright was wrong on that. I did message you way back then (didn't notice my outbox has multiple pages and missed it). Please feel free to share what I sent you with everyone here if you want. I stand by what I said and how I said it. If that is the reason you chose to stay, I feel bad for you. If you chose to stay due to what you yourself thought was right, don't blame others. Own up. Peace out.

And back to the topic of the investigation.

[HughHoney]

erroneous views of woods

Before you leave this “form” forever can we get a little bit more from you on the erroneous views of woods?

[Phoenix]

Also, the article on fox 9 states The new declaration by evergreen that “gcm is now reliant missions” and evergreen isn’t associated with that org.  This statement sounds like a lawyer twist to create confusion or a loophole.  Is their lawyer, or wait, the “independent investigator”, giving them advice on how to distance themselves from the mess of gcm? 

Not arguing (or at least not trying to argue), but just to clarify some things.

"Through a spokesperson, Evergreen disputes this. The church said John was employed by GCM, now known as Reliant Mission, not Evergreen."  

1.  I don't think it is lawyer double speak.  I think they were just clarifying that at some point during the preparation to do the Berlin church plant he transitioned to becoming an employee of GCM.  Is it a way to distract?  Perhaps, but it is factual I believe he was an employee of GCM at that time.
2.  When this all happened it was called GCM, the name changed.  They could have said he was an employee of "Reliant"... that would have been distancing and more deceptive.
3.  There is a difference between GCM, now Reliant and GCAC (formerly GCC).  GCM/Reliant was the campus/overseas arm of GCC in many ways it is my understanding that the two organizations have become more and more separated from each other organizationally.  Yes, GCAC churches will use Reliant to help them send people overseas but Reliant in some wants is a facilitator and offers services that a GCAC church is not able to provide.

[Huldah]

It would seem you and others think this is just a game of debate and who can win the argument. People’s lives are being destroyed here and you and a few seem to revel in it.

I don't know anyone who thinks this is a game. There's no happiness here. There's no gloating. There will be no winners, no matter how this plays out, only different degrees of loss.

If Mark Darling did the things he's accused of--notice I said "if," even though we now have those additional accusers we were told didn't exist--then the accusers are not destroying his life. If he's guilty, he has destroyed himself.

[Badger]

Also, the article on fox 9 states The new declaration by evergreen that “gcm is now reliant missions” and evergreen isn’t associated with that org.  This statement sounds like a lawyer twist to create confusion or a loophole.  Is their lawyer, or wait, the “independent investigator”, giving them advice on how to distance themselves from the mess of gcm? 

Not arguing (or at least not trying to argue), but just to clarify some things.

"Through a spokesperson, Evergreen disputes this. The church said John was employed by GCM, now known as Reliant Mission, not Evergreen."  

1.  I don't think it is lawyer double speak.  I think they were just clarifying that at some point during the preparation to do the Berlin church plant he transitioned to becoming an employee of GCM.  Is it a way to distract?  Perhaps, but it is factual I believe he was an employee of GCM at that time.
2.  When this all happened it was called GCM, the name changed.  They could have said he was an employee of "Reliant"... that would have been distancing and more deceptive.
3.  There is a difference between GCM, now Reliant and GCAC (formerly GCC).  GCM/Reliant was the campus/overseas arm of GCC in many ways it is my understanding that the two organizations have become more and more separated from each other organizationally.  Yes, GCAC churches will use Reliant to help them send people overseas but Reliant in some wants is a facilitator and offers services that a GCAC church is not able to provide.

Reliant's webpage notes that Great Commission Ministries (GCM) was "founded as the mission agency for the Great Commission Association of Churches" in 1989.  While GCM is a separate entity as Reliant today, GCM in practice was a branch of GCAC.  It was not a separate entity.

GCM was responsible for producing the Great Commission Pastors Conference, Leadership Training (LT) , High School Leadership Training (HSLT), High School Summer Intern Program (SIP).  John Hopler, David Bovenmyer, and Dennis Clark sat on GCM's Board of Directors.  Prior to moving to Florida, GCM was located in Worthington, OH.  In the late 90's early 2000's, GCAC and GCM were tightly enmeshed both in origin and personnel.

I do find it problematic that GCC shifts responsibility off of itself when problematic situations arise.  If abuse occurs in a GCC associated church, GCC and John Hopler can point out that they are only associated with and not connected to the church.  Evergreen, in the Fox 9 news story, distanced themselves from the employment of John Van Dyck by noting the Rock Berlin was under GCM.  It seems Evergreen and GCC use corporate structures to avoid taking responsibility.  The corporate structures that allow GCC and Evergreen to note such separation are based on corporate law.

John Hopler is a lawyer by training.  The possibility of Nicholas Wenner - a practicing attorney - being an Evergreen Board member has been proposed on this forum.  Available legal knowledge exists outside of the current "internal" investigation that allows GCC and Evergreen to use language that is legally accurate while producing a protective layer of separation when problems in GCC associated churches arise.