Is GC "orthodox protestant"?

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[Linda]

On the GCC web page there is a section of frequently asked questions.
http://www.gccweb.org/about/faq/

Question number 4 is about the doctrinal beliefs of GC. At the end of the answer is this surprising link.
http://www.gccweb.org/about/doctrinal-beliefs

I have a lot to say about this little article, but the second sentence is, in my opinion, rather deceiving.

It says: "The GCC association is evangelical in doctrine and practice, holding to the basic truths of orthodox, protestant Christianity."

The first thing that comes to mind in the defense of GC is that perhaps they are clueless about what "Protestant Christianity" is. I'm serious. For whatever reason (lack of seminary, lack of personal study of theology, faulty GCLI teaching, whatever) it would appear that these people are clueless about Protestant teaching or are being deceptive.

As a refresher, among other things (like denying transubstantiation) the Protestant movement, took a stand against the authority of the Pope and emphasized the priesthood of the believer.

Orthodox (small "o") protestantism holds to the 5 solos. Scripture alone. Faith alone. Grace alone. Christ alone. Glory to God alone.

Clearly, as demonstrated by their teaching and practice, GC does not hold to the concept of the priesthood of the believer and sola scripture.

Anytime you elevate a pastor (who was "recognized" by other "elders" who were "recognized" by "elders" in a chain of apostolic succession that goes all the way back to three men--McCotter, Hopler, Martindale--who 40 years ago proclaimed themselves apostles) to a position that gives him authority to tell church members where to work, who to marry, what church to go to, how to spend your money. Any time you tell church members that you should give the controls of your life to the men God works through, or to surrender your will to a leader or their movement, you have fallen away from anything resembling "orthodox Protestantism" and moved into sect territory.

This is NOT orthodox Christianity and I don't think the NAE would approve :

…Why is that verse in there? Do you know why? Because when it comes to surrendering yourself, and yielding to another, you're going to have worries about it. And that verse, if you're going to read it Biblically in context, the context is your worry associated with the surrender and the deference you are showing to those who are over you in the Lord…I knew that I needed to place myself under the leadership of men who were living exemplary lives who could train me to be what God wanted me to be…we don't tend to view what Hebrews 13:17 says very seriously, "Obey your spiritual leaders and submit to their authority for they keep watch over your souls as one who must give an account"…He's asking Mark, the rebel, to submit himself not only to God. See it's easy to say I submit to God, but do you know how we know that you submit to God, you know how I knew if I was submitting to God? I was willing to submit to the spiritual authority in my life and listen to what they had to say and apply what they told me and seek to implement the instruction of my trainers…I had to decide, would I allow someone else to be my trainer, my spiritual master, so to speak. Would I embrace and follow the teaching and instruction of my leaders as they followed Christ? Would I place myself under the God given authority of my elders? Would I defer to them and let them mold me. This would demonstrate my submission to God because Christ asked me to do it…The question is, "What will you do with what your overseer says?" I made my choice. This was the single most important decision I made and have continued to make. I have surrendered my will, not only to God, but I have surrendered it to this movement called Great Commission Churches. I've surrendered to John Hopler. to Rick Whitney. To Tom Short who I work with. I've surrendered it to Hershel Martindale. I've surrendered it to Brent Knox. I have submitted myself. I am but a slave. I would never trust anyone but a fellow slave to lead me. Do you understand that? I would never trust anyone but a fellow slave who understands that mindset…and so we submit to the Word of God and we submit to the Word of God as it comes through the mouth of those who are responsible before God for our lives…but if you don't submit to the teaching of a trainer, of someone who God has placed in your life, to grow you, to direct you, to build you, and defer to what they are sharing…the way I demonstrate to you that Christ is my life is that you are my life. This body of churches that I work with, they are my life. This isn't a job to me…I eat it, sleep it, breathe it, drink it. I am your slave…I'd like you to bow your heads this evening and I guess you could call this my birthday message to you. I really, really care about you. I really care about you. I love you. My life is for service to you…Father, this is for these young men and women as it says in Jeremiah and Lamentations, actually, it's good for a man, it's good for a young man to bear the yoke in his youth, there is no oxen that's worth anything that will not be yoked with another and plow a field. We eat the ones that don't submit to the yoke. Father, we never read about the horses out in the wild. We read about the horses that have submitted themselves to the training, and often times the difficult training of another. I pray, Heavenly Father, that you give us tonight in this church, the heart, and the will, and the spirit to say, "Lord, here is my life, I submit it to you, I submit it to the spiritual authorities that you have in my life, train me, lead me, guide me, mold me instruct me, like you did your Son…"

...and so we submit to the Word of God and we submit to the Word of God as it comes through the mouth of those who are responsible before God for our lives... IS NOT ORTHODOX PROTESTANT CHRISTIANITY!

[Huldah]

From the link above:

At the same time, each local church in GCC is autonomous under the Lord Jesus Christ, and some churches may want to emphasize other biblical doctrines or practices not mentioned in the GCC doctrinal or core values statements...

One should also be aware that a specific position taken in a message or book by a pastor in a GCC church does not necessarily represent the views of GCC or of other GCC churches.  In addition, a teaching or presentation by a GCC pastor in books offered on the GCC website or in a message given at a GCC-sponsored conference, ultimately represents that author or teacher and not necessarily the entire GCC association.

See how subtle the error is? "...some churches may want to emphasize other biblical doctrines or practices..." The problem isn't that they're emphasizing biblical doctrines and practices. The problem is that they're imposing unbiblical doctrines and practices that exalt imperfect pastors to the place Christ should have, while placing believers under bondage.

[Linda]

Glad you picked up on that, also, Huldah.

"One should also be aware that a specific position taken in a message or book by a pastor in a GCC church does not necessarily represent the views of GCC or of other GCC churches.  In addition, a teaching or presentation by a GCC pastor in books offered on the GCC website or in a message given at a GCC-sponsored conference, ultimately represents that author or teacher and not necessarily the entire GCC association."

I would imagine this statement is in response to the criticism made on this forum about horrible teaching at Faithwalkers, Pastor's Conferences, HSLTs, etc. that remains uncorrected and continues to be taught regularly.

First off the word "necessarily" is used twice. Are we "sheeple" supposed to feel better about this? It is not a denial or a correction, after all. In fact, the word "necessarily" is meaningless and would appear to be used here to get individual pastors to take the hit for bad teaching and lead the reader to assume that bad teaching at national events is not the responsibility of the the national board while at the same time perpetuating it.

Aside from demonstrating a lack of concern for sound doctrine, it demonstrates poor leadership. If you are in charge of something as important as solid Bible teaching, realize that the teaching that you have allowed to happen is wrong, and do nothing about it, you are guilty as charged.

GCC board, you can't have it both ways and allow unsound, unorthodox teaching to continue uncorrected at national conferences. GCC board members, you can't teach things that are contrary to orthodox protestantism and then deny any responsibility for allowing it to happen.

Parents/students/GCC church members reading this. If members of the national board of your movement teach things that are wrong at national conferences and these things go unchallenged or uncorrected and continue to be taught, the only logical conclusion is that this is what the groups believes and this is the teaching that they want to perpetuate.

[Huldah]

GCC board, you can't have it both ways and allow unsound, unorthodox teaching to continue uncorrected at national conferences. GCC board members, you can't teach things that are contrary to orthodox protestantism and then deny any responsibility for allowing it to happen.

I think it goes beyond what a few rogue congregations may be teaching.

Commitment for life was being taught as early as the late 70's. Submission to the elders in all personal decisions was also being taught back in the 70's. The current leadership (those who were part of the movement back then) believed those teachings back then. If they're still allowing them to be taught, then I must conclude that that's still what they believe.

We know perfectly well from our own experience that nothing gets taught in a GC church if the leadership objects to its being taught.

[Linda]

Totally agree, Huldah.

Paragraph 4 says:

Over the years, Great Commission has distributed audios, videos and books produced by current or former pastors in Great Commission.  Many of these books and teachings were produced in the 1980s by Great Commission International (GCI) before the significant leadership changes that occurred after GCI became Great Commission Churches in 1989.  Unless those books, audios or videos are presently made available on the GCC website, one should not assume that those materials represent the teaching of GCC today.

What a deceptive mess this paragraph is.

First, they distance themselves from the 1980's (forgetting to mention they were there and many of them were in leadership in the 80's) without issuing any corrections.

Then, they try to distance themselves through the name change, but cleverly do not correct the unsound teaching of the past that they participated in. GCI to GCC (wasn't GCAC in the middle between the latest move to GCC?).

Next, they distance themselves from materials that were sold by their movement in the past, but are no longer available. A careful person who knew the group he represented had sold some materials that contained error, or had taught error, would do all in his power to make sure the bad teaching of the past was corrected, and would repeat that corrected teaching as often as necessary to make sure the unsound teaching was not perpetuated. He would not ignore it, call people pointing it out names, or continue to teach it.

Finally, and this is my personal favorite, they claim that "unless those books, audios, or videos are presently made available on the GCC website, one should not assume that those materials represent the teaching of GCC today." Of course, in paragraph 3 they cleverly say, "In addition, a teaching or presentation by a GCC pastor in books offered on the GCC website or in a message given at a GCC-sponsored conference, ultimately represents that author or teacher and not necessarily the entire GCC association." They contradict themselves within two paragraphs!! Oh, what a tangled web we weave...

They say that unless the material (including audio) is on their web page one should not assume it represents GCC, but in the previous paragraph, they distance themselves from material on their web page.

Of course, what most of us know is that in spite of the Statement of Error, GC has never corrected any bad teaching. They remove it, hide it, cover it up, make it unavailable, yet they never make public correction.

Furthermore, Dennis Clark, who, along with McCotter wrote the Leadership book that taught unity over truth, still sits on the GCC board (in recent months they have moved his title to "emeritus"). They have never corrected the faulty teaching in the book he wrote and he sits on their board.

[Huldah]

"...One should not assume that those materials represent the teaching of GCC today."

But neither can one assume that those early teachings have been abandoned, since the leadership refuses to say so.

I can't think of a single legitimate reason for them to be so ambiguous about their teachings.