About me: Hey hey everybody! About 11 years ago two funny things happened. I visited my first GC church and immediately following that I discovered this message board. I've been a devoted GC member and GCx lurker ever since.
I'm deeply involved in my church (Evergreen Lakeville) and have been since day 1. I've done everything, man. GCLI, led small groups and ministries, worship leading, been involved in youth group since 2009, mission trips, Faithwalkers (led worship at it 3 times), pastors conferences (shared my testimony at one)...you name it! I've led and/or been involved in nearly every capacity there is to lead short of being on staff. I've drunk the Kool Aid and boy is it tasty.
Why this thread: I've seen a pattern of general accusations from this board, but a lot of those accusations seem outdated to me!
I can't speak about the GC church of the past--I can only speak about the church I've been a member of for the last 11 years. So with that, I would like to respond to the common stories I've seen on this thread with some of my OWN stories.
Note: My responses are based on my own experiences.
Double Note: I use a lot of smilies
. I'm sorry if you hate that but it shows you that I'm not angry!
GC teaches that casual dating is a sin- In my 11 years at Evergreen, I've never heard anyone say dating is a sin (and I've listened!). In fact I've noticed the youth leaders be super, super careful not to say those words. I've heard dating called stupid, unwise, pointless, damaging, etc... and I admit that is probably as close as you can get to calling it sin without actually calling it sin. Have we been a bit heavy-handed about it? Yeah, probably. Sorry!
That's what happens when imperfect people have convictions. But I've never seen it called a sin. We have PLENTY of kids in our youth group that casually date. And if they ask me what I think, I will tell them. And I will tell them because I love them and want what's best for them, and that's the most common approach I've seen. We're not going to throw away our convictions and principles, but we're constantly learning how to best share them.
- I take that back! In fact I HAVE heard exactly 1 person say the words "I think dating is a sin". It was a convo I had back in my college group with another guy in the group about 7ish years. I brought this up this guy last week and he laughed and said "Wow. I was an idiot." So, see, it happens. People change, people grow up.
GC tells you never to question your elders- Hahahaha! I bet my Pastor's would have wished this one was true when I joined the college group. I questioned them, to their faces, ALL THE TIME! Oh poor Charlie Meyer. I asked him stupid question after stupid question, often about stuff that was in the GC Core booklet, but he listened to them all and lovingly replied. I remember grilling Rick Whitney about the "committed to your church for life" doctrine at a Faithwalkers and he lovingly listened and replied. He even gave me a ride in his car to Faithwalkers a few years later. I've only ever seen an environment that encourages questions, not belittles them.
GC members worship Jim McCotter/Mark Darling/Elderguy Pastorsbee- Admire, revere, honor, double honor, triple-quadruple bonus honor? Absolutely I/we do! Worship the ground they walk on? Blah, I never have. Never seen it either. If by "worship" you mean "the butt of a lot of jokes" then maybe we're on the same page!
I know all my pastors and have eaten at their houses (and them at mine) and have seen their families. They're just men and women like you and me and everyone knows it.
Jim McCotter Jim McCotter Jim McCotter Jim McCotter Jim McCotter!- Who? Just kidding
. Gosh, you guys love to talk about Jim McCotter like we've got his picture in a frame next to our bibles
. Let me
blow your mind. 75% of the people in my congregation (leaders included) have never heard of him. I learned about him thanks to
you guys so I know that he co-founded the movement and then left and flies planes now or something. I guess I just...don't care? This great country was founded by slaves owners and bigots and we've changed (mostly). I think a church can successfully depart from its founder--especially after over
50 years!
GC shuns all members who leave their church- Heck yeah we do! Leave GC and you're
dead to me!! Just kidding just kidding
. Let me blow your minds again: I left Evergreen a year after I had joined. I even sought counsel from Charlie who suggested that I stay. I still said I was leaving and left. Far from shunning me, they prayed for me and blessed me in my efforts to honor God with my decision to go back to my Baptist church. I came back to Evergreen after a year, actually at the advice of my father who is a member of that Baptist church still. I've known others that have left to other churches (River Valley, Bethlehem Baptist, Hosanna, Berean, etc...) and they're doing GREAT and I'm GLAD for them! Now, I'll admit I'm not jumping for joy whenever something leaves. Of course it's sad to see someone go, especially if it's for reasons you don't agree with. But I don't grind an axe at them. I'm still friends with them on Facebook. I still "like" their stuff. You shake hands and move on, and if you run into them in the mall you say "hi" and ask how life is.
GC looks down at other churches- OK, I will admit it. I've looked down on other churches. But I did that when I was a member of Bible Baptist church, too. I did that when I was at Five Forks Baptist church too. Even to this day when I step inside another church building or service, I find it difficult to not look around and
judge and analyze everything. ("
Oh, you do your service like that? Pfft...that's now how we do it...") I've done that my whole life. Isn't that just the human condition, to be bias against things that aren't exactly like you? I would say this issue, and it's a real issue, is hardly specific to GC. It's a church thing and every denomination is guilty. But has GC been MORE guilty than others? From my experience--naw, man.
GC doesn't do anything with other churches/ministries- Sure, we don't do a LOT with other churches (isn't organizing one church difficult enough??
), but we're
not at all against it and we do some stuff! 3 years ago we did Time to Revive with hundreds of other churches in the Twin Cities (even with churches that had *gasp* female pastors!). We even hosted some of their meetings at our buildings. It was great! And many of our congregants still go to TTR meetings. My own sweet mother in law went to a TTR event in, I believe, Michigan with some other people in our congregation. Evergreen Bloomington works with Tree House ministry and one of their veteran pastors just raised support to be on part time with Tree House (meaning he is both a GC pastor and missionary for another organization). Another one of Bloomington's members is a full time minister for a separate Islamic Outreach organization. Our own Evergreen Lakeville has worked with non-GC churches in Latin America for years.
GC says that it is ONLY through the Local Church that God reaches the world.- What I've heard taught is "primarily, but not exclusively" and that's just our interpretation of what we see in the bible. We could be wrong in that, but we don't think we are. In fact, John Meyer gave a fantastic sermon at a pastors conference on something like this a couple years ago. I'll paraphrase: "One day, the GC movement will end, just like every other movement has eventually ended. And that's OK! We just need to make sure that we're doing what God wants us to do, in the time frame he wants us to do it, and nothing more or less. We don't need to worry about what other movements are doing. Maybe God has created them for a different purpose than us? Their movement and our movement can each glorify God. But while I'm in this church and in this movement, I will be committed to the person next to me, in our fox hole."
GC tells you to dump all your previous Christian friends and only be friends with other Christians from GC- Naww, I've never heard that. What I HAVE heard, and experienced, is that it usually makes sense to invest time and effort with those around you with whom you share the same mission (typically through your local church). But that's purely a preference. Nobody is wrong to be friends with believers from other churches.
You guys are a cult. This book says your a cult. This expert says your a cult.- Cool beans. So what? Who are these experts and why should I care what they think? I actually
love sharing the fact that we've been accused of being a cult. I do it often. It's easy laughs.
GC teaches that women are 2nd class citizens- If you think GC treats women unfairly then I'm gonna guess you think 90% of non-denominational and/or baptist churches in this country treat women unfairly as well. Our theology on women is generally the same. I've been a member of each kind of denom (GC, Non-denom, and Baptist) and the theology, or what I was exposed to, is the same. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one bruh.
Somebody once said something mean to me!They made me feel welcome at first but then they started to ignore me!Somebody said something behind my back and I got rebuked by a Pastor!- I'm sorry? I'm sure there's a perfect church in the next town where none of these things ever happen...
The music is too loud! Now it's too quiet! I'm cold! I'm hot! The sermon was too long! Too short!- As someone who has been the complainer and has been complained to, I can tell you this is just what happens when you get really, really involved in a church (or any group of people on a mission). Our facilities guy would often tell me "When the same amount of people are complaining that it's too hot and too cold, then I know I've got it just right."
I once heard a pastor say [wrong thing] at [big event] and it was never corrected!- Let me first counter that with the times I've seen where [
wrong thing] WAS corrected! It happens. I'm sorry to say, but it happens. This is, again again, not a GC thing, but a church thing. I'm glad I'm part of a church where questions and corrections are not only allowed, but encouraged. I'm sorry if that isn't what you experienced, but it IS what I've experienced.
I'm not here to tell anyone they're wrong! I'm not here to tell anyone that they weren't sincerely wronged by someone at sometime while at their GC church. I just felt convicted to share my side of the story. I sense bitterness on this forum by a few, and I encourage you to release it. I can assure you that the object of your bitterness probably doesn't care anymore, or has forgotten, or has moved on to something else.
