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Author Topic: Jeromy Darling in Christianity Today  (Read 16864 times)
blonde
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« on: July 22, 2011, 12:50:41 pm »

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/music/reviews/2011/youloved-mini.html

Is GCM from Minneapolis going to be legitimized thru the Darling family?  It might happen throgh the venue of his so-called music ministry, Jeromy's self-published songs and albums.  Singing does not make your group better than what your core ideas are all about.  The fact that Jeromy Darling is on the radar at the online Christianity Today, it might go to print and national someday.  

This really upsets me.  The Darling family is a family that has much influence in the GCx world.  Healthy or not, it is happening.  His singing and being in a national regcognized zine does not make the core ideas of GCx better or re-make the history of that place.  Mark hurt a lot of peoples lives getting 'his' church from small town to a mega-chruch status. The 3rd largest in Minnesota, in fact.  Quite a feat for a nearly high school drop-out from Iowa, who prides himself publicly in getting D-minuses.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2011, 01:00:42 pm by blonde » Logged

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Innerlight
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« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2011, 04:06:47 pm »

By whose calcualtion the third largest?  Just off the top of my head:  Wooddale, Living Word, Bethlehem, Grace, not to mention the huge Lutheran and Catholic churches in the area....  I can't think of their names, but the big church in New Hope, the Presbytarian church in Edina, The big Lutheran church in Lakeville, etc....  big evangelical church in Maple Grove. 

I have many, many friends in the ministry, and if you mention GCC, Mark Darling or anything related, it usually draws a blank.  Some have heard of Evergreen, and that's about it.  One friend referred to the whole movment as a 'franchise"...which was a different take on it. 
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MarthaH
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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2011, 04:35:03 pm »

Perhaps it is based on the database of megachurches put out by the Hartford Institute. They were listed on that site as one of the larger congregations with 2600 (probably the sum of all their locations).

Jeromy has written some very nice songs. I understand the frustration or fear that the ministry is being legitimized by having successful artists.
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blonde
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2011, 09:10:52 pm »

I looked up Hartford Institute, MarthaH.  This is what they say about Evergreen:

http://hirr.hartsem.edu/cgi-bin/mega/db.pl?db=default&uid=default&view_records=1&ID=*&sb=4&State=MN

I guess Mark did something to get his name on the list.  It does not say Brent Knox.  Ironic, as Brent asked Mark to come up and assist, and Mark just took over the whole damn ship.  Even BBC with John Piper has more members.   I agree, the music seems to be side-stepping the real theological issues and sociological issues at hand.  Wish Dr. Sam would pipe in and say something.  I always like what he has to say.  Music does not make ECC a better church, nor does it make it a worse church.  I am just still surprized that Jeromy Darling was cited on such a decent zine.  Fearful?  Yes.  She read my mind. 
« Last Edit: July 22, 2011, 09:18:07 pm by blonde » Logged

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Linda
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« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2011, 09:18:00 pm »

Interesting link, Blonde.
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blonde
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« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2011, 09:21:13 pm »

Linda: I almost find it laughable now looking over that list that ECC says it is the best church in town.  'There is always a better donut shop down the street' if you are willing to try it out, and look.  Those other churches with higher numbers, I've been to myself.  Mark is dead wrong and still does what the Statement of Weakness says.  OUR CHURCH IS THE BEST CHURCH IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD!!!

OR: Linda were you refering to the link of Jeromy on Christianity Today??
« Last Edit: July 22, 2011, 09:22:59 pm by blonde » Logged

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Linda
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« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2011, 09:27:19 pm »

Both are interesting, but I was referring to the list of churches and attendance. I had no idea Eagle Creek was that huge. I remember hearing that statistic, as well. I choose to believe they didn't lie, but rather sat around and thought of the few churches they knew of and of that group they were the third largest.
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MarthaH
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« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2011, 05:45:29 am »

When you are elitist, you eliminate many other churches as Christian. Our church was constantly finding fault with how other churches did things. Part of the formula for many messages is to start off by giving statistics of some moral area and make the correlation that Christian behavior is no different from the world's. For instance, you may hear, "divorce is as common in Christianity today as it is in the world". Couple that with some sketchy data that shows your churches have only a 2.5% divorce rate and you have now distanced yourself from the pack.

I'm sure that they do not include many other large churches in their classification as "Christian". Slightly off topic, but does anyone remember a staffer from ECC named Dan? I got to know him at a conference once. Nice guy. I think he and his wife left for Piper's church. Does anyone know why? When I asked a visiting pastor from Evergreen what he thought of Piper's church, he didn't really say anything nice. Made a comment that Piper's church hadn't seen many conversions. I found that interesting. A friend told me that most pastors and staff in the midwest GCx hate Piper's book, 'Desiring God', because after people read it, they often leave the churches.
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blonde
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« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2011, 01:52:23 pm »

MarthaH: are you talking about a guy with dark hair that was on the short side, Dan?  He was with the college aged kids and such?  Is that the Dan you are talking about?  As I do recall him.  Glad he left ECC for Piper's church. Sad that pastors were against that book, as they educated themselves, they saw how bad ECC is for them.

Dan was a real nice guy. 

Write me in the email message room, and we can discuss more about ECC.

-Blonde
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« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2011, 03:59:57 pm »

Jeromy has written some very nice songs. I understand the frustration or fear that the ministry is being legitimized by having successful artists.

tbh, I've found most of his music completely lacking in any substance whatsoever other than an emotional experience..
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Drew
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« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2011, 09:25:28 pm »

Blonde: Oh, and ECC definitely claims to be the best church in the "WHOLE WIDE WORLD!" I was born and raised in ECC-Lakeville, and just finally forced my way out 6 months ago after many disputes with my still GCx parents.    I can tell you story after story where pastors and other elders of ECC-lakeville would purposely bring up and compare themselves to other churches in the area, claiming to be better.  One instance that turned me off SO much, was in our high school ministry, Vertical, about 2 or 3 years ago.  One of the pastors had the idea to bring up other youth groups, and how they "would eat pizza and play games most all the evening", and then continue to say we we're better cause we went through full worship sessions, sermons, and discussions in small groups afterwards. 

ECC's tactics are fresh in my brain, unfortunately. 
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blonde
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« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2011, 08:52:36 pm »

Drew: I must say that is the very same reason I left.  I was part of ECC right before Mark started The Rock.  He was like a little demagogue walking around, and people were just repeating what he said in the conversations AFTER the sermon.  

I was part of the youth group when it was called TnT.  Crazy name changes.  I must be frank with you, when Ken Johnson was in charge of TnT later in years, he had pizza parties and did not have worship times.  It was just like "church."  Trying to not offend anyone but bring in everyone.  I hated it as it was worse at the helm with Ken Johnson.  Bible reading was actually discouraged.  

I'm glad you got out.  Send me a private message to my in-mail here, if you want to discuss further, but I think the chat would be far better if were open in the fourm.

Was it hard to leave with your GCx parents?

Cheers mate!

-Blonde
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 09:20:09 pm by blonde » Logged

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Drew
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« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2011, 07:23:30 am »

Blonde:  Well yes, I don't have anything against being very focused and spending your time listening to sermons and reading the scriptures, but when a church starts using that to excuse their elitist attitudes and "prove" that they are the better part of the body of christ, that's just sickening.  Makes me think of Matthew 18, verses 1 through 4.

"(1) At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
 (2) He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. (3) And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. (4) Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. (5) And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me."

In regards to leaving, yes it has been very, very difficult with my parents still being as devoted as they have always been.  My family has not always only been a very active family in ECC-Lakeville, but also ministry leaders and board members on and off throughout the years.  I've noticed as I've grown up some and out of the stage when my paretns can really control me much, they've switched from trying that to more of a guilt tripping manner.  They don't outright say they don't disapprove of me, and infact state they want me to discuss my convictions and differences openly, but I have litterally had my mother laugh at me while expressing my heart, and while pushing me to be further open with them.  I love my parents, and they are blessing from God in so many ways, but when they tell me they are interested in my life and care and want me to open up about  my changes, but then laugh at me in my face and won't even believe what I said, I'm rather turned off to having a close relationship with them. 
I was explaining, in a repestcful and calm manner, why I made the decision to change churches, as the discussion came up. I stated that my convictions have changed quite a bit in the last few years, and that I was just learning to become my own person and find the church home that fits me best, and to which my gifts can bless the most. I told my Mom that I had been praying about this this decision for about 5 months, and that I had personally discussed it one-on-one with 4 different men in my life whom I greatly respected and wanted to be like. 2 of which where actually still attending Evergreen. I told her that one of my biggest reasons for my deep interest in the new church I was looking at, was their pastor, Gary. She laughed under her breath, and asked (and I quote), "Is it Gary, or Michaela?" (My girlfriend who attends the church and how I found it.)  I guess I quickly found that the more I share the deep parts of my heart with them, the more then laugh and refuse to beleive me. It's been very difficult, but I am so grateful to be out of GCx, and even though it's been such a stressful change, I must say I think it's been one of the best decisions I have ever made. Michaela and I are so blessed at our church, and the fellowship and opportunity to bless the world with God's love has been so abundant. It's been hard, but the best things in life are often the hardest.

So, all that to say, yes, it was very difficult, and still is to be out of GCx, but despite the guilting and loss of so many friends, I feel free in a way i can't even begin to explain, and it feels so great. I feel closer to God everyday.  Smiley
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Puddleglum
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« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2018, 06:55:07 pm »

What makes a music ministry “so-called”?
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