Leadership: Elders and Apostles

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[Linda]

Since I have the book out, I thought I would on occasion grace you with some choice quotes from this delightful piece of literature.

I'll start with the back cover copy consisting of two paragraphs. Here they are:

The spiritual conflict is the greatest war raging in the world today. Apostles and elders are right in the center of it. Their work is certainly strategic.

Let it once and for all be made clear. Men that are aspiring to do the work of a leader ought to start working now--day and night.

Jesus said:

Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

and

Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?”  Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."

[lone gone]

Linda, I respect you and your positions.

Having said that, picking out a few verses to counter a man's statements is hardly conclusive of anything.There is also scripture that talks about working day and night, struggling for the sake of the gospel etc.  The burden of belief vs. works is easy, the burden of  sharing that belief can be very difficult.

Please continue to share more of the book. I think we can all discern for ourselves what it means and whether it has merit.

[Linda]

Hey lone,

When I read the McCotter book or listen to GC leaders talk, I find their words very deceptive and prefer to contrast them with the Word. I am not trying to tell you what to think. You are free to think whatever you want. I am merely trying to express what I think. You are free to disagree with me.

Here's another quote for you. It makes me laugh every time I read it. After 83 pages of explaining how an elder is chosen (can everyone say "character") and how the elaborate system of "recognizing" leaders works, comes this little tidbit on page 84:

Even though it is God's ideal to have His leaders recognized and appointed by other leaders, in this one area of qualification there could be a break down, since it relates to other men. There could be genuine apostles raised up and no one to recognize and appoint them. Even as the Scripture says, it is not who men commend, but "whom the Lord commends" 2 Corinthians 10:18 How good it is, however, to have men like Moses to appoint Joshuas. But if there is a break down, God will not be without leaders. He will still move forward. Who appointed Moses? "God commends." However, it is God's ideal to have existing leaders recognize and appoint others.

So, apparently, God can raise you up, but men, because they are mere mortals, may not recognize that you have been raised up. No matter, you are still an apostle so long as you recognize yourself!

You know, now that I think about it, I believe I am an apostle. It's not my fault that no one has recognized me. I think I will start a movement and since I am an apostle and therefore a leader, everyone now has to obey me...

[lone gone]

It's called being a wife and mother.

Ducking and covering.

Keep up the excerpts please.

[puff of purple smoke]

It would be great if we could get that entire book digitized and put online. How many pages long is it? I wonder how monolithic the task would be.

[EverAStudent]

It would be great if we could get that entire book digitized and put online. How many pages long is it? I wonder how monolithic the task would be.

I just happen to have that little volume of error-filled writing in front of me.  It is 102 pages short.  However, it is also copyrighted, 1984, "all rights reserved...no part of this publication may be reproduced or transmitted in any form..."

Rather than reproduce the book in total (and in violation of the copyright act), I would suggest someone applying the fair use clause of the copyright act and quoting short sections of the book side-by-side with critiques and evaluations of it.  In my own paper refuting contemporary apostles and prophets I did not quote from McCotter, but did ensure my arguments covered the improprieties he espoused in the book (see: http://thefaithfulword.org/catspiritualgifts.html#apostles ).

[Linda]

Rather than reproduce the book in total (and in violation of the copyright act), I would suggest someone applying the fair use clause of the copyright act and quoting short sections of the book side-by-side with critiques and evaluations of it.

Lone gone, This is another reason I am choosing to offer my commentary about the quotes I select. I don't know what the copyright laws are regarding out of print books, but do know that in copyrighted material short passages may be quoted for purposes of review or critique. With the upcoming Faithwalkers message on Commitment for Life, people have a right to know what the founder of this movement believed. And posters here have a right to say what they believe is wrong with it.

EAS, Can you find any specific parts where they trash the Church and say basically that they are the first church since NT times to get church right. I can't remember if that was just a sense I got from reading the book or if it was said outright.

[EverAStudent]

Hi Linda,

I was in the process of a lengthy set of quotes from the book about McCotter's beliefs on elders' authority, apostolic authority, and how he viewed the church as having failed since the first century...then the connection reset and all was lost.  Sorry.  Perhaps I will do this again at some later time, but not now.  Next time I will use Word to prep the material for cutting and pasting here.

Long story short, McCotter's attitude of disdain toward the present church and his belief that we must imitate the first century church is rampant in the volume.  Page 28 builds the superstructure of his doctrine that only the elders have God's insight.  

More later.

[Linda]

Hi Linda,
I was in the process of a lengthy set of quotes from the book about McCotter's beliefs on elders' authority, apostolic authority, and how he viewed the church as having failed since the first century...then the connection reset and all was lost.

I hate it when that happens!

[G_Prince]

Even though it is God's ideal to have His leaders recognized and appointed by other leaders, in this one area of qualification there could be a break down, since it relates to other men. There could be genuine apostles raised up and no one to recognize and appoint them. Even as the Scripture says, it is not who men commend, but "whom the Lord commends" 2 Corinthians 10:18 How good it is, however, to have men like Moses to appoint Joshuas. But if there is a break down, God will not be without leaders. He will still move forward. Who appointed Moses? "God commends." However, it is God's ideal to have existing leaders recognize and appoint others.

More proof that with enough coaxing, the Bible can say anything.  :shock:

[Linda]

Gcx now has M2Z up for all to read. The first man (an elder) to be excommunicated was Bill Taylor. He spoke at a pastor's conference and violated the cardinal doctrine of unity (quoted above) by suggesting that the pursuit of unity could become invalid if it exceeded the pursuit of truth. Here is what M2Z says about this incident.

During this conference Bill addressed the subject of truth and unity, saying that while unity is important, Scripture also speaks of the importance of truth. Bill stated further that the point can be reached where the pursuit of unity exceeds the pursuit of truth and thus becomes an invalid unity

This is from Part Two: Times of Trouble if you want to read about how it happened. There are also many other case histories in this section.

In the spring of 2005, we contacted Larry Pile when we couldn't get satisfactory answers to our questions and learned of Wellspring through googling. Larry sent us M2Z. At this time, we were in the midst of talking with elders. We brought the book with and showed it to two ECC elders to "get their side" of the events in the book.

Amazingly enough, neither elder would even look at the book. They said that it was only one side of the story. Well, duh, that's why we brought the book to them, to get the other side! As we learned, the other side is that they don't even look at criticism because that would be to judge another's "heart". When we mentioned that there was a 13 page error statement written by GC in the book, one pastor did look at the statement. I don't think he'd ever seen it before.

Anyway, it's great that this is all available online. I pray that it helps people, starting with current GC leaders.

[puff of purple smoke]

Leadership: Elders And Apostles is now available online: http://gcxweb.org/Books/Leadership/

[Linda]

You found it! Yay!

Unity is the cardinal doctrine. Autonomy was a natural function. Yes it would be better, no doubt far better, to have a hierarchy or typical organization, etc. run with love, than to be a disunited people of God divided each into his nice own little autonomous church. However, the most united you can possibly be without setting up something that is foreign to the New Testament has got to be the best and most New Testament plan of action. The Lord Jesus’ last prayer, all the goals of God, and the fullest purpose for your life will never be experienced without the greatest amount of unity. It is for that reason that New Testament plurality and autonomy should be practiced. Rightly understood it fosters unity.

May God give us a driving spirit of unity, a spirit that consistently burns brighter and hotter than all jealousy, envy and selfish ambition put together! There must be unity at all cost. When believers divide over so-called doctrine, they are always trampling under foot the cardinal doctrine — UNITY. The scripture itself gives a list of the only truths we should ever divide over in Ephesians 4:1-6 (the only addition would involve a person that is under church discipline). We should always have a fervent love, unity and respect for every Christian, though we may not labor with every Christian. We must always realize, all believers that are not with us, if they are not against us, are always on our side. Jesus said so (Luke 9:50)! So let us promote plural autonomous leadership in and for the spirit of unity. It is the New Testament way.

This is to me the heart of their error.

[EverAStudent]

Judging a book by its cover......

Notice that the book has military-style awards dressing its cover, implying that the leadership described in this book is only for the elite leadership, the heavily decorated generals amongst us.  In GCx's view, and sadly, in the view of many Christians, "leadership" is the right and reward of command over the less-able followers. 

Biblical leadership is NOT a command structure at all!  It is a service structure, and more, it is a service structure of volunteers serving volunteers.  In contradiction to the Bible, GCx has always viewed leadership as command and control over conscripts. 

Yes, sometimes a book can be judged by its cover.

[EverAStudent]

Judging a people's theology by the teachings of its leaders.

Shame on every GCI leader, National Elder, and pastor who did not rebuke Jim McCotter and Dennis Clark for having written and taught the outrageous biblical errors in this book!

Shame on every GCI leader, National Elder, and pastor who both taught and disbtributed this book to their own congregations!

That every leader in GCI in 1984 supported this book, and that most of the GCI leadership have continued on as teachers and leaders in the Great Commission Association of Churches today is both a shame and a fearful thing for the future of this denomination. 

Is it improper to have expected the removal of any pastor who embraced and actually taught the magnitude of errors found in this book?  Those who believed and taught the errors of this book beg the question as to their fitness and ability to be teachers of God's Word.

[lone gone]

We should not be afraid of this New Testament teaching because some have abused this area. Let’s set a loving New Testament example. Also, let us not reject this truth by being legalistic. In enormous cities like Los Angeles, New York, London, etc. there are cities within the city. Where geography is greater than practical unity, there would of course be need for another church and elders. The dynamics and spirit in the New Testament however is to be as united as possible not as divided as possible. Let us not feel frustrated because of thinking other leaders will never unite in a city. Our purpose here was for our own instruction, for our own growth, not to campaign in a vain activity to unite all other leaders. If such a thing would ever happen with others, however, praise the Lord. Nonetheless, we will multiply and grow the maximum if we follow such principles ourselves. Let us respect and love all. Let us not blow out anyone’s candle but light our own until the world is ablaze with the spiritual forest fire.

Lest anyone start to over-emphasize one subsection of the book I'll add this section with it for balance and illumination of what is meant by the writer. Emphasis is mine.

The stated purpose of Jim and Dennis is the same as the Roman Catholic Church as well as many other denominations and local assemblies. it is quite simply a call to unity of purpose.... after the doctrines have been agreed on and established. If the doctrines are not agreed upon and settled, then you have another matter.

It seems that GC has some work to do to get their doctrines settled before their desired "unity" can be achieved. Calling for unity ahead of sound teaching is getting the cart in front of the horse. It amounts to the same thing as a Bible class agreeing to study the Bible to determine the truth, but not being able to agree on what truth is being determined.

It's not a defense of Jim and Dennis,  but it is a call to be wary of a over reacting in a self righteous manner by magnifying a speck in somone else's eye and ignoring the fact that the same speck in commonplace in everyone's eyes.

[EverAStudent]

The stated purpose of Jim and Dennis is the same as the Roman Catholic Church as well as many other denominations and local assemblies. it is quite simply a call to unity of purpose.... after the doctrines have been agreed on and established. If the doctrines are not agreed upon and settled, then you have another matter.

I would question this on two levels. 

1) Biblical unity is not around a unity of "purpose" at all.  Biblical unity is around Christ and the Holy Spirit of peace.  Same mindedness is built around common doctrine.  So our unity is in and around God based on common and sound doctrine.  Unity of purpose is what a "project" is all about, not a church.

2) The majority of the book is not about unity, either thematically or topically.  Unity, like the book, is a justification for titling some leaders as "apostles" so as to have a hierarchical (yes, that word is emphasized in the book) leadership scheme where the apostles are at the top of the multi-church command and control structure.  McCotter goes on to state that as the head of the cross-church command and control structure, the churches should tithe to the apostles.    

The book is a theological mishmash of disjointed logic, borrowed bankrupt theological concepts, and misstatements of Scripture.  Don't only throw out this book on the grounds of its improper view of unity, throw it out because it is utterly unsound in so much of its doctrines.

[nolongergci]

That every leader in GCI in 1984 supported this book, and that most of the GCI leadership have continued on as teachers and leaders in the Great Commission Association of Churches today is both a shame and a fearful thing for the future of this denomination. 

Not every leader supported this book. Some ended up leaving (or being forced out) over this very issue.

[Linda]

Lest anyone start to over-emphasize one subsection of the book I'll add this section with it for balance and illumination of what is meant by the writer.

I didn't mean to suggest that the "unity" theme was the only thing wrong with the book. So, please, don't get bogged down in the unity part, read the whole thing.

What I was trying to suggest is that the concept of unity that McCotter/Clark present does not allow for Christians to question and correct bad teaching (of which GC has plenty). So, books like this get printed and distributed. Teaching like this goes on when the prime concern is unity.

The book is a theological mishmash of disjointed logic, borrowed bankrupt theological concepts, and misstatements of Scripture.  Don't only throw out this book on the grounds of its improper view of unity, throw it out because it is utterly unsound in so much of its doctrines.

Amen!

[Linda]

Not every leader supported this book. Some ended up leaving (or being forced out) over this very issue.

Are you free to give more details about this?