Leaving

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

You may read and post, but some features are restricted to registered members. Please consider registering to gain full access! Registration is free and only takes a few moments to complete.

[trthskr]

Thanks exshep...but it actually feels quite beautiful.  Freedom in Christ is greater than safety in rules and regulations.  I feel free!  I love it!  Thanks to everyone for their prayers.

[exshep]

Thanks exshep...but it actually feels quite beautiful.  Freedom in Christ is greater than safety in rules and regulations.  I feel free!  I love it!  Thanks to everyone for their prayers.

I believe every word of it.  Truer words could not be spoken.  I  said a few months after leaving my group [I lost a friend to GC],  that  sure feels nice to breath the fresh air.

[trthskr]

Sorry I...took everything down..  I feel its best to sort things out first.  Proverbs 10:19...

After a while I will be posting my bio though.  Thanks everyone, you have been awesome!

[Linda]

So everyone doesn't have to look it up.

When words are many, sin is not absent, but he who holds his tongue is wise. Proverbs 10:19

Sorry, but I have to ask. Did someone ask you to remove everything, or suggest you might want to?

[trthskr]

No, Linda, but thank you for your concern.  I just realized through talking with people that it really was God who revealed this all to me, so if someone saw all of that - which some was written in anger - that it would just upset them and not do any good.  If I had seen some of this stuff before it was time, I would just get upset...just until I get my thoughts sorted out so I can communicate things more clearly.  Anyways, I'll still be around.  I promise.

trthskr

[Linda]

Great. Thanks for answering.

[aconcernedmom]

My son was in GCM for two and one half years.  He has been out of it for two years.  Before he left for college he had a deep faith.  Now, he wants nothing to do with organized religion.   I have also noticed his personality is starting to come back but not the confidence he used to have.  How long does it take to recover from GCM?  Any advice from former members would be greatly appreciated.  My heart goes out to all of you.

[ustawannabee]

It can take a long time! I left more than 10 years ago and am now in a good church, after a time of no church and then a couple of different good churches, yet I still "freaked" a little a few months ago when my small group leader mentioned that we would be doing communion in small group sometimes "like the first century church did". I did adk him how much we planned to go to "first century" church style. He wisely, I think, asked me what my concern was, and I thumbnail sketched about past experiences, no church name given, and he assured me that he had NO interest in telling me who to live with  but I as still leery!
I still have trouble wanting to step up to a greater levelof involvement even though I really think God would have me do that. part of that is work schedule too though.

[EverAStudent]

I am just finishing up a study on church worship.  It became clear to me that it is a mistake to think that you can place your authority for "doing church" (creating a church model) by observing what the early church did.  They took their authority from what Jesus told them to do; they did not take their authority from their own practices.

In other words, Jesus told them to have communion, pray, meet together, baptize, evangelize, and teach the Word to others so as to make them mature teachers.  This is the authority behind church practices.  So we do not really want to do church "the way the 1st century church did it" but the way Jesus told them to do church.  Paul expanded on this by adding other things that Jesus told him to impose on the church (e.g. qualify pastors, qualify deacons, restrict oversight to males, etc.).  

As a consequence, we do not need to meet at the temple as the Jerusalem church did.  We can decide to meet in homes (like the Roman, Ephesian, and Jerusalem saints sometimes did) because Jesus did not dictate a location for worship but actually told the woman at the well that authority would be given to worship anywhere.  But we also have the freedom to meet as one big city church if we desire.  Always ask where the authority came from for a given practice, it is not good enough to say, "Well, the early church did it..."

It does not bother me so much if someone says they want to establish a biblical model for doing church, if they mean they want to do the things Jesus and Paul told them to do.  But it does bother me if they want to use the Jerusalem church or the Corinthian church as THE model.  They misunderstand how to apply the story of Acts, at least in part.
Worse, they misunderstand that the role of apostle is no longer available.

In no case is there warrant for the iron control over, and emotional and spiritual manipulation of, the individual that GCI has practiced for the better part of 4 decades.

[lone gone]

[quote="EverAStudent"]I am just finishing up a study on church worship.  It became clear to me that it is a mistake to think that you can place your authority for "doing church" (creating a church model) by observing what the early church did.  They took their authority from what Jesus told them to do; they did not take their authority from their own practices.
In other words, Jesus told them to have communion, pray, meet together, baptize, evangelize, and teach the Word to others so as to make them mature teachers.  This is the authority behind church practices.  So we do not really want to do church "the way the 1st century church did it" but the way Jesus told them to do church.  Paul expanded on this by adding other things that Jesus told him to impose on the church (e.g. qualify pastors, qualify deacons, restrict oversight to males, etc.).  
As a consequence, we do not need to meet at the temple as the Jerusalem church did.  We can decide to meet in homes (like the Roman, Ephesian, and Jerusalem saints sometimes did) because Jesus did not dictate a location for worship but actually told the woman at the well that authority would be given to worship anywhere.  But we also have the freedom to meet as one big city church if we desire.  Always ask where the authority came from for a given practice, it is not good enough to say, "Well, the early church did it..."
It does not bother me so much if someone says they want to establish a biblical model for doing church, if they mean they want to do the things Jesus and Paul told them to do.  But it does bother me if they want to use the Jerusalem church or the Corinthian church as THE model.  They misunderstand how to apply the story of Acts, at least in part.
Worse, they misunderstand that the role of apostle is no longer available.
[/quote]

I fail to see any distinction between what the first century church did or what Jesus taught. They could be one and the same. Claiming God's authority, the Apostles authority, or authentic practices of the early church are all the same. God has given us spiritual freedom to practice what we desire as long as it is not against the "law of Love". We can worship in any language, with any ceremony or lack thereof, with or without music , or any other way that honors God.

Sadly, we humans manage to corrupt EVERYTHING.... including the practices God has  approved of. When we apply our own motives to God's ways.... they become corrupt. If in some form of spiritual pride we boast that we are following God's ways then we have corrupted God's ways. If we seek to influence other's by proudly boasting of our practices, we are appealing to the insecurity that inhabits man.

I cannot judge a man's heart, and I can only imperfectly judge his actions.
Being quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger is very difficult. Being slow to judge is equally difficult.

I feel it is better to quietly go about one's business and not brag,advertise, market, or  appeal to anyone to come to our church based on it's practices.

[EverAStudent]

I fail to see any distinction between what the first century church did or what Jesus taught. They could be one and the same. Claiming God's authority, the Apostles authority, or authentic practices of the early church are all the same.

Excellent observation!  For example, we could participate in communion (breaking of bread) because we read that the Jerusalem church did.  But Paul states that the reason the church (even the one in Jersusalem) held communion is because Jesus told them to.  So OUR authority to conduct communion services is not really from reading that the Jerusalem church did it, but by reading that this is a service that Jesus commanded us to do.

Similarly, we baptize not because we saw the early church do it in Acts, but because we read that Jesus commanded it.  

We must ask, why did the Jerusalem saints do what they did.  Were they making it up (which means we are not obligated to do what they made up), or were they doing it because Jesus commanded all churches to do it.  We can say the same of the church in Corinth.  We do not have to do what that church did, except where Paul writes and says, "Do what I command you to do because my commands are the commands that come from Jesus."

Personally, I found all this freeing.  I no longer feel obligated to be a 1st century Christian, but a Christian in the 21st century.  Just because the 1st century church had apostles does not mean that was normative for church governance.  Jesus never commanded, "Commission your own new apostles," so I don't.  I do not feel obligated to go preach in synagogues as Paul and his companions exemplified in so very many cities, because that strategy was not commanded by Jesus to be normative for all churches.  It is very freeing to view Christ as the head of the church.

Thanks for pointing out your discomfort with my original comments.