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Author Topic: Let no one look down on your youthfulness,or take advantage of your youtfulness!  (Read 7704 times)
pvitartas
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« on: July 21, 2013, 12:37:24 pm »

I am often reminded, after all these years, of the verse from scripture that was drummed into our heads over and over again as we sang it again and again...

"Let no one look down on your youthfulness."

It occurs to me - that those of us who are recovering - we should add a footnote, "or take advantage of your youthfulness."

I'll never forget a 21 year old elder (ELDER???) stating in a sermon, "you should look upon the elders as your parents..."  I think that was the fork in the road that finally got me thinking - this is messed up.

It seems to me that Solid Rock (late 70's) was kind of like Paul's ship journey to Rome - upon entering the storm, some on board wanted to throw someone overboard to placate the gods.  Paul said no.  The kid leaders at Solid Rock threw people overboard - hardly what Paul would do!

Thank God I woke up and returned to college, after being encouraged to drop out.  I lost two years of school at OSU because of these youthful "leaders." 
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GodisFaithful
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2014, 11:48:25 am »

pvitartas,

Are you still out there? 

That song that we used to sing over and over and over, Let no one look down on your youthfulness, but rather in speech, conduct, love, faith, and purity, Show yourself an example to those who belie-e-e-eve. 

And now, to look at that verse, after being out of the "movement" for 18 years (and I was in it 18 years), I have to say that when I examine some of the history of the GC churches and see the clear pattern of deception (lying, hiding the truth) that was justified by the leadership, the leadership talking behind people's backs and evaluating nit-picky things about their lives rather than realizing that the Christian life is a life long learning proposition and it is the Holy Spirit who convicts and changes and guides, throwing the bums out if they disagreed or did not exhibit loyalty to them (even if they claimed loyalty to Christ), wanting people to have faith and trust in them versus trusting the Holy Spirit, I am kind of appalled that we innocently sang this beautiful verse of Scripture while it was being so conveniently twisted. I don't think it was applied in the way that the Apostle Paul was conveying this lofty teaching to Timothy.  But we had the Apostle McCotter leading the charge, who was just a tad different than the Apostle Paul.  And the apostle teaching (modern day apostles) has never been rescinded and McCotter is still held up as a great man who started the GC movement. (Unless they are in the mood to hide it and deceive people that he never existed, but we were there, we saw it with our own eyes.)  To be fair, some of the early leaders got saved from hearing McCotter or some of his followers preaching the gospel, and perhaps they are so grateful for that, they will not back away from the false teaching. 

I have to say that the word of God is becoming much more fresh and interesting to me, now that I am free of the manipulation and twisting.

I liked your comment about how GC leaders were like the heathen with Paul who wanted to placate the gods by throwing someone overboard.  I am glad we can laugh about it now, but it sure wasn't funny then, especially if you had been around for a long time and really trusted these fellows and thought they were Godly.  Interesting that Paul said no, don't throw anybody overboard.  He saw the value in each human being, a precious person for whom Christ died.  The venerated Apostle Jim McCotter and others who have followed him have made such a mockery of what church discipline is all about.  I have seen it done once in my church, in a very methodical and loving way, and the person was restored to fellowship.  It was truly amazing.  No one stopped loving that person. 

On a side note to this matter, when I have read so many ex GCers talk about being shunned after they left their church, at first the term "shunned" really stunned me.  I had read extensively about the Amish, anything I could get my hands on, after we witnessed some very devout Amish in southern MN and I was fascinated by their lifestyle. I think of the Amish when I think of shunning.  How very harsh and misguided this practice is!  To me, puts GC in the category of a sect, just that alone, aside from all the other cultish controlling of people's lives that they sneakily do after people have put down roots and found wonderful friendships.  And don't get me started on the leaders saying that they have the same kind of authority over their people today as Moses did.  Just don't get me started!  When will they decide to retract that teaching?Huh

Thanks for sharing, if you are still out there.
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Reasonable
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« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2014, 03:25:47 pm »

The unfortunate behaviors in leadership that you witnessed are common among *young* elders, and older ones who were raised to elder at a young age.

If you have children and you put the oldest one in charge for the first time, do you ever see that one abuse siblings with this new authority and wield it overbearingly?

If you put a young employee without much experience ahead of others, do workplaces ever develop problems?

God's wisdom about human behavior is revealed and discernable, even to the Godless in the world, and yet we seem to have missed what is at the core of these kinds of leadership problems.  And as most of you probably know, it is not unique at GC.  Happens at some of the oldest mainline denominations as well.  GCx is not unique in this.

If we want to address this problem, then we need to address the problem of qualification of elders.  The Timothy verse about youth is too-often mis-applied.  Timothy at the time was probably over the age of 30, and 40 was not middle-aged in that day.  Nonetheless, Timothy was appointed by Paul as his surrogate and thus spoke with Paul's authority, specifically sent.  This whole passage of scripture, I believe, was in no way to make an example of commonly anointing young elders.  It was a historical passage, not one of a command to the Church for the ages.

So what you have experienced on this thread is simply a young man who got too big for his britches, and his misplacement as an elder with a misinterpretation of his authority that he thinks extends to him the power to be able to "lovingly" say "sit down and shut up" to whomever he pleases whenever he pleases sets the stage for a very ugly environment.
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pvitartas
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2018, 03:42:43 am »

Godisfaithful - yes, I'm still here!

Reasonable - if you mean young MEN, not young MAN, then I agree with you.  Three "elders" were 21 or younger when appointed.
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