Letter from a GCM staffer

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[exshep]

Tim,

Thanks for your insights and apologies. One of the blogs made comment about the judgement whether one is in GC or not. I must say I have had mixed reviews with 1991 Apology. The fact that you had a dickens of a time trying to get a copy does not bode well. I received an unsolicted copy from Linworth with a post-it “______ wanted you to see this”. I would have thought I could dialog with the friend I had in GC. The response I got was the caged, “Unless you repent [join GC] and stop slandering the brethren, I cannot talk to you” and she hung up. It was a poor effort at damage control.

Of course I have had positive conversations viz the Apology. In the long term, it has produced some good results. The judgementalism even between GC churches is curious. To be honest, I wonder the incident is indicative of GC or unique to that person. I had received a third hand comment that “Grace [Community Church, Plano, TX] is not a GC church, is dangerous, and I should be fearful of my salvation”. I ran the incident past the pastor, who started out during the Blitz years. He was quite honestly dumbfounded. I look at him, “Well, it makes feel good we are on the same page.” There was an uneasiness when I attended a service at Linworth. Considering I was in Cult Awareness Network, spoke out against shepherding groups, and had an acrimonious disagreement with an apparently former member; that would certainly explain the anxiety.

[puff of purple smoke]

There are others here who had a hard time getting ahold of the statement, and I do believe certain elders have attempted to clear their congregation’s minds of the statement. However, I think even more people ended up in the kind of situation I was in: a simple lack of knowledge that an error statement/seedy past existed at all. I’m fairly sure I could have gotten a copy of the statement, if I had asked, IF I had known it existed. And if I had known it existed, I would have been much more aware of what I came to believe was going on in my specific GC church: they were living life like the error statement had not occurred. It did not benefit them in any way for people to know it existed, because the pastors were from old school GC, wanted to live out the things taught to them during the early years, and for those reasons didn’t believe the error statement should be widely known. That is the only conclusion I can reach, given my experiences. Given the experiences of many others, I am inclined to believe this type of situation is more prevalent across the board than some current GCers would like to admit.

[Tim Courtois]

Just to clarify and correct any confusion:



I did NOT have any difficulty obtaining the apology paper, and did not have to go through any outside venues to get it. It was GIVEN TO ME by the HQ when I was at Staff Training for my first internship with GCM when I was a sophomore in college - 1999.



I understand that others have had the statement hidden from them, so I’m not disputing that at all. I’ve just noticed that a couple people have gotten the impression that I had a hard time getting it, which isn’t accurate.



Angry, hope to hear from you again… I’ve been thinking of you & still feeling shocked by your last post (see my comment to you above).

[maranatha]

~~~

[Huldah]

I just wanted to add that I, too, obtained the weaknesses statement direct from GCA without any problems. I found an email address on their website a couple of years ago, and sent them a message that briefly said it would mean a lot to me to be able to read "the apology" (I didn't know its actual name). The staffer who sent the reply actually thanked me for "giving us a chance to find peace with you". She even gave me a number to call if I wished to discuss it further. I haven't felt led to follow that up, but I have to mention it, in a spirit of giving credit where credit is due.

[Linda]

Just curious, when did you ask for a copy, what year?

In February of 2005, we asked someone who currently sits on the board of GCC for a copy of the statement and he acted bewildered, said he remembered a paper that was more a statement of "clarification" than apology. He offered to find us a copy and never got back to us.

Larry Pile sent us a copy two weeks later.

Eventually, the statement was put up on gcmwarning and after showing up on gcmwarning, it materialized on the GCC web page.  

[puff of purple smoke]

Eventually, the statement was put up on gcmwarning and after showing up on gcmwarning, it materialized on the GCC web page.

They had to change strategies. From "pretend it doesn't exist" to "pretend it was no big deal."

[AgathaL'Orange]

We got a copy in 2001 ish.

[Linda]

We got a copy in 2001 ish.

Aggie,

How did you happen to get your copy, just curious. Had you heard about its existence and asked for it, or was it part of some teaching at your church?

I thought that maybe GCLI guys had heard of it, but the first pastor we asked acted like he didn't know what we were talking about.

I suppose he could have known about it and been acting when he acted like he had never heard of it!! The second pastor knew of it, but acted bewildered. He definitely deceived us because he knew full well what it was and had signed off on it according to the document.

You know, one of the hardest things for me is that I believed these leaders were being up front with us. We spent an incredible amount of time talking things through with the leadership and I now realize that we were purposefully misled. I trusted them, and they took advantage of that. What a waste of time for us to be asking sincere questions FOR MONTHS and getting vague and misleading answers.

The lesson I'm learning is "Trust, but verify" (Thank you Ronald Reagan!)

[puff of purple smoke]

I got mine without much trouble - sort of - I had to know what it was and ask for it from national leadership. Problem was, it took years of being in the movement, and a lot of research, before I ever learned that such a statement of error existed. Nobody that I knew, including small group leaders and pastors in training, knew anything about the statement when I first got ahold of it. Nobody had bothered to tell them.

[Huldah]

Just curious, when did you ask for a copy, what year?

Were you asking me? This was in May, 2006.

And by the way, I wasn't trying to invalidate or challenge anyone else's experiences. I posted this this because I feel morally obligated to be just as honest about the positive things I've experienced with GCx as the negative things.

[Linda]

Huldah,

I was just curious as to when you asked because I think that sometime after the statement went up on this site, GC was more than willing to offer it to people and thank them for pursuing it with them.

We learned of the statement through a Google search in 2004 where it was mentioned in passing on a cult web site. We put that info on the back burner until the Fanning the Flame where one pastor told us we were his bride and if we ever left the local GC church it was the same as divorcing a spouse.

We met immediately with Spencer Bernard and asked him about that talk. He said words to the effect that it "didn't sit well" with him either. We asked Spencer about the error statement and as far as we could tell, he was unaware of it. I choose to believe he was telling us the truth.

Two weeks later, we had lunch with Spencer and Brent Knox and we asked Brent about the error statement. He said he had a vague recollection of a paper that was more a statement of "clarification" than apology and that he would get us a copy. He never did, and that he simply "forgot" is a little hard to believe since this was obviously a BIG deal to us by then.

On a whim and wanting to get both sides of the story, a few days after this lunch meeting, I e-mailed Larry Pile. He was on a leave at the time, but came back in early March and we were told he would be happy to talk. Terry phoned him and he was extremely helpful. He sent us Marching to Zion which contains the statement.

What bothers me about this is that the statement says it was ratified by the pastors and leaders in July 1991, and that any questions or concerns about the statement should be directed at our local GC pastor or Dave B. Since we had no idea who Dave B. was, it seemed obvious to go to our local pastors. So, to ask a pastor who was a pastor when the statement was ratified and for him to not really recall it and say, "It seems like there was something, but it was more a statement of clarification than apology" is rather unsettling. We were honestly trying to pursue things through the chain of command.

It didn't work in part because we were given misinformation and half-truths.

One good thing that comes from all of this is that the statement is available for all to see. It didn't used to be that way.

[EverAStudent]

We left our GCI assembly in 1984, I think, just as the "invasion" was being hyped.  We were immediately "unofficialy" shunned.  Many of my wife's sisters and brother were still in it, and though they rarely deigned to talk with us, we did get bits and pieces of info just because we were family.

In 1985 one of our elders (the two elders were "equal," but the older one was decidedly far more than equal) had a personal conflict with Jim McCotter.  Jim had ordered him and his family to Washington, and he did not want to go.  As a result, he unilaterally announced the church was breaking ties with GCI.  He assumed that everyone would go with him and simply continue the church.  The other elder was caught off guard and sided with McCotter.  

Within weeks the church split in two.  The group that went with the "more than equal" elder all abandoned him for a traditional church within weeks when they began to see him without their GCI blinders on.  Jim McCotter forced the other elder to "step down" and replaced him with several of his own hand-picked men who moved into town virtually overnight with an entire squad of support families.  Only one family (GCI die-hards) from the original church stayed on after that.  Our church actually made it into The Cause: The Joy of Justice issue as one of the rebellious churches that "repented" and was restored!!!?????

The first group that split off and went with the "more than equal" elder, but who subsequently abandoned him, kept in close association with each other, still shunning us, but close to each other.  When the 1991 apology came out, my wife and I caught snatches about it by overhearing side conversations at a family reunion.  My wife finally confronted one of her sisters and found out that all of them had been given copies, except us, because we had left before the split (we had divorced the church, remember?).  My wife insisted on seeing a copy, so one day, one of her family members left a copy in our door jam.  

Apparently, the "more than equal" elder was only apologizing to those who had been most loyal to him personally, and frankly cared little for all the rest whom he had hurt.  The other elder left GCI and went into missions work.

What I found most odd about the entire eipisode is that even after leaving GCI themselves, they continued to shun my wife and I, and withheld the apology paper from us, all because we had left earlier than they.  They still judge us by GCI standards.  

My only real response to all that is:  Praise the Lord that they left, regardless of when or the circumstances!!!!!  Most of them have moved on to be very productive members of traditional churches.  Praise the Lord!

[AgathaL'Orange]

What I found most odd about the entire eipisode is that even after leaving GCI themselves, they continued to shun my wife and I, and withheld the apology paper from us, all because we had left earlier than they. They still judge us by GCI standards.

Do they still shun you today?  That is sad that GC broke up families!

[EverAStudent]

Do they still shun you today? That is sad that GC broke up families!

Those who are not related to us continue to avoid us entirely these 30 years later.  2 of my wife's sisters who came out of that church speak to her fairly freely now.  Her brother, sometimes, though his wife (who loved GCI) practically drips venom when she sees us, and no, she avoids talking to us as much as possible.  The family largely see me as the "bad guy" for "dragging" their sister away from GCI--they do not accept that she was as anxious to escape GCI as was I, moved as we believe we were by God's Holy Spirit as we came to understand the errors of their doctrines.

My wife has paid a terrible personal price for her stand on the Word.  Yet, I doubt she would undo her decision in this regard, for she has grown in her understanding of God through the experience.

[AgathaL'Orange]

I'm sorry to hear that, I hope there can be a peaceful resolution at some point for your family!

[Linda]

I agree. That is so sad about your extended family.

I pulled out Marching to Zion yesterday and read a little bit. I think I read about the situation you mentioned with the "more than equal" elder. (Although there were probably lots of similar things happening at many churches).

Something that struck me was that for all the talk about the churches being autonomous, the national leaders were quick to step in and do what they wanted as soon as they didn't like something.

Also, I loved the phrase "more than equal". I have a tape from a pastor's conference that I ordered right before we decided to leave. In it the speaker mentions that "all elders are equal, but some are more equal". For all the talk about not having a senior pastor, they do. He's the "more than equal" pastor.

I also liked your post on the thread "Now you have seen testimony of GC abuses..." Excellent questions. I didn't want to post a comment there and bump your questions out of the limelight because they were so good.

Finally, since we were talking about the Error Statement in this thread, I did want to just remind everyone of what they apologized for.

1. Improper response to criticism
2. An elitist attitude
3. Failing to distinguish between a command, a principle, and a preference
4. Authoritarian leadership
5. Direction, management, and planning
6. Church Discipline
7. Lack of emphasis on formal education
8. A belief that every man should become an elder

Those 8 points fell under the two categories of "Prideful Attitude" and "Misapplication and Misinterpretation of Scripture."

Interestingly enough, we have a letter of rebuke from a pastor written about Terry's blog post where Terry mentioned the word "pride". The leader said this was the first time he had ever heard that word used against GC! Excuse me, he apologized for a prideful attitude in 1991.

Guess he forgot.

[askingquestionsaboutGCI]

I'd like to take a look at the "Marching to Zion" book.  Anyone know how I can get my hands on a copy?

[MidnightRider]

I'd like to take a look at the "Marching to Zion" book.  Anyone know how I can get my hands on a copy?

It is an informative book.

You have to buy a copy from Larry Pile. I understand he is not a regular computer-user, and I do not have his permission to post his contact info here. Is there someone who can get in touch with him?

[exshep]

The 1991 Apology is slid over.  I have a friend who   left the Columbus church will not discuss it. That was then, this is now.