Mark Bowen's Disciplinary Action

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[Faith]

Hi All,

Is anyone able to tell if Mark Bowen is merely stepping down as chair of the board and not stepping down from the board entirely? Based on the report it sounds like Bowen is only stepping down as chair from the board which is incredibly troubling. At the very least, based on everything that has happened I believe Bowen should be removed from the BOT entirely and I question his ability to continue pastoring.

Can anyone confirm if Bowen & Brent are stepping down from the EMT? I heard this was a possibility but it is not mentioned in the report.

[OneOfMany]

Faith I too noticed that it was said he stepped down as chair, not as a board member. I too find that troublesome.

Moreover someone who helps to cover up inappropriate behavior should not be in the pulpit. Mark Bowen does not meet the character requirements to be a pastor. Neither do several other of the pastors.

I believe the reason he and Brent Knox have been given a pass is that the entire culture of the church lacks proper healthy boundaries. Many pastors/wives have shared from the stage sexual acts they have committed in sin. Members are encouraged to be transparent by sharing sexual acts they perform with their spouse. I believe that the BOT members themselves by participating in a group that lacks sexual healthy boundaries also then lacks a sense of right and wrong in general when it comes to certain types of moral behavior. They too have been taught that the leadership knows what is best for them and is in a spiritually superior place.

So how does a church full of people that lack a basic sense of right and wrong when it comes to boundaries move forward to become healthy?

[Phoenix]

So how does a church full of people that lack a basic sense of right and wrong when it comes to boundaries move forward to become healthy?

Please stop with such sweeping statements, exaggerations and conspiratorial questions.  I do not think they forward the conversation or topic.

[OneOfMany]

So how does a church full of people that lack a basic sense of right and wrong when it comes to boundaries move forward to become healthy?

Please stop with such sweeping statements, exaggerations and conspiratorial questions.  I do not think they forward the conversation or topic.

Phoenix the topic/question does need to be addressed. A fundamental lack of personal boundaries is systemic throughout the church. It is an underlying problem that has led to many of the problems that have happened and are happening.

[Rebel in a Good Way]

To push back a little bit, if/when leadership demonstrates and models inappropriate behavior, it does become embedded in to the fabric and culture of the church.  If members don't overshare themselves, they are desensitized somewhat to that kind of talk.  Or at least found it tolerable enough to stay around.  Granted, some may have always bristled about inappropriate sexual disclosures, so this will be less shocking for them.  But for many, their judgment/discernment is off and needs to be corrected.  It can happen very quickly for some, more slowly for others. This incident alone will get some people back on the right track.  But others, like Brent Knox (based on his sermon yesterday) will be resistant and try to deny that it is a serious or widespread problem.  

That being said, I have not been a part of a church with satellite locations, so I'm not sure of the dynamics there.  But with Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill campuses, it seeped everywhere to some extent.  So, I think a cautious approach is best (not to assume all is well at all locations)

The verse about a little bit of yeast is true.  I'm sure it's hard when people say things like this, but my suggestion is to not get defensive.  I think God has humbled ECC and its members, and they can surrender and let him work, or they can resist and defend and protect.  Of the thousands of pages I have read about spiritual abuse, it takes a huge correction to get the church healthy again.  And what the BOT released definitely indicates a spiritually abusive environment (where pastors have too much control and little accountability).

Aside from extensive study, my words are also based on personal experience, very similar to what is happening at ECC.  My husband and I could not stay after abuse was exposed in our church, even though we tried.  There was too much denial.  When our church showed up in the newspaper, we were like..."yep, we're glad others can learn from this," but many church members were upset "why are they picking on us?  Leave us alone!  It was just the one bad pastor."  That church is still not what I would consider healthy; within the past year they placed a registered sex offender to lead a small group.  BAD move when abuse has been an issue in your church and some of your same leadership that failed to protect the flock in the past is still in positions of authority.

And for that reason I believe Mark Bowen should also be relieved of his ordination.  Not to mention he has committed his own kinds of spiritual abuse (and put in writing that he yelled at a younger pastor.  But then apologized, so he is off the hook).  

So how does a church full of people that lack a basic sense of right and wrong when it comes to boundaries move forward to become healthy?

Please stop with such sweeping statements, exaggerations and conspiratorial questions.  I do not think they forward the conversation or topic.

[Mango]

Please stop with such sweeping statements, exaggerations and conspiratorial questions.  I do not think they forward the conversation or topic.

Yes. This!

[Wrestling]

Please stop with such sweeping statements, exaggerations and conspiratorial questions.  I do not think they forward the conversation or topic.

Yes. This!

I don’t think you’ve ask any conspiratorial questions, but when it comes to sweeping statements & exaggerations, same to you, Mango:

Posts from Mango:

“Impressive thread. I feel God's love moving in this group.”

“This thread and FeministRebel's FB post are quite illustrative of her world-view as well as the views of those who are supporting her and are frequent posters on this forum. Wow. Evolution, Global Warming, Feminism, I mean who doesn't want their church focused on these Biblical essentials.”

“Or to put it another way, those who fixate on the past and spend years posting on boards like this, don't seem too happy.”

[Phoenix]

So how does a church full of people that lack a basic sense of right and wrong when it comes to boundaries move forward to become healthy?

Please stop with such sweeping statements, exaggerations and conspiratorial questions.  I do not think they forward the conversation or topic.

Phoenix the topic/question does need to be addressed. A fundamental lack of personal boundaries is systemic throughout the church. It is an underlying problem that has led to many of the problems that have happened and are happening.

This is rubbish, you sit from afar and judge.  

You make it seem as though sex is often discussed by pastors other than MD and that is just not true.  Further, you make it seem as if it is likely small groups would have no problem problem explaining in detail their sexual sin.  How dare you.

The veil began lifting on my eyes as far back as 2006 and they are finally completely clear so I see the problem, still I find your comments to be baseless, offensive and presumptuous.

There are people that are rightly angry and desperate to be a part of change within the Bloomington location.  They are not all a bunch of robots, they are people that are filled with the Holy Spirt.  A person could even interpret your post as discounting the power of the Holy Spirt.

[OneOfMany]

So how does a church full of people that lack a basic sense of right and wrong when it comes to boundaries move forward to become healthy?

Please stop with such sweeping statements, exaggerations and conspiratorial questions.  I do not think they forward the conversation or topic.

Phoenix the topic/question does need to be addressed. A fundamental lack of personal boundaries is systemic throughout the church. It is an underlying problem that has led to many of the problems that have happened and are happening.

This is rubbish, you sit from afar and judge.  

You make it seem as though sex is often discussed by pastors other than MD and that is just not true.  Further, you make it seem as if it is likely small groups would have no problem problem explaining in detail their sexual sin.  How dare you.

The veil began lifting on my eyes as far back as 2006 and they are finally completely clear so I see the problem, still I find your comments to be baseless, offensive and presumptuous.

There are people that are rightly angry and desperate to be a part of change within the Bloomington location.  They are not all a bunch of robots, they are people that are filled with the Holy Spirt.  A person could even interpret your post as discounting the power of the Holy Spirt.

Why are you so upset by what I say? What I say is what happens in the church. I could bullet list events in which pastors or wives share sexual acts from the stage, or small groups during which members were pressured to share sexual acts with their partner, and times when explicit sexual talk took place in church settings. This happens. Over and over again.

[Phoenix]

Why are you so upset by what I say? What I say is what happens in the church. I could bullet list events in which pastors or wives share sexual acts from the stage, or small groups during which members were pressured to share sexual acts with their partner, and times when explicit sexual talk took place in church settings. This happens. Over and over again.

1.  I think my post illustrated why I was upset.  You are making sweeping generalizations about the whole church, including some I call friends and who are staying, with their guard up and trying to be part of the solution.
2.  What church?  If Evergreen, what location?  I do not need a bullet list but I am curious if you are speaking about Bloomington specifically.

[DarthVader]

Hey Phoenix - not to interrupt the convo with OneofMany - just wondering what you’ve decided to do. Stay or leave?

[OneOfMany]

Why are you so upset by what I say? What I say is what happens in the church. I could bullet list events in which pastors or wives share sexual acts from the stage, or small groups during which members were pressured to share sexual acts with their partner, and times when explicit sexual talk took place in church settings. This happens. Over and over again.

1.  I think my post illustrated why I was upset.  You are making sweeping generalizations about the whole church, including some I call friends and who are staying, with their guard up and trying to be part of the solution.
2.  What church?  If Evergreen, what location?  I do not need a bullet list but I am curious if you are speaking about Bloomington specifically.

I apologise. I in no way meant that every single person in the church is abusive or deceived or blind to what is going on. I can speak only to my personal experience in the church locations I attended. Most of the time I attended the Bloomington location. I also suspect that Bloomington is one of the locations that has serious problems to remedy. It sounds like Urban is on the healthier side based on what others say, but I have not attended Urban.

A bit off topic but some have suggested that Andy Gray leave GCM. However his credentials as a pastor are GCM credentials which means he would probably need to obtain a degree which would make him eligible to minister through a different organization.

[OneOfMany]

https://brucegerencser.net/2018/07/evangelical-pastor-mark-darling-resigns-over-sexual-misconduct-allegations/

The news articles are out there. This one names Mark Bowen in addition to Mark Darling.

"The investigation also revealed that assistant pastor Mark Bowen was aware seventeen years ago of at least two other women who had similar concerns about Darling, but failed to inform the church board of their allegations. Bowen was forced to give up his seat on the board of trustees. He remains part of the church’s pastoral staff."

[blonde]

The internal DNA of Evergreen Church is very much clear: do not question leadership, obey, tithe, and if women come ahead and say "fowl," mock them. So, Mark Bowen does the same, his hand was forced, and would have suppressed all facts until Mark Darling decided to retire, naturally, as he was too old to preach any longer. MD resigned under very difficult terms; terms he did not agree with. Mark Darling and Mark Bowen PREACH repentance, but by all means DO NOT LIVE A REPENTANT LIFESTYLE.

(Mark Bowen needs to go back to his medical sales career, and lie about how great product X is. For those that don't know on this forum, Mark Bowen was a medical sales rep, and then was made an Evergreen Community Church pastor. Great training, eh?)