Mark Bowen's May 18 message

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[MovedOn]

Listen especially at around the 27 minute timestamp:

http://subspla.sh/xxg9mc3

[Rebel in a Good Way]

Interesting that he's really focused on himself and his own pain.  That he weeps for himself.  That his biggest concern in all of this is his reputation.  Very pastoral  

And also, all that's matter is that I feel good about myself.

[Badger]

“January 31st, this year…  that was a particular season where the month of January some really tough things happened, and that particular night I could not sleep, and I began crying about midnight… and I cried into my little washcloth so I wouldn’t wake my wife.  And about 03:00, I figured out I am not going to sleep. .. so I’m reading through Psalms and crying most of the night, and I figured out, I came to terms what I was crying about. I brought my heart, and my mind, and my soul to the table as I was reading God’s Word out loud and praying out loud. I figured out, I’m grieving the loss of my reputation.  What happened in the month of January, in some circles, probably my reputation would never be regained.  Well, whatever it was before it won’t be the same.  I was grieving that loss…

And I’ve thought about this for the first time.  The ultimate sunrise when Jesus comes back, that’s my future; might be soon.  He’s going to do away with everything that scares me.  Every lie ever told about me, or my friend.  (Laughs, feh-heh)  Oh he’s going to do away with all evil, all suffering, all injustice, without doing away with all of us.  And we’re going to see him face to face.  And then we will know joy with no sorrow.  Oh, I just, it just exchanged my despair for hope.  Just because I cultivated a little ears to hear, and I was given what I desperately needed for the next day.Just wanted to paint a picture that helps tell the story.  There might be some agony in this; I think there often is, but it’s worth the journey. 

Let’s pray: Lord Jesus Thank you. You are the perfect listener .  Oh you died, on the cross partly what you were paying for was all the times that I have ignored, resisted, denied, defended, argued, and blame-shifted instead of listening, all the times I wanted to be ruined by praise rather than saved by gospel grace and truth.  Would you please help us?  Would you please help us, give us a hearing heart?  Please deepen that in me.  You’re very patient, Lord.  Much more so than I am.  You’re very strategic.  Would you please help us, to look for what we need in your whisper?  May the gospel, grace, and truth seed of God penetrate our hearts to bring transformation that glorifies you.  Amen.” - Ears to Hear – Mark Bowen 05/18/18 starting at 27:11

[OneOfMany]

Wow just wow. It was like a death when I left Evergreen. I believe I am going through yet another death here..because I still on some levels believed in these "Pastors".

I can no longer see them as having a relationship with Jesus Christ. They appear to use the word of God as a tool to manipulate. I am shaken to the core. This is simply awful.

[Rebel in a Good Way]

I am so sorry.  I can listen to these messages with detached emotion, but I do know what it's like to have a voice enter your ears that belongs to someone you used to trust, care about, even love, but then found out they were a wolf.  When you are able to hear the message behind their words, it is so difficult and conflicting.  Just wanted to validate your grief. 

Wow just wow. It was like a death when I left Evergreen. I believe I am going through yet another death here..because I still on some levels believed in these "Pastors".

I can no longer see them as having a relationship with Jesus Christ. They appear to use the word of God as a tool to manipulate. I am shaken to the core. This is simply awful.

[Badger]

“I figured out, I’m grieving the loss of my reputation.  What happened in the month of January, in some circles, probably my reputation would never be regained.  Well, whatever it was before, it won’t be the same."


Mark Bowen knew about Suzanne's abuse back in the early years of 2000.  He decided, along with other Evergreen leadership, to ignore her concerns and cover it up.  Such action allowed Mark Darling to continue to be abusive to future women in their church.  Mark Bowen has also been part of at least two abusive pastoral oustings and one excommunication in the last 8 years in regional Wisconsin churches he helps oversee.

Mark Bowen's reputation was not vindictively ruined by lying individuals.  His reputation was scarred when his actions behind closed doors were brought into the light.  Mark Bowen's, Mark Darling's, Brent Knox's, and Evergreen leadership's current reputation is a result of their own hypocrisy being brought into the light, not by those who are shining the light.

Yes, when Jesus comes back all suffering, injustice, and evil will be done away with.  But Mark Bowen's past actions are part of the injustice, part of the evil.  Mark Bowen is one of the reasons for the continued suffering regarding Mark Darling's abuse.  It is not scriptural to suggest God removes the consequences of leader's sin.  They have not even shown a contrite heart in any of the recent disclosures.  Even leaders that show immediate contrite hearts in scripture (GCC's hero David for example) still have long term consequences as a result of their sin.  David's reputation was never the same either; in fact, we are still reading about the loss of his reputation thousands of years later.  If Mark Bowen is suggesting that "God is going to do away with everything that scares [him]" by removing the consequences of his actions, then he must think he is one of the special exceptions to God holding leaders accountable for how they care for those under their care.  Or perhaps he just doesn't understand the difference between forgiveness, true repentance, and reconciliation.

When Mark Bowen stops crying into his little washcloth at night for himself and his reputation and instead cries for the all the lives he has harmed by his actions and his failure to lead and instead protect his position, then his actions would suggest he has a heart of contrition and not a strategic plan of self protection.  Oh, how I hope the Lord actually gives him "ears to hear."

[Badger]

Wow just wow. It was like a death when I left Evergreen. I believe I am going through yet another death here..because I still on some levels believed in these "Pastors".

I can no longer see them as having a relationship with Jesus Christ. They appear to use the word of God as a tool to manipulate. I am shaken to the core. This is simply awful.

I am sorry you are going through this now OOM.  I think it is pretty normal to have a continued grieving process as more pieces of the story are revealed and figuring out what that means in regards to your past experiences.

[Phoenix]

Wow just wow. It was like a death when I left Evergreen. I believe I am going through yet another death here..because I still on some levels believed in these "Pastors".

I can no longer see them as having a relationship with Jesus Christ. They appear to use the word of God as a tool to manipulate. I am shaken to the core. This is simply awful.

So this is what I have to look forward to in the coming months.  Awesome.
I fear for the lost of a friend that has become a blessing to me the last 5 years.

At one point near the end he talks about people who hate him and are saying these things. 
Does he not understand I still love him for the the many positive ways the Lord used him to bless me?
Does he not understand that I can love him but yet desperately want him and the others to be truthful and repent?

[GodisFaithful]

It is a mixed bag, Phoenix.

For years I did not want to face the dysfunction of what I came out of. I just wanted to see the positive, like, well, at least the gospel is being preached. But there is a dark side, when pastors are put on a pedestal and will fight to stay there, when they see themselves above and more important than the commoner, when they have way too much power and authority and they get used to abusing their position. They don't even see it, and a lot of evil can happen in the name of good.

It's easy to get sucked in to the twisting of Scriptures to prop up themselves and their brand of church. It's easy not to even see it from the inside. And the friendships that are broken when you leave, that is super painful.

Whatever you decide, God truly has all the healing balm that you need in his Word and in Himself. There is a silver lining for sure.

[OneOfMany]

Wow just wow. It was like a death when I left Evergreen. I believe I am going through yet another death here..because I still on some levels believed in these "Pastors".

I can no longer see them as having a relationship with Jesus Christ. They appear to use the word of God as a tool to manipulate. I am shaken to the core. This is simply awful.

So this is what I have to look forward to in the coming months.  Awesome.
I fear for the lost of a friend that has become a blessing to me the last 5 years.

At one point near the end he talks about people who hate him and are saying these things. 
Does he not understand I still love him for the the many positive ways the Lord used him to bless me?
Does he not understand that I can love him but yet desperately want him and the others to be truthful and repent?

Our paths out of the darkness of this group are not all the same. You do not have to look forward to what I am going through.

Many of us still have friends from the group. The pain experienced as one comes to recognize what was really going on and what the truth is comes in waves for me. Part of it is my own responsibility for being naive, too trusting and having a poor sense of boundaries. Anyone with healthy boundaries would not be part of this system which regularly functions with poor boundaries. I was deceived because I could be.

[AgathaL'Orange]

Leaving for me was really easy!!!

I still feel the same feeling of freedom today that I did what 14 years ago?!  13?!


Leaving was great.  I joined another church after hunting around for about 3-6 months.  Members there for 8.  Moved and joined another church after about a year and a half  of looking.  Now we’ve been in that one for 4. 

[Phoenix]

Our paths out of the darkness of this group are not all the same. You do not have to look forward to what I am going through.

Many of us still have friends from the group. The pain experienced as one comes to recognize what was really going on and what the truth is comes in waves for me. Part of it is my own responsibility for being naive, too trusting and having a poor sense of boundaries. Anyone with healthy boundaries would not be part of this system which regularly functions with poor boundaries. I was deceived because I could be.

Yeah, good points, I was just being a bit dramatic.

Thankfully our eyes opened a while ago, maybe 10+ years.  The curtain is just being pulled back farther and farther and by people I know and trust better than earlier.

[OneOfMany]

Yeah, good points, I was just being a bit dramatic.

Thankfully our eyes opened a while ago, maybe 10+ years.  The curtain is just being pulled back farther and farther and by people I know and trust better than earlier.

Yes. That curtain. The current events in the group are certainly pulling back the curtain.

[Rebel in a Good Way]

I find this to be my experience after having been in not one, but two super unhealthy churches!  Certain parts of GCC--like not depending on the Holy Spirit to speak to me but believing God would speak through pastors and others (because they taught me that); not having confidence because, especially as a woman, I couldn't trust myself because I was so easily influenced by emotions; reading the bible through a certain lens that neglected the best parts of who I am (and who God is) and instead left me constantly fighting shame--set me up to be spiritually abused in a different way at a different church also. 

I was also "naive, too trusting and having a poor sense of boundaries."  But--what if I had ended up in a healthy church at the age of 21?  When if they had modeled and taught boundaries, wisdom and confidence rather than naivete, and how to determine the trustworthiness based on actions, as well and the proper place of leadership in one's life?  Churches should be safe places for anyone, if they show up with healthy boundaries and development or not.  If churches receive people that are naive, etc., they need to be extra careful to do well by those people rather than exploit them.  So, I hear what you are saying and think I was the same, but it is the responsibility of the pastors to care for you well.  It is not your fault that you lacked good boundaries and ended up in a place that would use that to their advantage. 

Our paths out of the darkness of this group are not all the same. You do not have to look forward to what I am going through.

Many of us still have friends from the group. The pain experienced as one comes to recognize what was really going on and what the truth is comes in waves for me. Part of it is my own responsibility for being naive, too trusting and having a poor sense of boundaries. Anyone with healthy boundaries would not be part of this system which regularly functions with poor boundaries. I was deceived because I could be.

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