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Author Topic: Mark Darling starting new church?  (Read 20762 times)
Del
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« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2020, 01:47:19 pm »

I am not trying to persuade anyone to join anything. The “wolves”, as you have described them, are not interested in hearing what I think. I’ve tried.

My initial message in the forum was to express, bluntly, a concern for the "testimony" presented to the greater WWW community, which includes the religion-haters (aka atheists). G-d may not need our help, but He does appreciate our efforts.

I have not been a member of “the church” for twenty-five years. During those years, I have heard and read much of what the community of atheists thinks about “the church” or any religious institutions, for that matter. Their chief spokespeople hold the church in contempt, all of it, the good the bad and the ugly. Furthermore, not only do they NOT expect the church to deal decisively with egregious behavior, they think the church IS egregious behavior…and they are mostly correct.

Be assured, there is help available for the hurting, there will be consequences for the abuser, and abundant guidance is available for anyone in search of the truth.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 01:51:03 pm by Del » Logged
Huldah
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« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2020, 07:30:25 am »

There are most definitely atheists who are open to the gospel. It's not the occasional fallen pastor who turns them away from Christ. It's the willingness of the church to judge outsiders for sin while downplaying the same sin when one of our own is guilty. Who can blame them for mocking that?

Whatever you may think of this forum, I wish it had existed back when I was younger. I wasn't told the truth about what I was signing up for when I joined Solid Rock. I would never have joined if I'd known then what I know now.

I've said all I have to say in this discussion. If you want to have the last word, go for it.
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Del
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« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2020, 08:27:40 am »

Hmmm...atheists open to the gospel*. That's like lobsters being open to the bar-b-que. And If I knew "then" what I know now, I would never have been involved in selling it*. (Does that qualify as a last word? Undecided)
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 08:42:24 am by Del » Logged
Linda
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« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2020, 10:55:27 am »

Del,

I noted in your comment that you have not been a member of "the church" for 25 years. I am curious about how you found this site and how you initially became involved with GCC and why you left. Sounds like you were an early member, but your journey has taken you a different direction.
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Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
Del
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« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2020, 11:38:24 am »

A different direction, indeed. Just call me "Abbey". And thank you for your kind words. You're obviously one of the good ones.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 12:01:30 pm by Del » Logged
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« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2020, 07:28:21 pm »

I was there.  So was my wife.  Good grief, if that talk by Herschel is "good stuff" somebody has some real spiritual ignorance guiding their life.  It was horrible, especially if one knew why Herschel gave that talk.  Bill T. did, and so did many other leaders.  It wasn't shared in a vacuum as a result of the Holy Spirit leading Herschel into spiritual truth.  It was shared because there were deep problems within the eldership at that time, particularly with Jim.  Herschel was used by Jim to make abusive teaching acceptable.  It wouldn't work to have Jim teaching on this stuff to a bunch of elders who were starting to question many foundational things within the movement.  And the choice of the conference was handpicked because Albuquerque was splitting off from Jim...  Las Cruces...with Brooky Stockton and Mack Weaver also broke away in hostility.  The Schoolers and others in Albuquerque were doing the same thing.  This was an indoctrination meeting.  And you thought this was "good stuff"? 

A lot of spiritual carnage took place in New Mexico at that time.  It was terrible for those involved.  I'm glad you were fortunate enough to go home with a warm and fuzzy feeling after Herschel's wonderful talk.  The rest of us had to stay behind and pick up the pieces.
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Del
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« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2020, 12:02:39 am »

The "good stuff" I referred to (and put in quotes for a very specific reason) were the parts of the Letter to Titus, itself, that dealt with pursuing good character and avoiding public disputes. And although I no longer subscribe to that letter or any other part of the NT, I still consider those two items to be of value.




« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 09:00:36 am by Del » Logged
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« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2020, 07:25:34 pm »

So you were in GCI for 25 years, and have obviously left.  But not only did you leave GCI but you have left the whole NT behind as well.  You suggested that members of the forum need to get past their prior abuses and memories within the group and undergo a "paradigm shift."

Observations:

1) You were a converted Jew for Jesus and after you left GCI you abandoned Christian traditions (and the NT) and went back to Judaism.

[or]

2) You are a gentile who has since "seen the light" and joined up with with what is popularly called "The Hebrew Roots Movement," or one of its innumerable splinter groups.

You leave many clues behind that the second option is most likely true.  Your reluctance to spell out the word G-d is a dead giveaway. 

My wife and I came from Jewish families when we were saved; Her at age 20 in 1970, and me at the tender age of 18.  My father disowned me, and when he died ten years ago he cut me out of the will (I was the first born son.)  Why?  Because of God's dear son Yeshua.  We believe He is not only the Messiah but also God incarnate.  We believe that Paul in Phillipians 2 refers to Yeshua as Hashem (the name) -- "The name that is above every name."

In our Jewish tradition, it was inappropriate to even spell out Elohim, which you seem now to have adopted in your refusal to write out G-d.  And I would guess that likewise you cannot say Adonai Elohim, (Lord God) and insert HaShem instead.  These are traditions that were developed in Rabbinic Judaiism, and were also prevalent in the strictest of Judaaic sects -- Pharisees.  These teachings, as we have learned painfully when talking about Yeshua to fellow Jews, deny the divinity of Yeshua and reject the teachings of the New Testament.  I am certain that you could not have learned these things within GCI, but only afterward.  I would guess that the Hebrew Roots Movement (or one of its splinter groups) gives you the same elite sensations that you had, and possibly still long for, within your life while you were in GCI. 

Sooooooo... Why throw out the NT?  Because somebody told you it was originally written in Hebrew and it was corrupted into Greek?  Or that it is some anti-semitic document that should be considered hate speech today?  Is this the "paradigm shift" that you wish the people on this forum need to adopt to move on?

I hope I am wrong, but having tracked the various tendriles of the HRM over the last 25 years since it's inception, I pray that the pain you experienced within GCI did not find solace in such an aberrant group or in one of its' offshoots. 

I say this for anyone on this forum that reads your threads.  Yeshua is Adonai Elohim.  Yeshua is HaShem.  Yeshua is God incarnate.  Throw GCI away if you must.  But not the NT, which is as much (Jewish) Scripture as the OT.  Do not abandon your faith, or Yeshua's Divine love for you (all).  Do not abandon the Word of God as expressed within the NT, which has the power to lead you into all truth and to present you blameless and spotless in the Day of Christ.

Again, if I am totally off base, then, my sincere apologies.  You have decided to throw the NT away because you believe God (whoops G-D) isn't in it.  That's your right.  But I hope you haven't exchanged GCI for a much bigger lie. 

Written by two Jews for Yeshua!!!!!!   We survived for 50 years and still love the Lord Jesus Christ!!!!  At 70, our lives are near the end.  And we can't wait to see our Lord Jesus' face!!!!
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Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2020, 07:45:18 pm »

Thank you, Old Timer, for honoring so well the Lord who redeems all who trust Him.  Thank you for your precious thoughts and reminders for me and all who read here.  Thank you.
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For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Del
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« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2020, 02:37:44 am »

First of all, thank you, OldTimer.

Second of all, full disclosure may be a good thing at this point.
Del is my “handle”. My name is Mordechai Yaakov.
I and my wife of fifty-one years are Charedi Jews who live in the Judean Hills just south of Jerusalem. That's not exactly a "splinter group", but more like the original tree.

My history with the CGx “works” covers the years from 1975 to c. 2000.
My wife and I and four of our seven children converted to Orthodox Judaism in Lakewood, NJ, 10+ years ago. The others are informed and practical Noachides.

1) “Your reluctance to spell out the word G-d is a dead giveaway.”
For the past fifteen years, I have attempted to make contact with former colleagues regarding what we were learning and how our viewpoint had changed. I did succeed in making contact with some former associates, including GCI leadership, on several occasions. Nothing, thus far, has resulted. In all my correspondence with former GCx’rs,“Jews for Jesus” types, and even a few religion-hating atheist folks, I would drop the “G-D” bread crumb hoping someone would pick it up. Nicely done.

As you well know, Orthodox Judaism is certainly not for everybody. I think you also know that it was never intended to be. However, the Laws of the Creator are universal. Among other things, Orthodoxy teaches that Jews have a responsibility for “tikkun olam”, the idea that Jews bear responsibility not only for their own moral, spiritual, and material welfare, but also for the welfare of society at large. That is the reason I communicate with anybody. That is why I initiated correspondence within the forum, and why I submit this letter.

OldTimer, I am truly sorry about your relationship with your father. That’s a heart-breaker. It would be even more tragic, however, if you missed the opportunity to re-connect with him in Gan Eden.

2) “Why?  Because of God's dear son Yeshua.  We believe He is not only the Messiah but also God incarnate.”
OldTimer, Yaakov Avinu is G-d’s one and only first-born son. You know that. And as for G-d being incarnate…did you and your father ever learn Rambam together? Did you ever learn Pirkie Avot? If you had, we would not be having this exchange.

An important part of fulfilling the responsibility of tikkun olam is expressed in the Proverbs of King Solomon.

If you refrained from rescuing those taken off to death, those condemned to slaughter—
If you say, “We knew nothing of it,” Surely He who fathoms hearts will discern [the truth], He who watches over your life will know it, and He will pay each man as he deserves.
(24:11-12)

Avot, Mishnah 1:12 is also germane to the call. (The Nazarene cult hijacked it and warped it into the so-called “Golden Rule”, and eventually into Paul’s “gospel”.)

As for our generation, I am of the opinion that those who started the Di-Commissioned forum are of the same age group as my wife and me. We are of that “golden decade” mentioned in Psalm 90, which I included below. There are, I’m sure, those contributors who span previous decades, as well.

Psalm 90, as well as the balance of the “Old Testament”, was written by Jews for Jews, and those non-Jews who choose to be governed by the Laws of The Creator. Idolaters – though referenced in many places – are expressly excluded from the commonwealth of Israel. You know that. You may not like it, and you may not agree with it, but the contract is clear and irrevocable.

3) I would guess that the Hebrew Roots Movement (or one of its splinter groups) gives you the same elite sensations that you had, and possibly still long for, within your life while you were in GCI.
Nope. I don’t need it, I don’t long for it. When Hashem gives His approval*, all else is of little value. Meaning and purpose are part of the package.

4) Is this the "paradigm shift" that you wish the people on this forum need to adopt to move on?
Yes. I would say that* is a fair assessment.

Do to the fact that we are in that decade of seventy years, or, given the strength, eighty years, it would be a good thing to reconsider redeeming the years you have expended in service to the “Nazarene Cult”*. The last six verses of the Psalm 90 eloquently express what would be a proper sentiment in that regard. This would be especially true in light of the pain and suffering some cult refugees continue to experience.
* Deuteronomy 12:32~13:1-5 New American Standard Bible

Such a shift will not be easy. Believe me, I know. However, I also know that it not only yields remarkable peace, it also beats the heck out the prospect of riding the boat over the falls into a grim eternity.

Psalm 90, Sefaria
A prayer of Moses, the man of God. O Lord, You have been our refuge in every generation.
Before the mountains came into being, before You brought forth the earth and the world, from eternity to eternity You are God.
You return man to dust; You decreed, “Return you mortals!”
For in Your sight a thousand years are like yesterday that has passed, like a watch of the night.
You engulf men in sleep; at daybreak they are like grass that renews itself;
at daybreak it flourishes anew; by dusk it withers and dries up.
So we are consumed by Your anger, terror-struck by Your fury.
You have set our iniquities before You, our hidden sins in the light of Your face.
All our days pass away in Your wrath; we spend our years like a sigh.
The span of our life is seventy years, or, given the strength, eighty years; but the best of them are trouble and sorrow. They pass by speedily, and we are in darkness.
Who can know Your furious anger? Your wrath matches the fear of You.
Teach us to count our days rightly, that we may obtain a wise heart.
Turn, O LORD! How long? Show mercy to Your servants.
Satisfy us at daybreak with Your steadfast love that we may sing for joy all our days.
Give us joy for as long as You have afflicted us, for the years we have suffered misfortune.
Let Your deeds be seen by Your servants, Your glory by their children.
May the favor of the Lord, our God, be upon us; let the work of our hands prosper, O prosper the work of our hands!


5) I hope you haven't exchanged GCI for a much bigger lie.
Rest assured, OldTimer. Whereas we did exchange GCI for something much bigger, it certainly has proven to be no lie.

(I think our two families may have had a pizza party together at one time. If so, I’d like for that to happen again.)

P.S. I won't be able to reply to anyone until midday, MST, tomorrow. That will be after Shabbat for us, and we are 10 hours ahead of you.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 04:45:07 am by Del » Logged
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« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2020, 02:17:14 pm »

Well you have succeeded in finding someone who will respond to you from GCI, and even from it's original start name..."The Blitz."  We were there at the beginning and we even have a taped teaching of Jim M. using Nazi tactics to formulate strategies for "conquering the world."  At the time we joined, it mattered little where one came from or what background one grew up in.  Going to college where I did gave me an abundance of Jewish students that were dorm mates, but I must say that I have no idea how many fellow Jews found themselves within GCI.  I do know of a couple of people though.

My Grandma's background is virtually unknown, since she came here from Vienna Austria as a child, and her folks masked nearly all of their "Jewishness" and her kids thought more of themselves as "German immigrants" than as Jews.  Abby Weinstein was her given name, but it was changed to Weins when they felt safe in this country.  I do not fault her for the name change, or for the need she felt to obscure her Jewishness.  None of us can imagine the horror that she and millions of other Jews experienced at that time.  Soooo, what am I?  Where did I come from?  Like so many European Jews, our geneology has been erased at worst, and almost impossibly obscured at best.  DNA tests show my heritage, but the tracing is cut.  Hence, Askenazi Jew is the best I can do.

Not so with the wife.  Her story is spectacular, and she can be traced all the way back to David.  Her direct ancestors include some of Judaiisms greatest Rabbis, both in Southern Spain, and in Babylon at the time of the exile.  Her people were not in Israel at the time of Yeshua, but returned to Babylon before the Roman occupation.  Her ancestry book is over 500 pages long, and totally complete.  Her family was exiled in the Spanish inquisition and they sailed to Mexico.  When the Mexican Inquisition began, they fled to regions in Northern New Mexico where there is a vibrant community of Spanish Jews to this day, most of whom were included in the "hidden ones."

Anyway...I must tell you the truth that I am so relieved that you and yours are true Jews and not part of what has been called the "Hebrew Roots Movement" here in the states.  Everybody has a right to their opinion, and your gracious response expresses the hospitality of Father Abraham. 

My office is full of books...including complete Rambam.  I have been collecting Artscroll Mesorah publications and comentaries since they began publishing nearly 30 years ago.  I like the literal interpretations, not the neo-Jewish commentaries that pepper the jewish bookstores today.  My books  cover the entire Tanach as well as the Talmud, Mishnah, and Rashi.  I must have 200 Hebrew commentaries by Israel's great sages.  Every book in my library has been read by me.  I study constantly.  But I must still say that for my wife and I, Yeshua is still the Meshiach, and in reading some of the sages I see so clearly how close they were to seeing this truth.  In many cases, the "minority opinion", expressed by Iben Ezra or Eliezer in many Messianic passages is more correct.

So, my friend, we would still have a conversation after Rambam.  In fact, I would hope every Jew has a conversation after Rambam.  I don't hold him to be infallible no matter what...  like the Pope.

I also have the Zohar, which is incredible.  I have studied Kabbalah, and Gematria.  Leonora Leet's book "The Secrets of Kabbalah" is one of the 5 most scholarly books I have ever read.  And yet, after reading everything Jewish in both English and Hebrew, I still come to the same conclusion about Yeshua.

By the way, you might find it surprising that I adhere to Seder Olam Rabbah for my OT dates.  I read Rabbi Silver's book "Messianic Speculation In Israel" and even became more convinced in Yeshua's Messiahship than before I read it.  But Daniel's 70 weeks makes Yeshua the Messiah according to Seder Olam Rabbah.  Ezekiel's vision of the Merkevah, which is dated to 433 BC, and the Son of Man's carrying of the sins of Israel (390 days--a day for a year), and Judahs' (40 days--a day for a year) also take you to the birth of Yeshua.  Everything works if one sees Solomon's temple destroyed in 422 BC.  And I am saddened that many modern Jewish teachers abandon the Rabbinic Chronology because many of their Yeshiva students end up asking the same question:  Where is Daniel's Messiah?  And don't tell me that Daniel's Messiah was actually Yeshua, the accursed false prophet of Deuteronomy 18 (as Rambam does).  He says Yeshua was the abominator of the Temple foretold by Daniel.  (He could only come up with that if he also used Seder Olam Rabbah, which he never admits to in his writing.)  So, dear friend, we do have what God prophesied through Isaiah, "The Controversy of Zion."  But I would rather have it with you than anyone else. 

I believe in the Rab Pesha, and also "The Iniquity of the Heel."  I believe in the miracle son Isaac, who was a type of Messiah. And I use the ancient Jewish principles of interpretation that are far superior to that of modern day Biblical scholars.  I believe in the four levels of truth (surface, hint, search, and secret (sod)), which I utilize all the time.  I believe in two mountains, two women, two covenants, two sons, two births, two Jerusalems, two temples, and two kingdoms.  And I have still come to the inescapable conclusion that Yeshua is the one and only Meshiach.  I do not believe that Hezekiah was "almost" the Messiah.  I don't believe that Zedekiah was also "almost" the Messiah.  I know that our understanding of what Messiah will do when He comes differs, I am sure.  I have read "Why Jesus is Not the Messiah".  I know all the arguments and have studied them carefully.  It has not changed my mind.

I also find it remarkable that many contemporary Jews love to compare the calling of Abraham (Seder Olam Rabbah date 1948 from Adam), and compare it to the birth of modern Israel (1948 from what Paul called "Adam II", Yeshua).  It seems to me that HaShem had the obvious in mind here too. 

But believe me, it is wonderful to have discourse with you.  I am in and out in this forum.  And I don't want to make this site a significant part of my life at this point.  If I don't respond for a while, it is because I have a very active life with physical people.  I have no on-line life. 

The question becomes: What are you going to do with me and my wife since we are mislead apostate Jews in Rambam's eyes?  We have violated one of the 13 principles of faith through Judaism?   Do you believe that when your Messiah comes then we must convert to his messiahship or suffer Ezra's 4 judgements--Exile, confiscation of property, imprisonment, or death?

I am aware that, according to you, I am breaking Shabbat, but I don't see it that way.  I am doing a good work right now, my friend.

Shalom



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« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2020, 02:46:51 pm »

DEI:

I re-read your letter and I hope I did not misunderstand.  You were born Jewish but converted to Orthodox Judaism 10 years ago?  Or are you a gentile that converted to Judaism?  If you were born a Jew, then are you married to a gentile wife?  Four of your seven kids converted to Judaism and the other three are Noahides?   Can that be possible if both you and your wife are Jewish?   I know all about the "Sons of Noah" movement, which in this country was born in Norman, Oklahoma, in 1982-3.  There was a GCI church there at one time.  If your parents were not practicing Jews, then you as a child would have to convert.  But children of practicing orthodox Jews need not convert.  This all sounds like the last chapter of Ezra.   If I misunderstood you, then much of what I wrote to you has been misdirected.  HuhHuh  Also, did you receive a name change when you converted?

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« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2020, 02:03:23 pm »

OldTimer,

Thank you for your gracious and impressive reply. I will need to cerebrate for some time on all that you have offered.

As I wrote in my last post, my wife and I and four of our seven children - all non-Jewish - converted to Orthodox Judaism in Lakewood, NJ, 10+ years ago. To answer your question more specifically, and remove any remaining misunderstanding, we were all born-again Christians at the time.

There is a mysterious element in my mother's genealogy that suggests a possible Jewish connection at the time of the Chmielnicki Massacres of the mid-1600's, but nothing conclusive. Those of us who converted were gentiles, and assumed Jewish names upon certification with the Lakewood Beis Din.

In pursuing any dialogue or friendly "controversy" with you, it is clear I would have little to offer, and even less by way of defense. My meager knowledge base, compared to your impressively broad and deep background of study, would put me at a distinct disadvantage. If I have any depth at all in Jewish thought/literature, it would be with several of the works on mussar.

When we ran out of depth...which happened fairly quickly...attempting to establish a solid foundation for our existing Christian beliefs from the OT, we began to investigate Judaism. What we discovered made short work of the distortions of NT theology, as we understood it, and opened us up to the depth of Jewish moral teachings such as Pirkei Avos and Mesillas Yesharim.

I have only had ten years of study time, starting with a 0 grasp of Lashon Kodesh and even less than that of Rashi. Rabbi Art Scroll has been my tether to Talmud, and English translations of the works I mentioned constitute my wading pool. Though I am l-at, l-at, adding to my vocabulary, I don't think I'm ready for the deep end. Undecided

Shabbat observance and adhering to the halacha have added incredible peace and clarity to our lives, and, in that, we can only credit Hashem for His mercy and faithfulness.

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« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2020, 07:13:33 pm »

Well thank you for your honesty.  There were just so many things that kind of swirled around in my head, and I kept trying to synthesize it together into something that made since since it seemed that you were saying you were Jewish, and yet....I could you be?

It's fine.

You are in a very deep world right now, and all I can tell you is that there are some very very well educated Jewish people that know all the ins and outs of Judaiism--not unlike Saul/Paul, who are absolutely convinced when reading the true classic Jewish literature, the old stuff... the honest stuff that was chewed over and discussed not just 1,000 years ago, but before Yeshua, and the insight and the questions and the struggling to find out "what person or times the ruach hakodosh within them was signifying when they spoke of the Meshiach to come and the glories that followed," that my journey was the same as theirs... and inevitably the conclusion was the same as theirs.  Yeshua is the Meshiach. 

As I said, you are part of a group that is part of a larger group that is part of an even larger group of Rabbis (Rebbes) that among themselves disagree strenuously on many matters of Halakah.  That is the essence of Judaiism.  "Father...why does it say thus?  Because of this my son.  Than father....why then did this happen....?  Because, my son, Rebbe so and so says this.   But didn't Rebbe sos and so disagree and say this...?"   This, I am sorry to say, is Judaism in pure form.

There is nothing wrong with this.  Paul talked abut the church this way in 1 Corinthians 14.  GCI would never allow such dialogue.  You, however, have somehow got in your thinking that your group of Rebbes are right...totally right.  You said I should know what you know about father Jacob.  I know father Jacob.  The majority opinion, my friend, is not that Jacob was the perfect man, ish taal, but imperfect like us all.

By the way.  Jacob was punished (Haredi teaching) for his dealing with Joseph in Egypt, and was not allowed to live his full allotment of years, which was to be 180.  HaShem took off 33 years of his life.  Who fulfilled his allotment?  Who took upon himself those missing 33 years?  Yeshua did.  33 is a key gematria schematic for messianic secrets.  All point to Yeshua.

Concerning the end of days...Jacob faltered there as well.  Again, with the blessing of the sons of Joseph...again, a faltering.  With the death of his beloved Rachel, not to be buried in Machpelah, but "along the road to Bethlehem...again, a faltering.  He listened to a woman (his mother) and conspired to cheat his older brother out of his inheritance.  And to deceive his own father. And this was also a faltering.  He did not even seek for the heavenly blessings.  It was his mother that believed the prophecies of the birth of the twins, and she did what she had to do to fulfill the foretelling.  But it came at a terrible cost.  What you do not understand, and that your Rebbes do not understand, is that Esau is due justice.  Since Jacob masqueraded as Esau, at the end of the world, Esau gets to masquerade as Jacob...deceiving Israel into thinking it is father Jacob.  And, my dear dear friend.  How will you know the difference?  Same mother....same father... same DNA....same birthplace... same heritage....same land.  You will not know.  "I saw another beast come up out of the land (you know "the land" means Israel) having two horns like a lamb but he spoke as a dragon"  That Dei, is not your Jacob, but Esau.

I love you and yours.  Take care.  Yeshua is real anywhere to anyone.  Even to apostate Jews, or back-slidden Christians.  He is still real to all on this forum, even though many of us followed our own Esau's, wolves in sheep's clothing.  You see my friend...we in the flesh react in the flesh.  We must train ourselves to perceive not just the appearance of a twin-horned ram, but his voice.  GCI elders were Esau's, and their voice was that of a dragon, though they looked like sheep.

First appearance of Yeshua (Strong's number 3444), in the Old Testament is granted to father Jacob in his prophecies to his 12 sons of the end of days:  "And to Dan He said, "Dan will judge his people, as one of the children of Israel, but he is really a serpent in the way (Derek), an asp which bites at the horses heel (Jesurun) and causes the rider to fall backwards.  For thy Yeshua, oh Lord, I Will Wait." 

Yes father Jacob.  For thy Yeshua I will also wait!!
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Del
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« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2020, 07:51:52 pm »

OldTimer, thank you again for another mind-bending reply.  I totally understand the "swirling around in the head" part. I went to bed four hours ago (12:30 a.m. Israel time), and just now woke-up (4:30 a.m. IT) asking myself a question, which I wanted to ask you as well.

If you could distill all the information in your considerable library (combined with all your equally considerable thoughts) down to one practicable principle of conduct, what would it be?

I may be the most naïve septuagenarian on the planet, but I think I may have stumbled on to such a principle a few years ago. If so, and if practiced diligently, it would go a long way in bringing Moshiach. After all, isn't that the point in all of this?

Looking forward.

(OT, if you think it would be better, more advisable, or if you prefer, we could continue our discourse on another venue, such as email. Otherwise, I'm O.K. with this forum. Let me know what you think.)
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« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2020, 09:29:35 am »

Hoping to hear more.
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« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2020, 09:15:19 pm »

Jeromy Darling has converted to Catholicism.

You can hear his story here.

https://www.chesterton.org/uncommonsense
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« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2020, 06:34:43 am »

Interesting.

Jeromy appears to be less than forthright with the interviewer. He implies that there was only one accuser, when there were several. He says that the church launched an investigation just for show, knowing Mark was innocent, when evidence suggests that the leadership believed Scout twenty years ago and promised her that Mark would get counseling. He glosses over the fact that the church's own investigator found enough substance to the accusations to prompt Mark's removal from office. He omits the fact that Mark was offered a path of repentance and return to ministry. He claims that "The Reckoning" launched an online war, as if he were the one under attack, when it was he and his allies who came here to smear Scout and try to take over as "content creators" (his words) on this forum. He says no one defended his father, in spite of 152 pro-Mark testimonials on the Mark Darling Pastor website.

All of this is easily searchable, which leads me to wonder why the Chesterton Society apparently didn't vet him before the interview.
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« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2020, 11:54:43 am »

I'm very familiar with Chestertonians in the Twin Cities. I am married to one. Terry has regularly attended the monthly meetings of the Chesterton Society for nearly 15 years. I am saddened and shocked that no vetting was done.

I hope Jeromy has truly found Jesus. If he is a true convert, I would expect an apology for his his non-Chestertonian rants and vulgarities on this forum and his attempts to intimidate victims of sexual abuse.
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« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2020, 07:55:56 pm »

DISENCHANTMENT WITH THE CHURCH


Disenchantment with the Protestant Church should certainly not be based on the GCx Church Organization.  At the best, The GCx Churches have been labeled an a Totally Aberrant Church Organization by former members.  Others (including myself) have described them as closer to a Christian Cult.  Their many grave abuses of Authoritarian “Lording”, Alienating Loyalty, Shunning Silence, Invading Personal Privacy, and Wounding Rebukes have seriously altered the face of Christianity to many thousands of members.  Paul himself in the New Testament warns us these type of leaders practice a DIFFERENT Jesus, not the one he introduced them too.

Please do be put off from Protestant Christianity by GCx’s teachings or tactics.  GCx became the result of a Bitter Root becoming the Main Stem from which they drew their motivation and approval, rather than Jesus.  Thus, a very deformed and diseased tree resulted.  The Apostle Paul doesn’t want believers to perceive that Jesus is like that.  He doesn’t want them to lose their initial joy that they experienced growing in grace.  He is very concerned they will become like their new leaders who have stopped relying on the flow of faith, and heavily relied on the opinions and traditions of men.  He tells them if they continue this way they too will eventually stop depending on the power of grace and become hollow shells of what they were meant to be.  Paul is in tears over their staying with these toxic leaders.

There are SO MANY healthy Protestant Christian Churches, Bible Study Groups, and organizations out there. Please atleast try a number of them so that you can have the community of faith to support and encourage you, and help in your time of need.  

That said, I would like to state that I understand that there are some Gospel-centered Catholic Priests and parishioners who believe that personally accepting Jesus and his payment on the cross ALONE is the only way to live eternally with God in Heaven.  There has been a “born-again” movement growing among Catholics for a number of decades.  It does, however, seem this is the minority of Catholic Churches at this time.  

Speaking of which, I was visiting my father and went to his Episcopal Church (near Baltimore) with him one Sunday (over 30 years ago).  I had then been “born-again” (or personally accepted Christ) several years prior.  The priest described that he had just come back from a wonderful retreat where he was very much transformed.  To my astonishment, he announced with genuine humility, “I’m no longer head of this church, Christ is.”  I could hardly contain myself.  I knew my dad would probably not leave the Episcopal Church, so I had been praying for several years he would bring his priest to genuine saving faith in Christ.  It was miracle to me!

I later became friends with a former Episcopalian woman in my non-denominational church who knew of several priests who had become born again through a particular evangelical Episcopal priest in the Baltimore area.  He organized some of these retreats for many years.  How wonderful!!!  PRAISE GOD.  He has a place for everyone. He strongly advises us to regularly be around people of genuine faith.  He knows we are but dust, and easily influenced by those around us.  He also wants to show HIS LOVE for us through his people.  If they are not showing the love of Christ, go somewhere else where they are, and His Word is accurately taught.



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For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
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