my experience and thoughs on gcm

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[mm]

i am a current member of gcm and have been raised pretty much as a "great commission kid," so you may think that my opinion is biased, but oh well.
first of all, the whole reason this organization was started was to follow the "great commission" which is stated in the Bible in Matthew 28:18-20. Jesus is talking to his disciples and says, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.  Therefore go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything i have commanded you.  And surely i am with you always, to the very end of the age."  The main two people who started the organization, Herschel Martindale and Dennis Clark (whom i know personally) saw that most churches in their day weren't accomplishing this and were just getting comfortable with their life and weren't making any effort to fulfill Jesus' commandment.  That's why they started it, because they were strong Christians with a passion for God and his word.
So now that you know the background, i will elaborate on what i feel about current leadership.  First of all, not that Jesus said "[teach] them to obey EVERYTHING i have commanded you."  So pretty much, when people are new to Christ, they need to be taught his commandments, so that's why we tell people what they should or should not be doing.  Leaders are mush more mature Christians who have a thorough knowledge of the word and have studied the Bible and have done their best to interpret the parts of it that are a bit vague.  since the leaders are mature, they are usually the ones who teach the younger (not necessarily age, but maturity in Christ) Christians what they should be doing, and that's why the newer Christians are encouraged to talk to the pastors instead of other young Christians who haven't had any time to read through the Bible a few times and who don't really know what they're talking about.  Now, in this situation, with the leaders giving a lot of advice, there is an obvious possibility of a pastor getting big-headed and feeling more important than other, but we have a solution for that.  we make sure that the churches have a plurality of leaders, in other words, more than one or two leaders that can keep each other in check and keep them level headed.  my father is a leader in my church and there are two other pastors right now and another person is being considered to be a leader.  i know from his experience that the plurality of leaders works, because when one of them starts to talk or act in any way that makes them seem superior than others, the other two pastors will come in and tell him.
to go on the issue of us feeling "superior to other churches" we don't.  we do recognize if a church seems "dead" or just like they aren't really doing anything for God, but in those cases, the members of the other church usually aren't truely Christians (they haven't asked God for forgiveness of sins and haven't given their life to God).  i know that my cousin, for example, attends a typical church and calls herself a "Christian," but she isn't at all and doesn't have any morals.  in cases like these, we don't think that the church is doing their job, considering a lot of their members don't know Christ personally.  another larger example of this is the catholic church.  even though people get confirmed, go to catholic schools, and attend church every week, many of them have never even heard the gospel or had it explained to them ( i know this because i have a lot of catholic friends who have been confirmed and everything).  when churches are "healthy" and are evangelizing and are following Jesus' commandments, we encourage them and are happy if people go to their church.  our main concern though is that new Christians are immersed in an environment where God is present and is moving people.
when it comes to treating dating as a sin, we don't teach that.  if we did, it was a long time ago and those people just got it wrong.  we suggest that people should "date with a purpose," meaning that they should date only if they intend or are thinking about marriage as a possibility.  i personally think that teenage dating makes no sense whatsoever.  i think that two people of the opposite sex can be best friends, as long as it is a brotherly/sisterly love for each other.
i think that the reason people date that dont plan on getting married is so that they have an excuse to fulfill any lust or sexual desires (including anything from kissing to sex).  when i think about a relationship that i have with a guy, i first think, would i do this with my brother? if it's holding hands or hugging or something, it's fine. you dont need to date to do that. but if it's any of "the bases" that's not right and it's immoral, especially with brothers in Christ.
when it comes to discouragement of college, thats bull.  my church is a campus church, so we are reaching out to college students.  if we encouraged people to quit college, then we wouldn't exactly have much of a church because everyone would leave.  i think that what people could be referring to is the leaders, or others, telling people that if they feel like God is leading them to go elsewhere or do anything for him, then they should, whether they're in college, in a comfortable home or whatever, and they should be willing to drop everything they have for God.  the leaders don't really just go to random members and tell them to go to ukraine or something, people feel moved by God, "prayerfully consider" what they think God is telling them to do, and then talk to a leader or something about what they think God wants them to do, and the leaders will pray for awhile, and usually God will give you an idea about what he wants you to do.  so if the leaders feel like God is telling them that also, then you should probably move to ukraine.  the reason people go to leaders, or others, about this is so that they have some back up, because if God wants you to do something, he will make sure you know.
i think that there was also something about people being encouraged to go to conferences during the summer or something? but yeah, i've attended faithwalkers for i think four years now, and i just went to hslt this past summer.  i would encourage any christian, new or old, to go to these conferences.  i have been moved by God so much, especially at hslt, because it's all people my age and it's a week of just you and God.  the talks that people give at the conferences are just regular talks, and at hslt, they were more evangelism training, so that we can go out and fulfill Jesus' commandments. but yeah these conferences are some the most moving things ever.  you spend so much time with God, and especially while you are worshiping God, whether singing or praying or through your actions or whatever, the connection is so great and powerful because it's just a week where you can focus on just God and nothing else.

i personally love the great commission association, because everyone is so devoted to God and to fulfilling his commandments it's wonderful.  i have made some of my closest friends through this association and it was initially just based on our passion for Christ.  If people look at our passion for God as "cult-like," think about how people viewed Jesus' disciples.  they were SO much more devoted to following him, they gave up everything they owned just to follow him on whim (when he first went around and got them).  some people may view our passion and obedience to Christ as cult like to the leaders, but they don't realize that the leaders have the same passion we do, but they are just in a situation to help encourage the passion and to help keep it focused on God and not other things.
 

i hope you read all of this, because it took awhile to write and i meant everyword of it.

[namaste]

i am a current member of gcm and have been raised pretty much as a "great commission kid," so you may think that my opinion is biased, but oh well.

I don't know that I'd say you're biased...but at the very least you're young an inexperienced.

First of all, not that Jesus said "[teach] them to obey EVERYTHING i have commanded you." So pretty much, when people are new to Christ, they need to be taught his commandments, so that's why we tell people what they should or should not be doing.

Telling someone what they should or should not be doing is not teaching.  Me telling you to capitalize certain words is not teaching.  Explaining the concepts behind proper American grammar, and showing/helping you to apply it to your writing is teaching.  Me screaming and yelling at you, being abusive, and coming up with silly, manipulative reasons why you should use impeccable grammar on internet forums, is not teaching.

Are you following me here?

Now, in this situation, with the leaders giving a lot of advice, there is an obvious possibility of a pastor getting big-headed and feeling more important than other, but we have a solution for that. we make sure that the churches have a plurality of leaders, in other words, more than one or two leaders that can keep each other in check and keep them level headed.

I went to a church that for many, many, many years had NO plurality of leadership.  In fact, I witnessed the elder/pastor of our church pitch a little hissy fit at a conference after some GC big-wig talked about the importance of plurality of leadership.

to go on the issue of us feeling "superior to other churches" we don't.

Do you recognize the irony in the fact that you claim you don't have a superiority complex, and then go onto cite specific examples of churches that your church is "better" than?  Consider this a lesson in irony.  See above comments on teaching versus preaching.

when it comes to treating dating as a sin, we don't teach that. if we did, it was a long time ago and those people just got it wrong.

That's right.  YOU don't tell them that it's a sin.  You direct them to read a book (_I Kissed Dating Goodbye_), where the author compounds precept upon precept in order to come up with a laughable argument that dating is inherently bad.

i think that the reason people date that dont plan on getting married is so that they have an excuse to fulfill any lust or sexual desires (including anything from kissing to sex).

Really?  As a married person, I thought people dated so that they could get to know potential spouses...seeing as how marriage is a serious, life-long commitment and all.

when i think about a relationship that i have with a guy, i first think, would i do this with my brother?

 :shock:

when it comes to discouragement of college, thats bull.

Are you calling me a liar?  Frankly, I can't really get all worked up over what some anonymous GC-kid thinks/says about me on the internet, but at least be honest about it.

the reason people go to leaders, or others, about this is so that they have some back up, because if God wants you to do something, he will make sure you know.

I've found tarot decks to be much more reliable indicators of what God wants than GCx leaders.  I find that if I pull the same card over, and over, and over, somebody's probably trying to tell me something.  OTOH, it could just mean the deck is stacked.  That sometimes happens when one card is ever-so-slightly smaller than the other cards in the deck.

the leaders don't really just go to random members and tell them to go to ukraine or something, people feel moved by God, "prayerfully consider" what they think God is telling them to do, and then talk to a leader or something about what they think God wants them to do, and the leaders will pray for awhile, and usually God will give you an idea about what he wants you to do. so if the leaders feel like God is telling them that also, then you should probably move to ukraine.

Really?  That's it?  I thought that before people got "the call" to go to Ukraine, they had to ask all their friends, their roommate, their small group leader, their home group leader, their pastor, 64,000 other random people, and finally, consult the Oracle at Delphi for a final seal of approval.

Come to think of it, it was pretty much that way for EVERYTHING I wanted to do while I was part of GCx.

but yeah these conferences are some the most moving things ever. you spend so much time with God, and especially while you are worshiping God, whether singing or praying or through your actions or whatever, the connection is so great and powerful because...

I find that I spend all my time with God, no matter where I am, or what I am doing, and that the connection between God and me is always great and powerful because He's God, and I'm not.

i personally love the great commission association, because everyone is so devoted to God and to fulfilling his commandments it's wonderful.

My husband once lived by all of the Levitical rules for an entire summer.  GC's devotion to fulfilling all of God's commandments sure is something....although i was probably thinking more insane than wonderful.

ETA: My husband says, "Oh, come on!  It was longer than that...probably a year and a half."

If people look at our passion for God as "cult-like," think about how people viewed Jesus' disciples.

Huh?  

some people may view our passion and obedience to Christ as cult like to the leaders, but they don't realize that the leaders have the same passion we do, but they are just in a situation to help encourage the passion and to help keep it focused on God and not other things.

 :lol:

i hope you read all of this, because it took awhile to write and i meant everyword of it.

FYI- for us old folks, consistent paragraph breaks would make this a much easier read.

[Jason Stauffacher]

mm,

You sound very young.  That's OK.  It took guts to write here and your time is highly appreciated. Add a few years of yelling-sermons, you will feel different.  Maybe not.  I cannot assume anything in life.  

A)  I would encourage you, mm, to try a different church, and listen to a different pastor for 2 months, and see a more grace-filled, Christ-honoring and Bible-sermon-centered NOT life-stories.

A possible pastor, his personal website:
http://www.christusvictorministries.org/main/

His sermon links: http://www.whchurch.org/content/page_173.htm

His name is Greg Boyd and is the most gracious Bible centered preacher I know.

B) mm, ask yourself why would a website like GCMwarning.com and this forum exists.  Why?  Mark Darling, a National Leader now, said more people leave this movement than stay.  There are reasons for that.

C)  mm, ask your GCM pastor face-to-face why people leave so much the GCM Movement.  You might be surpized at his answer.

D) mm, re-read the 1991 Statement of Weaknesss and ask your pastor for a copy.  They should be given when asked.  This letter covers your church's past.

E)  mm: It's okay to ask questions.  If not, you wouldn't be a free-agents children of Christ.

Your Friend in Christ NOT in GCM,

-Jason

P.S.  For those reading my note to mm, I am a huge fan of Greg Boyd, and my reason leaving Evergreen was mostly housed in the fact of Mark's sermon yelling, and extreme black-and-white thinking.  

P.S. #2: I wonder who is going to replace all the older leaders as Mark Darling said at FaithWalkers this year that he "cannot do this for another 30 years."

[puff of purple smoke]

The main two people who started the organization, Herschel Martindale and Dennis Clark (whom i know personally) saw that most churches in their day weren't accomplishing this and were just getting comfortable with their life and weren't making any effort to fulfill Jesus' commandment. That's why they started it, because they were strong Christians with a passion for God and his word.

This portion of what you wrote concerns me. As a "great commission kid," have you really been taught that Dennis Clark and Herschel Martindale founded the movement? Do you know who Jim McCotter is? If I may ask, how old are you?

[Linda]

Hi mm,

Thanks for taking the time to write this comment.

You wrote:

The main two people who started the organization, Herschel Martindale and Dennis Clark (whom i know personally) saw that most churches in their day weren't accomplishing this and were just getting comfortable with their life and weren't making any effort to fulfill Jesus' commandment.

As Puff mentioned, you left out one of the main founders, Jim McCotter. He has been out of the movement for 20 years, or so, so maybe that's why you haven't heard of him.

I agree, there are some churches that don't accomplish a lot, and there are some Christians who get "comfortable with their life", but I also know of a lot of churches who are doing great things for the Great Commission (the one in Matthew) and I know dozens of people, personally, who have been been on the mission field for over 20 years who aren't part of the Great Commission Movement, but nevertheless, have a heart for God and people.

When you think about your church as being the best church in the world, or the only church that cares about the Great Commission, it's called elitism. Fortunately, GCM apologized for being that way in a 1991 "Statement of Errors and Weaknesses" that they wrote. So, hopefully they still are not teaching that most Christians in other churches don't make an effort to tell others about Jesus.

Here's part of what they wrote in that statement:

The problem arises when one makes the subtle shift from believing that "this is the best church for me" to a conviction that "this is the best church, period."  We confess that this latter belief, though never, to the best of our knowl­edge, public­ly taught and probably only rarely expressed, infect­ed our churches for some time.

You also wrote:

So pretty much, when people are new to Christ, they need to be taught his commandments, so that's why we tell people what they should or should not be doing. Leaders are mush more mature Christians who have a thorough knowledge of the word and have studied the Bible and have done their best to interpret the parts of it that are a bit vague.

When people become Christians, a change happens inside them. Not only do they become acceptable to God, but the Holy Spirit comes to live in them (1 Cor. 6). They receive power through the Holy Spirit (Acts 1) and the Holy Spirit strengthens and encourages the church (Acts 9)

I agree that after someone becomes a Christian, they need to grow in their faith. First of all, we have the most important thing of all, the Word of God to guide us. Secondly, we have the Holy Spirit to help us understand what we read in the Bible and to work in our hearts.

The Bible tells us that God has given many gifts to the church (Ephesians 4, Romans 12 and others). In Ephesians, it says the role of the pastor is to equip the saints for works of service. So, the pastor has the important job of preaching the Word of God accurately so that the listening believers are ready to serve God (not just serve in their local church). The pastor's authority is to preach the Word. His authority is not to be the Holy Spirit to people and tell them what jobs to take, or where to live, or how many children to have. That is misuse of authority.

Here's an example. The police are in authority. If I am speeding and he pulls me over and gives me a ticket, he has a right to do that. If I am at home and he comes to my door and asks me to make him breakfast, I don't have to do that. His authority is limited. So, too, is the authority of a pastor. He can not go beyond what the Word says. His authority is spiritual, his authority is to preach the Word.

One other important thing to remember is that elders can be wrong. There are false teachers (I Peter) and elders can sin. It says in 1 Timothy 5:19 that those elders who sin are to be rebuked publicly. So, covering up an affair by an elder would be a violation of scripture. I really hope that Mark Darling's comment (as mentioned below) was just not very well thought out, because if it's true, if pastor's or the board ever covered up sin on the part of an elder, that is wrong.

You mention plurality of elders. That is a good thing. But did you know that some GCM churches don't have a plurality of elders? They are led by just one man (and maybe some guys he has chosen).

Also, my husband and I met with many pastors. The last pastor we met with before we left was Mark Darling. We discovered that while there is talk of accountability through plurality of elders, that if someone teaches something that is unbiblical, the other elders don't want to correct the elder who misspoke. One elder said that to do that would be to question the heart of that pastor. So, bad teaching is given a pass on the basis of not wanting to hurt the feelings of another pastor.

I mentioned that to Mark Darling and I even said, "It seems like a pastor could have an affair, and the plurality of elders thing could be used to cover for him and keep it from the congregation." His answer troubled me when he said, "I'm sure it's happened."

Now, I have no idea why a pastor would say something like that because that is a violation of the verse in 1 Timothy that says, "Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning."

You wrote:

If people look at our passion for God as "cult-like," think about how people viewed Jesus' disciples.

I don't ever view passion for God as cult like. I know (in the sense that they are friends and relatives who have been to my house) who have for many (like over 20) years lived in roach infested third world countries, preached in countries that are not friendly to the Gospel, lived away from extended family (in the days before the Internet), who have gotten parasites and malaria, and I don't think they are cult like. I think they love God.

What sometimes causes that word to be used is the idea of devotion to a movement of churches. There is only one real Church and all churches are part of that one.

We are to be devoted to one another and while that certainly starts at your home church, it doesn't end there.

[Valley Noir]

i am a current member of gcm and have been raised pretty much as a "great commission kid," so you may think that my opinion is biased, but oh well.

No problem.  We're all here speaking from our own experiences, and so to that extent we're all "biased".  Your experience is your experience; but others may see/have seen things diffferently.  What I notice from this site is that ex-GCM people from all over share experiences that have a remarkably familiar pattern.

 

the whole reason this organization was started was to follow the "great commission" which is stated in the Bible in Matthew 28:18-20.

Inter Varsity Press, a Christian publishing company, is in the midst of publishing a five-volume history of the British and American Evangelical movement.  The first book in the series is The Rise of Evangelicalism by Mark Noll.  My point is that GCx churches are but a small part of an evangelical movement that's been part of American culture from its beginnings; which is, in turn, a small part of what the universal church has been doing since Pentecost.

A little bit of perspective always helps keep us humble and our feet on the ground.

The main two people who started the organization, Herschel Martindale and Dennis Clark (whom i know personally)

Ever hear of Jim McCotter?  He had quite a bit to do with starting the organization.  The fact that you don't mention him is interesting to us who have problems with the way GCx tells its own history.

most churches in their day weren't accomplishing this and were just getting comfortable with their life and weren't making any effort to fulfill Jesus' commandment.

Um, don't you think that's a bit judgmental?  Don't you think it's possible that God accomplishes his work differently through different people and different churches?  I have no problem with McCotter, Clark and Martindale deciding that they wanted to do things differently from other Christian denominations.  On the other hand, I do think it's presumptuous to say that other Christian denominations weren't faithful to Jesus' commandments because they didn't do things the GCx way.

Personally, I found the GCx approach to the Great Commission to be very limited, and not effective for me or many people.  In fact, I know people for whom the GCx churches were a burden, not a help, in accomplishing God's purposes in their lives.  If you read some of what the other posters have written here, you may understand why.

First of all, not that Jesus said "[teach] them to obey EVERYTHING i have commanded you." So pretty much, when people are new to Christ, they need to be taught his commandments, so that's why we tell people what they should or should not be doing.

Christians always need to be taught about God and Jesus, be they 'new to Christ' or not.  However, we need to be careful to distinguish between what God commands and what each person must do to obey God.  Jesus made it clear that the Pharisees' outward obedience of the Law was deceptive, because the Pharisees used obedience to exercise power over the rest of the Jews for their own, selfish purposes.  Because of this, Jesus called them "whitewashed tombs".  Pretty severe, right?

Every Christian needs to be careful that he or she doesn't fall into the same trap.  We want to help others grow into mature Christians, not control what they do.  So we should teach each other God's commandments, but also give each other the freedom to live out obedience in our own lives.

What many people who post on this forum see is a lack of that freedom in the GCx movement.  Many of us experienced pressure from GCx elders and leaders to live as the elders and leaders saw fit, directing specific educational, financial, job and marital choices to serve the purposes of GCx.  This was true even when other choices didn't conflict with God's commandments.

Leaders are mush more mature Christians who have a thorough knowledge of the word and have studied the Bible and have done their best to interpret the parts of it that are a bit vague. since the leaders are mature, they are usually the ones who teach the younger (not necessarily age, but maturity in Christ) Christians what they should be doing

You need to have more perspective here.  GCx is a relatively new church/denomination, with relatively young leaders.  There's a tendency in the GCx to ignore other Christians' interpretations of the Bible, even when those interpretations are hundreds or thousands of years old, and the product of many, many godly scholars and pastors.  For example, Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin, John Wesley. . . the list goes on and on.

If GCx leaders want to claim authority over the lives of others from a 'thorough knowledge of the word', shouldn't they also submit themselves to the authority of those other Christians who came before them and had greater knowledge?  But they don't; instead, they criticize those predecessors for not following God's commandment regarding the Great Commission.  I have yet to read anything written by a GCx elder or leader that matches any of the teachers I mentioned above; yet they claim for themselves the right to judge those other teachers and Christian traditions insufficiently faithful.

If, on the other hand, GCx leaders claim that they teach the 'plain meaning' of the scriptures, why can't they trust each individual Christian to determine that meaning for themselves?

Do you see the problem here?

my father is a leader in my church and there are two other pastors right now and another person is being considered to be a leader. i know from his experience that the plurality of leaders works, because when one of them starts to talk or act in any way that makes them seem superior than others, the other two pastors will come in and tell him.

I'm sure your father intends to do the right thing.  I think most people do; but, like you've probably heard many times, we're all sinners.  Having a plurality of leaders may help to keep sin in check; but when the leaders get to choose each other, as they do in GCx, with little or no accountability to the members of the local congregation or to other Christians elsewhere, isn't it likely that the leaders will choose peope like themselves, with the same weaknesses and/or sins?  Would you choose someone as a leader when he or she disagreed with you about something you thought was important?  In that case, what happens if you're wrong about that important something?

when it comes to treating dating as a sin, we don't teach that. if we did, it was a long time ago and those people just got it wrong. we suggest that people should "date with a purpose," meaning that they should date only if they intend or are thinking about marriage as a possibility.

I've recently listened to a GCx elder teach at a 2006 GCx conference that dating was an inferior way to choose a mate.  I believe he used the analogy of a jammed wheel on a shopping cart causing the cart to swerve out of a straight line, with the shopping cart representing a believer's life, the straight line representing God's will for the believer's life and the jammed wheel representing a dating relationship.  Now, he may have not called dating a sin, and even said that it was permissible, but it was clear that "good" Christians wouldn't do it.  It's second best.

What bothers me is not so much that dating is discouraged.  It's GCx's apparently preferred alternative way to choose a mate: relying on the counsel of elders and leaders.   If you don't have the experience of dating a variety of people, and the elders and leaders get significant say in who you marry, that gives them a lot of control over you.  That's not healthy, either for you or them.  It's not a matter of being sexually promiscuous; it's a matter learning to have a close, exclusive relationship with someone of the opposite sex.  It's more difficult than it seems, and you have to learn by experience.

when it comes to discouragement of college, thats bull.

No, it's not.  In fact, I'm sure that my commitment to academic excellence was something that my GCx leaders didn't understand, since none of them had a similar commitment.  GCx doctrine sees everything as a means of accomplishing the Great Commission in GCx's own way.  If a person can't explain his or her studies as a way of serving GCx's mission, then it's presumed that you're "not right" with God and His purposes.  That leaves little space for loving God with your mind, which we as Christians are specifically commanded to do.

i think that what people could be referring to is the leaders, or others, telling people that if they feel like God is leading them to go elsewhere or do anything for him, then they should, whether they're in college, in a comfortable home or whatever, and they should be willing to drop everything they have for God.

I have no problem with people making sacrifices to serve God.  What bothers me is what motivates those sacrifices.  A person can encourage someone to serve God ("Hey, you're really good at ___________!") or a person can manipulate someone to serve God ("If you love God, you'll do _____________."  "If you're serious about your faith, you'll do _________")  What I've seen at GCx is too little of true encouragement, and too much manipulation.

the leaders don't really just go to random members and tell them to go to ukraine or something, people feel moved by God,

My experience was that people felt "moved by God" after they were told by elders and leaders how they should feel "moved by God".  In some circumstances, elders and leaders were specifically planning how to make a person feel "moved by God" without that person's knowledge.  That's dangerous, and I saw evil result from it.

i personally love the great commission association, because everyone is so devoted to God and to fulfilling his commandments it's wonderful.

I have seen good things in GCx.   Unfortunately, in my experience leaders were too willing to take "short cuts" to results they thought best by manipulating people.  When the manipulation was exposed, it deeply hurt the people who had been manipulated, with sometimes tragic results (divorce, mental illness, homelessness, alcoholism).  The people who pointed out this sin (and that's what it is) were excommunicated or shunned by other church members for "slander".

What I'd ask of you is to take my concerns seriously, not make the same mistakes yourself, and confront other people when they do these things.

It's O.K. to love GCA, just don't be blind about it.

[G_Prince]

Hi MM,

I too grew up in a GCM family, and it's always good to hear from someone else in the fraternity.   Thanks for your thoughts!

I'm glad you feel like the you have the world pretty well figured out. I know a few years ago I would likely have written pretty much what you just said. However, for me some things obviously changed.

I won't go into all the details of how I left GCx, but I will say that I went to faithwalkers, LT...etc. I had lots of friends and many spiritually charged experiences. However, I also knew deep down that something was wrong. I thought it was me. "I'm not good enough, I'm not doing enough, I sin too much, I'm not suitable for what God desires." Those were all thoughts that pestered me, and as hard as I tried I could never live up to what God wanted. I began to wish I was different, someone dynamic, a leader, someone with real spiritual gifts, but I was a nobody. I began to hate myself, and even hate God for making me such a tremendous failure as a Christian.  

Finally after a long tedious process of withdrawal from church I left all together. Many of the people I thought were friends didn't even notice I had gone. I guess I wasn't what they were looking for, wasn't spiritual enough. However, the truth began to clarify once I had left. It wasn't me or God that was messed up...it was this group. I didn't fit but it wasn't my fault. I understood that there is true freedom beyond the containing walls of the GCx life...the only life I had known. The world was beautiful, other Christians were beautiful, atheists were beautiful, Catholics were beautiful, we were all made in God's image. The world was brighter outside GCM.

I guess my only advice for you is that if you do have that little nagging voice that ticks away in your heart...the one that says you are not good enough, DONT LISTEN. It is a lie. God loves you as you are, you don't need to live up to ANYTHING or ANYONE. You can stay just as you are right now, at this moment, and God will love you all the same. It is a wonderful feeling.

Don't crumble to expectations. The expectations put on me by my family and my church only taught me to hate and distrust myself. Nothing, however, could be further from reality. Follow what is really inside you and don't let anyone's voice drown that out.

-Peace,
Gene

[theresearchpersona]

Dear MM,

Hi there. I'm also in GCM. I've been in it for several years; I'll just give you a little info as we as Christians are supposed to communicate, right?

First, I was studying heresies and lots of american "movements" and fads/materials when it all hit home with GCM itself; thing is, I'd always suspected things to be off...here I was a young little Christian and I was constantly tuning-out teachers as they twisted scripture. At first I attributed it to translations that weren't very literal...(please nobody be offended, but:) the Revised Version was a revision of the KJV which was more literal, and the ASV more than that: these were meant to be precise. Later the RSV was made but it treated scripture not only very liberally and broke connectedness between the covenants (testaments); it missed a lot of precision needed for sound preaching, and so it died among evangelicals though it was well-received amongst some groups; the NIV seemed to be an answer to it for being "liberal" by being conservative...but it was not only highly interpretative and paraphrasistic, but often off, misses key theological terms, is experimental, and loose: more than the RSV. The other reactionary version was the NASB: this one is very precise, though less than the ASV.

Thing was, I discovered that even looking through an NIV the teachers were constantly twisting scripture: emphasis would be placed on wrong things, and other parts were ignored, wholly wrenched, or explained-away; false definitions of slander and gossip were not only taught, but were what my siblings in Christ believed (because they learned it in GCM). Then as GCM desperately continued seeking why Christians were becoming luke-warm after college years, apathetic, or whatever, I began to really notice things.

First, I started sourcing teachings/principles/practices...not the Bible, and those sources are very good at twisting; I started looking-up authors quoted, quotes themselves...revisiting materials. What I found is a lack of confidence in God's Word, an emphasis on program and method, and a wholly unbiblical structure of the Church that pastors and thinkers who have proved themselves by their own words to be heretical came up with.

Pastors would also not EVER correct one another, except on occassion themselves, for any of it: and if twisting happened it was "I know their heart" type answers...trouble is it says only God knows a man's heart, and Jesus warns us that we'll know false teachers by their teaching; the Apostles warns us of men who will deceived and continue to be deceived. GCM was and is teaching people to be a friend to the world, "relevant", to speak like they do, and be "cool"; the NT says Christians DON'T talk like the world, and that if we did it would listen to us; the Church has also taught this from the beginning; and the NT warns us that "friendship with the world is enmity with God".

There's a lot more, but obviously, as you might imagine, where I see error and twisting I'm concerned. If you saw it, wouldn't you be? These are brothers and sisters in Christ, not people to just say "see ya'" when it gets tough on me. Right?

I HOPE I might endure and stay for a time to try and work things out...not for me, but stopping error; given the history and that many many people even at my Church seem to have tried the same already the odds (by looking at that) are that I'll get labeled divisive (though the church policy and teaching on that actually twists scriptures, and cuts some off), a slanderer, a couple other things...there may be a meeting or two behind my back, and then I'd likely be shunned and forgotten; however the Word says with God all things are possible...yet we're also not to associate with those who propagate error, so I need be timely (I hope) for everyone's sake, as soon as I can/may.

A lot of the things are deep-rooted, so I have no idea exactly what to do except for some things from the Bible...yet I need to know how exactly to do them too: and hope to get advice from older and wiser brethren. And it's especially hard as I listen to really nice likable pastors and can pick-out frank heresy and false teaching.

Also, on dating: do hold to your convictions. Personally a lot of our society's "dating" is anti-thetical to what Christians taught and/or allowed in times passed, and to what's biblical. I DO believe we should (when we're able) get to know those of the opposite sex around us without favoritism, and yet I have seen the dilemna others do where the leadership even by the particular way and in the doctrines they are trained end-up controlling people in all this. It IS good to get advice...and yet it seems they try to pair DT leaders etc. and it's interesting to me that I've had an older brother telling me how deceived I was about a young woman who'd look at me and stare me in the eyes minute after minute, or hush-up when I'm around, or touch-feet under the table and just sit there --something I honestly would've preferred not to happen...it's really hard on a guy to be unable to marry someone yet but be in love with them...though I don't think the GCM method of trying to teach people not to fall in love with the hope of devoting life to the GC is tolerable: frankly Paul wrote "because of sin let every one ..." remember? I think a lot of people also end up struggling so that they think if they wholly deny others their heart (in one form or another) that that is the way they can guard their heart: what it ends up doing is denying them siblingship: we must love one another, and yes people do fall in love with one another.

Now personally I really liked books on courtship vs. dating: I actually read "boy meets girl" though I have "I Kissed Dating Goodbye". I thought it was a great book...though I think I should re-review it after having more time in practicing discernment and reading the Word.

And mm, I hope you don't just take-off...thank you for coming and writing to the people here. I think that there is stuff here that you'd disagree with (I do) and some that you'd agree with; but I haven't really seen many people who appear to want simply to attack/slander anyone.