My understanding of the Great (C)ommission:

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[Linda]

Rick Whitney:
“I recently heard a brother comment on our church association’s recent history. He used the phrase, “Our organizational wilderness . . . ”  He was reflecting on some of the changes that we have been wrestling with as a church movement.  I understand what he means.     We have gone through changes and it seems like there is no end to the number of Great Commission, “GC acronyms”, that we can come up with.  I understand his humor and maybe his partial frustration. But honestly, nothing has changed.  We are still the same group of men and our bond remains strong. We have lost a few and yes, it hurts and yes, there have been challenges.  All movements of God have lost men.  Even our Lord lost a few.
But nothing has really changed.”

[Boggs]

Hey, I sat through a very similar sermon from Rick at the 2008 faithwalkers! His message of planting your flag and dying with a GC church was very clear.

[Rebel in a Good Way]

Even our Lord lost a few...is he referring to Judas?

[Linda]

Rick Whitney quote (Not to worry, it's perfectly normal for a pastor and board member of a national board of a church association to give tips to people on how to "cross over in their heart and join us". Happens all the time.)

"Joining the Ranks
   If someone is going to “Cross over” in their heart and join us, the steps are these.  In our local churches, in our regions, within our movement.  One must:
   1.  Show up!  And keep showing up.
   2.  Roll up your sleeves and start serving.
   3.  Begin to be faithful in sharing your time, money, home and resources.
   4.  Begin to process and understand what our Core Values are.
   5.  Hold to our values, and begin to speak up for them.  Own the vision.
   6.  And say, “This is my family and I will fight for it.”

   This is how someone joins our ranks in a local church.  This is how someone joins our regions.  This is how someone joins our GCC movement.  The steps are exactly the same.  This process is what we are looking for in our local church and it is what we are looking for across this movement of churches."  

[Differentstrokes]

Hey, I sat through a very similar sermon from Rick at the 2008 faithwalkers! His message of planting your flag and dying with a GC church was very clear.

I was there for that one too! Afterwards when we had our "tie downs" my small group prayed the Lord would weed out any who weren't completely committed to the church

[Linda]

Sick, this kind of small group discussion.

I don't care how dysfunctional anybody's background is, they are not going to be helped by sitting in a small group sharing private, intimate stuff that belong only in the bedroom with husband and wife.  I am sure everyone felt pretty uncomfortable, at least when they thought about it later.  I am sure glad I never participated in a small group like that, and feel bad for anyone who was there and thought they needed to share what should be completely private information.

My husband was given birth control advice by Mark Darling.  He thought we had enough kids already and that we would be more effective for the gospel if we didn't traipse into church with too many kids and always that blasted diaper bag slung over my shoulder.  Bad testimony.  I did not appreciate this intrusive advice, by the way. It was totally none of his business.

The topic of GCx leaders telling people to not have children has been on my mind lately and I was reminded of GodisFaithful's story. I actually know of one other GCLI couple who wanted a third child and was told not to have one because it would hamper the dad's ministry. I heard this first hand from the wife who said it through tears because she wanted another child.

You know what that is? That is evil. That's what that is.

I understand that now many have gone the more children the better route, but 20 years ago, that was not the advice some were given from the top dogs.

[Huldah]

The topic of GCx leaders telling people to not have children has been on my mind lately and I was reminded of GodisFaithful's story. I actually know of one other GCLI couple who wanted a third child and was told not to have one because it would hamper the dad's ministry. I heard this first hand from the wife who said it through tears because she wanted another child.

You know what that is? That is evil. That's what that is.

I understand that now many have gone the more children the better route, but 20 years ago, that was not the advice some were given from the top dogs.

Horrible.

But even twenty years ago, many of the leaders were already having large families. The Bovenmeyers have seven children, as do the Whitneys. The Hoplers have eight. The Clarks have nine. All this information is publicly available through the GCC Board web page: http://gccweb.org/about/gcc-board/.

So what they told this young couple was horrible. Just horrible. This wasn't about what was best for "ministry". This was a power play. This was about asserting dominance over that couple, for reasons that couldn't possibly have had anything to do with glorifying God.

Just when I think I'm done being shocked by things that happened in that movement, something like this comes along.

[Linda]

But even twenty years ago, many of the leaders were already having large families. The Bovenmeyers have seven children, as do the Whitneys. The Hoplers have eight. The Clarks have nine. All this information is publicly available through the GCC Board web page: http://gccweb.org/about/gcc-board/.

It seems like the 70's and 80's were when the big families were happening. McCotter had a bunch, as well.

In the 1990's and early 2000s there was apparently a push to have fewer children, but perhaps this was just an ECC thing among GCLI families.

The thing is if you are a woman in your late 30s you don't get a redo on having another child 10 or 15 years later when you realize your "leader" interfered in your life in an inappropriate and big way in the name of ministry and being "winsome".

It would be helpful to hear first hand stories of people who were encouraged to have no more children.