New GCC Website

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[puff of purple smoke]

http://www.gccweb.org/

Hadn't been to the GCC website in a while, looks like they put up a new one.

[Genevieve]

Interesting. It looks like they're advertising a 2.5% divorce rate from their homepage.

Here's the first part of the article:

"Recently, we did an internal poll with the pastors of Great Commission Churches on the subject of divorce. The pastors were asked to count the number of committed member couples that were part of their church in the past 10 years--together with the number of these couples who have since gotten divorced. (If a couple left the church and got divorced later, they were included in these statistics.) Based on the responses to these questions, it was determined that the divorce rate in Great Commission churches of committed member couples in the last 10 years has been 2.5%."

Can that be accurate? Or perhaps the wiggle room is in the "committed member couples"?

[Genevieve]

Oh, here are the reasons they give for the low divorce rate:

1. "The grace of Jesus Christ." We're just lucky!
2. "A heart devotion to obey the Scriptures" What does "heart devotion" mean? I've never heard that before.
3. "A commitment to love and unity as a church." Hm, not seeing the connection here...The church can replace the love and unity you're missing with your spouse?
4. "A Great Commission church vision." Whaa? You're so busy trying to convert the world that you don't notice your marriage sucks?
5. "A resolve among couples not to get divorced." Ah! So *that's* what everyone else is missing! They just need to not want to get divorced!

Ok, so I know this was extra snarky, but it's just funny that they're advertising a low divorce rate (it kind of looks like an interest rate on the website). And then they're trying to come up with reasons for it without saying, "Divorce is really, really, really looked down on around here, so if you want to stay in the 'in' crowd, stick it out!"

Cheers!

[lone gone]

I'd question the results.   A simple head count isn't that hard, nor is it that accurate.   

 Google search for "divorce rates among Christians" and  you'll find all kinds of info,  including the fact that divorce is less common among agnostics than Christians.   

 I'd say this,  the more marriages the more divorces. One reason that agnostics don't divorce is because they don't get married.

 I'd also point out that many GCC churches don't have a marriage culture. It is very accepted that you remain single to be unencumbered for the Gospel.
Fewer marriages, fewer divorces.

[puff of purple smoke]

The pastors were asked to count the number of committed member couples that were part of their church in the past 10 years--together with the number of these couples who have since gotten divorced.

Perhaps the answer is in the phrase "committed member couples." This says to me that the pastors are not simply including every member of their church for the "statistics", but only the ones they view as "committed." If a pastors deems you a "committed member" of GC, we all know that that means. You are a lifer. You believe GC is the best and you do what the pastor tells you. We know how much they harp on obedience to authority. No GC pastor will ever tell any "committed" GC person to get divorced, so it is unlikely "committed" couple would get divorced. Wouldn't other churches have remarkably low divorce rates if the only people included in their statistics were the "committed" ones as deemed by the pastors?

GC's never been very good at being honest about itself. Perhaps they should hire a third-party to do a statistical report on members of their churches, then they might have some credibility. For some reason I doubt this will ever happen.

[EverAStudent]

Gen, the statistics as they stated them are misleading at best.  Here is why.  

1) They present the divorce number (2.5%) as the number of divorces during the past 10 years.  That is a flat count and not a rate.  It is meaningless.

To put this another way, the US does NOT see 50% of all married people divorced each year.  No.  The US sees 50% of all marriages END in divorce, often after surviving a lifetime (20 years, 30 years, 60 years...).  So the divorce RATE is 50% when measured over a lifetime and across all marriages.  What GC published is not a rate and is therefore meaningless for comparison purposes.

2) They are measuring only the "committed member couples" and not their general population.  Again, their measurement becomes meaningless.

3) Finally, they appear to only be counting those who got a divorce AFTER arriving at the GC church.  I know of no other church that would only acknowledge a divorce if it happened only after the  person joined.  In our church, at present, about half the attendees who are over 20 years old are divorced (not a formal count but via anecdotal evidences), however, the vast majority of those divorces happened before coming to the church and getting saved.

Well praise the Lord that the socially shipwrecked and the divorced have other churches to which to go to be saved and in which to grow in the Lord since it seems GC does not welcome them!

[bothered]

It reminds me of a sermon I hard Mark Darling give, probably seven years ago, where he talked about how divorces in GCM were so low or something like that and it seemed like a way to try and validate GCM in some way.

Another point worth noting...

and as some of you have already touched on, is that many of GCx churches are more like college-outreach/focus para-churches. In those specific churches all you have is young college students who don't get married while they are involved with GCM.

You also bring about a good point about membership too.

I personally think it is odd that anyone would be impressed by an organization that would do their own "poll," overseen by people in GCM, about a relatively small number of people, inside an organization that begs for issues related to membership, divorce, polls, accurate, etc. etc. to be qualified.

[Genevieve]

Ah, yes, good points about the statistics. I had missed the "in the past 10 years" part. I agree that it's a subjective, unreliable poll when you're calling pastors and asking them to remember who's been divorced of the "committed members." There's a lot that can go wrong there!

[wastedyearsthere]

And what is the statistics of those "committed members" in unhappy marriages?  Ones that were pressured to marry partners they wouldn't have picked? 

If you were in an unhappy marriage at GCC -- wouldn't you want to find another church before divorcing?  I would think so!

Faulty statistics and promising good marriages if you stay with GCC in my opinion.

[lone gone]

Since some want a count of unhappy marriages in GCC,  can you estimate that percentage by using your own recollections or anecdotal evidence? Would 50% of the marriages be happy or unhappy?

Can you apply that to your own current church? I look around at the 300 people I worship with and I have no idea what the happiness level in their marriage is. 

Marriage is HARD to do, and it is my experience that sometimes I am happy in my marriage and sometimes I am not.

[G_Prince]

"our highly transparent poll whose methods we don't reveal has found that only 4% of our committed members have been incarcerated and of those 4%, none for longer then a 15 year sentence. Likewise, only 27 total "active" teenagers received DOI's last year and only 3.8% engaged in premarital sex. 3.2% of our congregation were smokers last year, but 1.8% successfully quit while another 1% indicated a "serious commitment" to quitting. 3.1% of our committed male members visited strip clubs last year, but 1.2% of these visits were evangelism based. In short we invite you to attend our church were your chances of doing something stupid are much lower than the church down the street."       

[Genevieve]

Oh, Gene, that's hilarious! And so true.

[puff of purple smoke]

This whole thing is basically GC's way of saying "We are better than other churches" without coming right out and saying it directly.

[calgal]

Too funny ...

I separated from my husband at the time ... 10 years as a "lifer" and was excommunicated before I could even get a divorce! Ha!  I can't imagine two lifers getting divorced and both staying in the church ... there will be blame placed on one party.  Period.

Cal gal