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Author Topic: Parenting at GCC churches  (Read 43674 times)
wastedyearsthere
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« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2008, 11:36:10 am »

I remember them sharing that kids needed to obey

quickly
quietly
completely

Talk about ridiculous standards!!!  I was spanking my high strung/willed baby daughter ALL the time for her first 4 years.  It was too much.  They had no other modes of discipline to add to this tool box.

I remember an Elders wife saying that if two of her children were acting out and if she didn't know which one started it both children got spanked because the other child was responsible as well to keep the other child from acting out!!

I have a friend who was blamed for her kids rebellious behaviors.  They were strong Christian parents.  They were told they didn't spank enough.  

One of the elders pretty much told me that if you do "the right GCC methods" that kids won't rebel and will go on to be strong Christians.   I challenged him as far as free will.  After all Adam and Eve had the perfect Parent and they rebelled.....  

Cookie cutter Chrisianity is what I call it!  Simplify everything to a system and then life works out the way you want.  When there are problems of course you are to blame!
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wastedyearsthere
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« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2008, 11:52:15 am »

I remember the 4th C/Q they used when disciplining children.

They are to obey:

quickly
quietly
cheerfully
completely

I wonder if this goes for the adult church members as well??  Tongue
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Linda
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« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2008, 01:34:43 pm »

I can hear it now, the 4 C/Q song...quickly, quietly, cheerfully, completely, la, la, la....
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lone gone
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« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2008, 02:07:02 pm »

Guidelines for spanking in the Ames Church were from a pamphlet that circulated among all the parents. I forget the name of it right now but I may still have it in a box someplace in my attic. Jim McCotter had nothing to do with writing it nor did he promote it. His wife Barb had more to say about it to our wives than anyone.

The gist of the pamphlet was that you spanked the child until they cried tears, that you did not spank in anger, but rather in a calm rational manner. That you explained what you were spanking for, that it was immediatly connected with the wrongdoing( do delayed punishment), and that AS SOON as the child was weeping, you stopped and comforted them, letting them know exactly why they were being spanked.

It was supposed to reflect the same love as church discipline.

I am not saying it was right, but I did follow it until my kids were around 7 years of age. They are now 33 and 30. Neither one are violent or combative. Both acted out in college after they left the house but neither one of them hate their parents nor are bitter for how they were treated.

If I find the pamphlet, you can be sure I'll post the name and author's name as well.
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lone gone
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« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2008, 02:44:00 pm »

I can't put my hands on the pamphlet... I must have thrown it during my move here to Pa. I think it was named Dare to Discipline. I did a search and found that James Dobson wrote a book by that name in 1976, and it was pro-spanking. The timeline is about right. My son was born in 1975, my daughter in 78. We'd have been reading about child discipline around then.

The odd thing that I remember was one verse in scripture where children were spposed to obey without disputing.   I can remember my son lisping out his apology to us after a spanking for 'Sputing with us. I think it sad how this disputing issue turns out to be of immense importance to the GC churches.
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steelgirl
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« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2008, 04:42:10 pm »

If I would have known this about GCM, I might not have spent four yrs there.  It makes me sad that basically good Christian parents ended up being brainwashed to spank for everything.

I knew somebody who grew up in a GCM church.  I don't know how this person can still be active with family in GCM after hearing that she came from an abusive home.  Her parents must have been brainwashed.  She even claims she came from a Christian home but one rather dysfunctional and I wonder if the church played some part in why she went through some stuff.
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wastedyearsthere
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« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2008, 04:50:40 pm »

I doubt it was "Dare to Discipline" by James Dobson.  I was told he was not to be trusted because he graduated from a secular college!!!  They didn't even want me listening to his radio broadcasts!

I doubt that most of the children raised would think their background was abusive.  I think they are brainwashed to think this was normal Christian upbringing.
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theresearchpersona
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« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2008, 11:14:23 pm »

Quote from: "steelgirl"
Then again my discipler/mentor wondered why I got the liberal arts degree I did despite the fact she barely made it through high school.


It is not uncommon, in contemporary times or historically, for the uneducated to denigrate education, and advocate minimal studies.

Then again, it's also not uncommon for the educated to denigrate education, while advocating intense study.
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theresearchpersona
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« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2008, 11:44:04 pm »

Quote from: "wastedyearsthere"
I doubt it was "Dare to Discipline" by James Dobson.  I was told he was not to be trusted because he graduated from a secular college!!!  They didn't even want me listening to his radio broadcasts!


Nowadays they bite FOF's stuff hook line and sinker, though; this is unfortunate: I could give many reasons, but one will suffice: just recently FOF published Glen Beck's "Christian" testimony in one of their monthlies. Glen Beck is an LDS Mormon.

Focus on the Family is itself a rag, lots of psych and little (if any) good theology; it seeks to be overly accommodating and aims after worldly goals, not true edification of the Churches: as its constant compromising evidences. Frankly, the purpose of the Church is not to produce loving, quaint, little families and happy smiles for a better moral society; it is to stand as the pillar of truth and glorify God in spotlessness, publishing His word and truth and standing thereon unashamedly, unmixed, and without flinching. It is for the worship of God, not for us to try creating a better world. Mormons, Muslims, Buddhists, New Agers, etc. can change lives and create flourishing, moral, happy societies; works of the flesh; they cannot, however, testify to the power of God for salvation from sin and death, and the wrath of God; from delusion and darkness.

It's why I like, but hate, psychology. Psych seeks to discover ways to produce desirable outcomes in people through manipulation, and then depending on the results, employ those practices; this isn't all bad (it's the same thing as pushing buttons, or comforting those we love), but is when it's for bypassing the intellect and reason (it is sooooo easy to manipulate people with choice words and techniques); if someone was angry, for instance, though I really needed to talk with them, I might seek to assuage their anger, and then when they're capacity is recovered, to talk with them: but sooo many wish by cleverness to extract outcomes: like evangelical mantras such as "Lord/Jesus come into my life".

An example of how irrelevant the gospel is to changing lives and making better society, etc.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USpeolBTKIo

That's the guy who's "Christian" testimony was published on FOF, by the way. The things that separates Christian change and all else is...truth; and the substance of that truth; and that the change is not only spiritual, but a spiritual change on truth that's by the Holy Spirit, and not other spirits.

Anyway, back on topic: they were that serious about bruising kids?

[For Sam's sake, being a psychologist himself, I want to clarify: I'm not all against psych, it can offer insight, etc.: but one cannot build Christian doctrine and practice upon it, especially when that discipline is often so opposed to what is Scriptural. In itself it is disinterested in moral points, principles, truth, etc., but is concerned with outcomes; it is foreign, however, to preaching the gospel and teaching Christ's doctrine, in all of Scripture.]
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Cossette729
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« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2009, 11:10:58 pm »

I was definitely abused during my family's involvement with our GCx church--and with the full knowledge of the pastors and other church leadership.  I was a teenager at the time, and when I turned to the church for help they simply reported my "rebellion" to my abusive stepfather, leaving me vulnerable to further abuse at his hands.  It seemed that even at age sixteen I was supposed to submit to the rod, even when the "rod" took the form of a belt or a kick to the ribs, and even when I had no idea what I'd done.  Evidently, the leaders were not as concerned with my stepfather's abusive tendencies as they were with my family's submission to his will.  (Note that when I say my family, I mean my mother and myself specifically.)
My mom's account of our experience can be found here.
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2009, 09:06:43 am »

I am so sorry that happened to you.  I believe that the "umbrella of authority" emphasis can hide abuse.  I'm especially disturbed by the involvement of pastors in supporting your stepfather.  That is very wrong and shows yet again the absolutely ridiculous nature of putting unprepared men in authority over the lives of people (including defenseless children). 
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« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2009, 08:52:30 pm »

this is Mark Darling website on parenting; Jeromy did the IT work on it for dear ole' dad.

http://www.gettingyourfamilytomars.com/
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steelgirl
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« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2010, 10:42:49 pm »

I also found this excerpt in one of the documents Larry sent me, looks like it was written in the mid 70's:
Quote
While babysitting for an elder in the "Mc Cotter Movement", his wifeexpressed to me her great joy that "saints" would babysit in case the child ever needed his diapers changed. Afterall, someone "of the world" would believe child abuse was taking place when they'd discover the bruises and welts on the baby's bottom and thighs. But those of us who personally knew the elder's character and knew the fact that "loving chirisian discipline" was taking place would not be worried ! The rea-sons for the welts and bruises is due to the practice uses from Larry's Rod and Bod book. A parent would take their child of 6 months to 6 years of age from a 2 hour worship service if the child became cranky. They would then hit their child with their rod approx. 10-20 times then stop for 5 seconds. If the child kept "expressing their rebellion" through crying, they'd repeat the process for 3-5 times until the child submitted to the authority of the parents with the proper attitude and sobs of repentance.
This is some scary stuff.
This makes me sad.  This is not of God.  It is God's word being twisted for what. Children under the age of 18 mos shouldnot be spanked.  I hope that justice was served by reporting some people to authorities.  This is wrong.
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steelgirl
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« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2010, 10:44:15 pm »

I have a friend who was charged with child abuse from spanking their infant.  The parents turned the man in.  The GCC church was under investigation since they were taking directions on child raising from the  church.

It seems that spanking was their answer for all discipline with children.  

I think my oldest daughter needs some therapy because of our over spanking coming from teaching and direction from that church.

It is sad but you saw the error of your ways.
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steelgirl
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« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2010, 10:47:02 pm »

Wasted years, she's not the only one, bless all of you.  We are all one this journey together aren't we.  Even with my children who were very young when we left, I had to reattach and rebond with them the right way.  I had learned that children fit into the family not the family fitting to the child.  This was played out in an extreme way where I thought that my kids weren't even supposed to ask for anything practically.

I probably seem very permissive or indulgent now, but it is incredibly important to me that my children KNOW I am there to meet their needs.  

It's complicated, isn't it.  And it's amazing how group think, mob psychology, and brain washing as well as peer pressure and dominating relationships can make you do things you would never think you were capable of.  I'm speaking not in regards to myself, but in regards to some loving kind people who have basically abused their children out of these motivations.  How sad.  And when will it end?

When was this goinhgon?

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JesusFacePalm
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« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2019, 12:49:58 pm »

I remember the 4th C/Q they used when disciplining children.

They are to obey:

quickly
quietly
cheerfully
completely

I wonder if this goes for the adult church members as well??  Tongue

My wife grew up in a GCM familiy from Ames that followed this and I suspect is the root of her and her siblings anxiety.   When I left the faith, under the direction of Her Family/Pastors from there, she ended up moving my young children a few hours away from me to there against my will and now my kids are in the same house hold with the same "Papa and Nana" who passed on this ridiculous control method.   
Ironically, they are using a lie that I was abusive to remove my kids from "the nonbeliever"  and take control.   I have months of emails of them discussing her dads' plan to move them and her dad asked her to list my abuse items and she replied:  "one of the phrases he says to the girls is "your mom drives me nuts" and he suggest ridiculous things as not going to church every Sunday and possibly not homeschooling anymore"   

My 10 year old just told me a few weeks ago she has been consistently spanked on "fish night" because she hates it and refuses to eat it.  But because they have the 4 C/Q montra, she gets spanks every fish night because she refuses. 

I told her never to spank our kids again for disobedience and for my daughters to tell me and I will quickly report.   
Thankfully it's been at least 6 weeks and the spankings have stopped according to my daughter.

Not everything needs to stay in the Family Tree.   
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Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2019, 09:45:40 am »

Spanking because your child didn’t want to eat certain foods!  Punishing for personal choices that have nothing to do with wrongdoing is harmful to their necessary confidence.  I may have crossed the line with my child by being too insistent they do trivial things my way and I very much regret that now, but by the grace of God I didn’t spank them for it.  

I’m glad you’re standing up for your children.
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For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Wingless_Butterfly
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« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2020, 06:38:42 am »

At the church I went to, the source material seemed to be "To Train Up A Child." One of the pastor's wives gave me the book as a gift when I got pregnant, but we've never even opened it.

The scariest thing I've heard when it comes to discipline actually has little to do with the physical spanking. I once heard a mom advise a group of us to not stop until we "break their spirit."

:|

Everyone there has a really skewed and light view of discipline. It was a running joke in one family that a dad used to "discipline" so hard he'd sometimes break the item he was disciplining with.

Ha.
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JesusFacePalm
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« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2021, 08:59:06 am »

We finally made it through court and all that stuff, but I found it convenient whenever spanking was a topic on email exhanges, the words "lovingly guide" was always the term and never what it actually was "HITTING"   

Convenient phrasing to justify your self righteousness is always amazing to me
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Huldah
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« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2021, 09:16:28 am »

I hope the court made the right decision for your kids. Spanking a kid for refusing to eat fish seems like a travesty of the whole idea of discipline.

The non-GC church I was part of when my kids were small put a huge emphasis on the importance of spanking. Looking back all these years later, I see the damage we did, and I wonder how I could have been so misled. I won't go so far as to say that all spanking is wrong, but I'm no longer confident that the verses used in support of it are correctly translated or interpreted.

I hope your kids are doing well.
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