Personal Life? What's that?

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[The Clone]

I really think that the church does not need to intrude in personal life unless they are asked. You call the pastor/priest when you need to talk about your sex life… the pastor doesn’t need to come to you. That’s inappropriate and offensive.

[Angry]

amen.

[randomous]

Paul seemed to take a different view.

[nateswinton]

It's fascinating to me that you take that stance while displaying my private email address on your own profile - just to be annoying.  

Should I start listing my name as Jason Stauffacher and post pics of you all over these forums?  How old are you?

[Angry]

Clone,

Something must have rubbed you the wrong way this past weekend.  You lit up the forums like a Christmas tree.

If you had a recent bad experience with the gc* group, please expound.  We love a good story.

Angry

ps - you probably should drop the nate e-mail thing from your tag.

[nateswinton]

It's also fascinating the depth of grace that Jason is getting here, compared to the amount of grace that anyone not disavowing GC gets.  God does not show favoritism.

[puff of purple smoke]

It's also fascinating the depth of grace that Jason is getting here, compared to the amount of grace that anyone not disavowing GC gets.  God does not show favoritism.

He's acting like a sod, sure, but he's not doing anything harmful. I think he was just trying to be funny (by making you the "clone"), something which confused people but as far as I could tell was supposed to be a joke. It's not like he's pretending to be a researcher and using his fake identity to support his arguments!

FYI, I was the one that sent him a private message and told him to change his picture because it was confusing people.

[Linda]

compared to the amount of grace that anyone not disavowing GC gets

I don't understand what this means.

[nateswinton]

I mean if I came on to these boards and started poking fun at puff, or you, Linda, posting your personal information and had a pic of you in my profile, started up half a dozen topics randomly, and started acting like angry said, "a sod" - would everyone just kinda be like "oh, I think Nate just had a bad day"?

Especially if I started pushing a personal agenda?  What if I had an email list of all the decommissioned folks, and started mass-emailing them information about the gcmwarning site and used sensational language about unethical practices?  What if I tried to create a critical wikipedia article about the founder of GCMWarning?

I list all of these things because *someone* has recently mass-emailed all the GCM staff, gotten banned from Wikipedia for vandalism and ha been going off on these forums about all these unethical and bad practices that GCM has committed.

Oh, but he must have just had a bad day.  It must be GCM's fault, for making him act like this.

[Linda]

Especially if I started pushing a personal agenda? What if I had an email list of all the decommissioned folks, and started mass-emailing them information about the gcmwarning site and used sensational language about unethical practices? What if I tried to create a critical wikipedia article about the founder of GCMWarning?

I list all of these things because *someone* has recently mass-emailed all the GCM staff, gotten banned from Wikipedia for vandalism and ha been going off on these forums about all these unethical and bad practices that GCM has committed.

How would people commenting here know about any of this stuff you mentioned? Are you saying this was done by The Clone?

I did notice your photo started showing up on his posts and thought that was unusual and wondered what was going on.

The thing I hope you realize is that the administrators of this blog have been very generous in allowing people involved in GCM, including current GCM pastors to post here and criticize the blog.

Personally, I think that shows great grace on the part of those who founded and currently run this blog.

What Angry said was this:

Something must have rubbed you the wrong way this past weekend. You lit up the forums like a Christmas tree.

If you had a recent bad experience with the gc* group, please expound. We love a good story.

That is different than merely saying someone had a bad day and brushing things off.

You have made a lot of assumptions here involving a lot of people. Remember, we don't know each other and we don't all have the same experience. (For example, not being on the gcm leadership mailing list, how could I possibly know anything about a mass mailing?)That's all I'm trying to say.

Am I missing something?

[nateswinton]

Yes, Clone did the mass-mailing.  Yes, he put my pic as his profile pic.  Yes, he listed my personal email address as his "location".

Yes, I realize that I don't have the home-team advantage here, I guess I was just hoping that you guys would like to know what he's up to, and might reign him in, instead of asking for a juicy story or defending him.

Like I said in the other thread, the fanatics outside GCM are just as hurtful to the group as the ones inside.  If you honestly want to see things get better, guys, please work with me to control the ex-members, and I'll continue to work to keep things reasonable on my side.

I'm not asking you all to say nice things about GC or anything.  Just take a deep breath and try not to act outrageous.  It helps to preserve the "us vs. them" mentality in here.[/i]

[Linda]

I don't have the home-team advantage here

As far as I'm concerned, there is no "home team" here. This is a blog with a bunch of people making comments about their experience with GCM. I don't know most of the people commenting here. I don't know you, I don't know The Clone.

Perhaps you think this is an "organized" bunch. We are only organized, as far as I know, in the sense that we all have attended a GCM church at one time and we post comments here, now and then.

I have no desire to try to control the behavior of anyone posting here (it's not my business) and, frankly, no one can control the comments of others. The thing about blogs is that anyone can post anything they want. This is a free exchange of ideas.

Also, I do agree, irrational behavior doesn't help much. But, neither does ad hominem attack. You can't say that because someone who left a GCM church sent a mass mailing out that seemed outrageous that all people who have left a GCM church and speak out about it are not to be listened to or believed.

instead of asking for a juicy story or defending him

The way this request came across to me was that Angry (and many of us) were noticing a sudden explosion of posts from The Clone and were wondering if something had recently happened.

[nateswinton]

The thing I hope you realize is that the administrators of this blog have been very generous in allowing people involved in GCM, including current GCM pastors to post here and criticize the blog.

This is what I meant when I said "home team".

But, neither does ad hominem attack.

I'm not making an ad hominem, I'm saying that behavior like Clone's leaves all of you open for ad hominem attacks.

The feeling you have right now, Linda - that feeling of "Not me, don't group me with him!" - that's how I feel when people bash GCM all the time here.  I know you aren't making ad hominem attacks at GCM, and I'm not making them at anyone here.  I'm speaking specifically about Clone.

I guess that's fine if no one here will even say anything to him.  Just don't freak out next time some GCM pastor says that the "GCMWarning folks are all fanatics".  Next time that happens, just think about what kind of interactions that pastor has probably had with folks like "Clone" lately.  It won't seem so weird anymore.

[puff of purple smoke]

Yes, I realize that I don't have the home-team advantage here, I guess I was just hoping that you guys would like to know what he's up to, and might reign him in, instead of asking for a juicy story or defending him.

There have been numerous times in the history of de-comm when I or others have said, the people emailing GCM staffers/posting comments on current GCers blogs/etc., please stop. Remember when someone posted on the link to decomm, along with mean comments (in that Caleb guy's blog) and I wrote a long rant about how that didn't help anything and apologized on his behalf? For something I didn't even do. As an administrator I've gone to great lengths to explain why this sort of behavior isn't helpful, but the bottom line is I can't stop people if they don't want to, and I can't even prove who is doing it.

If The Clone is mailing staffers, then that goes against what he knows the wishes of most of us posting here are. In fact, I specifically told him recently, if he was doing it, to stop (in the "Is Nate The New Clone 316?" thread.) But I can't force him to stop. Do you want me to ban him from here to punish him? What exactly do you propose I do, and how exactly are posters to this blog responsible for what people do outside of this website? As far as what he's done here, he changed his picture when I asked him, and I noticed he's removed your email address from his profile. If he's emailing staffers, well.. that's lame. But I can't stop him.

Last, as far as I'm concerned the GCM pastors will always find some way to label us as fanatics. If it wasn't this it would be something else. I've already been told I am "walking close to the Devil" and had my salvation questioned enough times by GC folks that I really could care less what they think about me or this site. Most of them have made up their minds before they even read it. I do think Clone should stop if he's doing it, but I doubt he's "ruining" our reputation with them. They already consider us divisive slanderers, how much lower on their totem poles can we get?

I guess that's fine if no one here will even say anything to him.  Just don't freak out next time some GCM pastor says that the "GCMWarning folks are all fanatics".  Next time that happens, just think about what kind of interactions that pastor has probably had with folks like "Clone" lately.  It won't seem so weird anymore.

Again, what do you want me to do? Ban him to make a point?

[nateswinton]

Basically what I was looking for was what you just said.  I'm sorry, I missed your comment in the 316 thread.

I guess I just wanted someone here to acknowledge that what was going on was dumb, and that they didn't condone it.  Clone is an adult, and he will make his own decisions, you're right.

Thank you for responding, Puff, and sorry for the disturbance.

[puff of purple smoke]

Basically what I was looking for was what you just said.  I'm sorry, I missed your comment in the 316 thread.

I guess I just wanted someone here to acknowledge that what was going on was dumb, and that they didn't condone it.  Clone is an adult, and he will make his own decisions, you're right.

Thank you for responding, Puff, and sorry for the disturbance.

No worries. I am wondering if The Clone would be so kind as to say something now...

[Linda]

that's how I feel when people bash GCM all the time here

Could you explain what you mean by "bash GCM all the time"? Do you mean criticize teaching that some consider false?

Again, I have to go back to the purpose of this forum as stated beneath the header at the top of this page:

We're ex-GCM (aka GCI, GCAC, GCC) church members who want to discuss
problems we've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

This is a forum for ex-GCMers to discuss problems.

I guess, depending on your point of view, some, especially current members, could view the comments here as "bashing".

I see it differently. I see it as Christians trying to correct false doctrine and will end with a quote from Iain Murray:

Divisions and separations are most objectionable in religion. They weaken the cause of true Christianity. But before we blame people for them, we must be careful that we lay the blame where it is deserved. False doctrine and heresy are even worse than schism. If people separate themselves from teaching which is positively false and unscriptural, they ought to be praised rather than reproved.

In such cases separation is a virtue and not a sin.The old saying must never be forgotten, "He is the schismatic who causes the schism"... Controversy in religion is a hateful thing... But there is one thing which is even worse than controversy, and that is false doctrine, allowed, and permitted without protest or molestation.

[nateswinton]

Could you explain what you mean by "bash GCM all the time"? Do you mean criticize teaching that some consider false?

Of course not, but thank you for asking.  You can find me disagreeing with false doctrine all over this forum, and all over my blog, and if you knew me personally, all over my life in general.  I'm referring directly to the blanket-statement (and "ad hominem") attacks that have been made by some (I can't remember you or your husband participating) here.

I'm not going to quote examples, because it would just look like I'm picking on some people.

Basically, I'm saying that I have no problem with people here agreeing that the general GC definition of "slander" (as quoted in these forums) is probably not correct.  I have a problem with the statements that run more along the lines of "These guys are just a cult" and "Stay away from this abusive group!"

It these forums stayed in the realm of just pointing out false doctrine and dismissing certain GC leaders in a spirit of love and humility, I would have little to no problem with them.

Please understand that I have no problem with people pointing out false doctrine.  It just defeats the point to do so without a sober mind or love (peaceful, patient, kind... etc. etc.).  Again, you've tended to be fair and balanced, Linda, so I'm not picking on you here.

[Linda]

Thanks for taking the time to explain. I think I understand what you are trying to say.

God bless you.

[nateswinton]

God bless you.

You too