Rock BOT - or "Why is Mark Darling's best friend able to decide he's innocent?

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[ShineTheLight]

I posted below not knowing that John Rundquist was Mark Darling's son-in-law..The Rock BOT member (Todd Goodwin) is co-leader of The Rock North House church with Mark Darling's son-in-law...but is supposed to be completely objective..wow...just...wow...


Hey all,

Not to stir the pot...But here some interesting observations I think you should all think about asking your ECC leadership about..

So the Rock BOT member is Todd Goodwin...and to be fair and clear I DON'T KNOW TODD - I'VE NEVER MET HIM..he may be the best, most objective guy in the world...BUT....his role at The Rock is to run a house church (http://www.rockthechurch.com/connect_adults)  with a guy named John Rundquist  (see same link).  Now to his great credit, Todd either doesn't participate in FB or deleted his account when this all started (kudos Todd)..But his close partner in ministry John Rundquist...not so much.  So Todd and John run the "North House" house church TOGETHER for The Rock...Cool right..So how do you think Todd's day-to-day partner in ministry feels about the whole investigation thing we have going on (unbiased and objective right...not so much).

Here's what John Rundquist who runs the North House church TOGETHER with Todd had to say about "The Reckoning" (that great piece of discredited fiction) on Jeromy's FB timeline..

"John Rundquist - Thank you so much brother for sharing your/our hearts!!! I am proud to be standing arm n arm with you!!!!"  

& it gets better....John Rundquist (who partners closely with Todd Goodwin, Rock BOT member, in their shared house church ministry)..also posted this "John Rundquist - Thank you Jon for your words and this verse!!!" on Micah Darling's FB timeline in response to a verse from Jon Dordal posted on Micah's timeline that says among other things " let death steal over them; let them go down to Sheol alive; for evil is in their dwelling place and in their heart"

So let's get this straight, just for the record...so Todd, who is the Rock BOT member, works arm in arm with John Rundquist presumably EVERY WEEK IN  THE ROCK NORTH HOUSE CHURCH...and John Rundquist is proud  to publicly on FB "stand arm n arm" with Jeromy's post of the Reckoning, and praise verses that talk about enemies going to hell alive, yet his partner in ministry, Todd Goodwin Rock BOT member is COMPLETELY UNBIASED...It's a miracle..a bit like the virgin birth...

Other fun reading..John Hopler & Rick Whitney are both on the GCM board...How many Hopler & Whitney kids & other GCM insiders do you think support "The Reckoning" on FB..Here's a list (all you have to do is just see who likes "The Reckoning" on Jeromy's FB page...

Tim Weber - ECC pastor "likes" The Reckoning
Sarah Whitney (maybe related to GCM board member Rick Whitney - ya think?) "likes" The Reckoning
Annie Whitney (maybe also related to GCM board member Rick Whitney- ya think?) "likes" The Reckoning
Jeanne Anne Davis (ECC staff) loves "The Reckoning'
Deborah Clemente Hopler (bet she's related to John Hopler - GCM Board?) "likes" The Reckoning
David Hopler (another of John' Hopler's kids?) "likes" The Reckoning..

You think justice is coming from this BOT...you may want to think again.  The entire GCM apparatus has a different idea.

[Barb]

John Rundquist is Mark Darling’s son-in-law

[ShineTheLight]

Wow..So Mark's son-in-law runs The Rock North house church with Todd Goodwin, the Rock BOT member..but Todd is COMPLETELY OBJECTIVE...Now I feel good about this process....    Thanks for sharing Barb.  I'm not an insider w/years at ECC so I'm sure there are a lot of connections like that I am missing.

[GodisFaithful]

I think I am seeing some reasons why Evergreen pastors decided they did not want anyone to know who all the BOT members are. They don't want anyone to know the kinds of connections these people have to the Darling family or to one of the pastors who is being investigated. People at Evergreen have been assured that all will be fair and unbiased and independent. No worries.  All above board. Respectable. Don't even think of questioning us, we are full of integrity and character. Just do not worry your little heads about who is on the BOT.

Someone said the word "sham". This is what it looks like from the outside: a sham.

So, after the investigation is over, the lawyer hired by Evergreen has no control over what the BOT does with all of her findings. They can keep it all under lock and key if they want to. And they can exonerate Mark Darling or slap his wrist with a wet noodle, or whatever. They could decide that all these women "took it wrong." All these poor needy women were just so messed up that they misinterpreted Mark Darling's attempt to help them.

And then the pastors of Evergreen will have the job of convincing their congregation that everything is just great. This was just a heavy dose of persecution. And John Hopler will congratulate Evergreen pastors and Jeromy Darling and the BOT for a job well done. "Well done, you did not allow a stain on our movement."

Mark Darling is on the national board, right? How much higher up can he get? Perhaps he will get to speak with greater authority on overcoming opposition.

There is a can of worms to be opened but I have a feeling the lid will remain tightly screwed on. No one would want to smell the stink.

I am not filled with glee.  I am very sad about the whole sorry mess.

[OneOfMany]

So, after the investigation is over, the lawyer hired by Evergreen has no control over what the BOT does with all of her findings. They can keep it all under lock and key if they want to. And they can exonerate Mark Darling or slap his wrist with a wet noodle, or whatever. They could decide that all these women "took it wrong." All these poor needy women were just so messed up that they misinterpreted Mark Darling's attempt to help them.

And then the pastors of Evergreen will have the job of convincing their congregation that everything is just great. This was just a heavy dose of persecution. And John Hopler will congratulate Evergreen pastors and Jeromy Darling and the BOT for a job well done. "Well done, you did not allow a stain on our movement."

If this does happen then a follow-up investigative news report is in order. They already did a report on what is going on in this "church" therefore they might be interested in a follow-up showing the personal connections that influenced the outcome. This would help warn people. Lets hope the BOT does the right thing but that does appear unlikely given the personal connections involved plus the culture of Evergreen which holds the organization up and treats people with contempt that do not tow their proper line.

[Rebel in a Good Way]

Your words made me shudder a little because of the likelihood of this outcome actually happening. But this is exactly the cause for concern.

However, if they choose to handle it this way, it is possible, like in the case of Andy Savage and Willow Creek, others will continue to call them to account. So they can make it go away in their own walls, but they can't control what goes on outside.


 

I think I am seeing some reasons why Evergreen pastors decided they did not want anyone to know who all the BOT members are. They don't want anyone to know the kinds of connections these people have to the Darling family or to one of the pastors who is being investigated. People at Evergreen have been assured that all will be fair and unbiased and independent. No worries.  All above board. Respectable. Don't even think of questioning us, we are full of integrity and character. Just do not worry your little heads about who is on the BOT.

Someone said the word "sham". This is what it looks like from the outside: a sham.

So, after the investigation is over, the lawyer hired by Evergreen has no control over what the BOT does with all of her findings. They can keep it all under lock and key if they want to. And they can exonerate Mark Darling or slap his wrist with a wet noodle, or whatever. They could decide that all these women "took it wrong." All these poor needy women were just so messed up that they misinterpreted Mark Darling's attempt to help them.

And then the pastors of Evergreen will have the job of convincing their congregation that everything is just great. This was just a heavy dose of persecution. And John Hopler will congratulate Evergreen pastors and Jeromy Darling and the BOT for a job well done. "Well done, you did not allow a stain on our movement."

Mark Darling is on the national board, right? How much higher up can he get? Perhaps he will get to speak with greater authority on overcoming opposition.

There is a can of worms to be opened but I have a feeling the lid will remain tightly screwed on. No one would want to smell the stink.

I am not filled with glee.  I am very sad about the whole sorry mess.

[Huldah]

So, after the investigation is over, the lawyer hired by Evergreen has no control over what the BOT does with all of her findings. They can keep it all under lock and key if they want to. And they can exonerate Mark Darling or slap his wrist with a wet noodle, or whatever. They could decide that all these women "took it wrong." All these poor needy women were just so messed up that they misinterpreted Mark Darling's attempt to help them.

Unless some totally unexpected mitigating factor is suddenly revealed, I just don't see how the BOT can find Mark innocent. There are already too many victims, and too much outside scrutiny. Even if Mark is genuinely innocent (which seems less and less likely as time goes by), he has been set up for failure by his friends who stacked the deck in his favor. There will always be the shadow of cronyism hanging over any favorable decision made by this BOT.

Ironically, if Mark is innocent, his best chance to prove it without suspicion of a cover-up would have been the kind of outside, third-party investigation that Suzanne asked for.

And if he isn't innocent, he could have prevented a whole world of negative publicity, forum wars, TV investigations, and traumatized children, simply by a few apologies and by sticking with his agreement to get therapy.

It's like the Martha Stewart situation: it's not the thing you did wrong that they get you on, it's the cover-up.

By the way, I'm still praying for the BOT, so I guess I still have hope that they will do the right thing. It's just that, every time I get my hopes up that GC leaders will do what's right, I end up disappointed.

[Huldah]

How can you justify your words here?  Just for a second, entertain the thought that the allegations are not true, how will you be justified?  

I for one have entertained that very thought, more than once. If you re-read my posts, I've often shown Mark the benefit of the doubt by using words like "alleged," "(un)likely," and "if," not to mention frequently referring to Suzanne and the others as "accusers" rather than "victims." I've done all this out of fairness, knowing that my caution may have been interpreted as doubt or mistrust by Suzanne and the other women who are already going through so much.

Now we've reached a point where there are multiple victims coming forward. People from ECC are no longer able to accuse Suzanne of making up fake victims. It's looking more and more like Mark really, truly did these awful things. I don't know how you explain that away in your own mind. I know that if Mark ever confesses the truth, people at Evergreen are going to be devastated. My questions to you are: how can you still be so convinced of his innocence when there are so many victims, and how do you think Mark can justify to himself, letting so many people go to such lengths to defend him, when he knows he did exactly what he's accused of? (edit to add:) Because at this point, I'm hard pressed to give him the benefit of the doubt much longer. There just isn't much room for innocence now that the others have come forward.

[ShineTheLight]

I am wondering how Lynn Newman and Jim Bird were able to sit across the table from Suzanne and tell her the BOT is "sequestered, like a jury, so I can't tell you who they are" the whole time knowing The Rock BOT member is leading a house church with Mark Darling's son-in-law.  How exactly was Todd sequestered from Mark's son-in-law who he runs a house church with?  If Todd has a sense of honor, we will recuse himself from this process.

[GodisFaithful]

I have heard that a follow up to the Fox 9 report is going to happen, and that gives me some relief. In an investigation of this manner and magnitude, it should be able to withstand the scrutiny of the outside watching world. Michigan State University did not do the right thing until there was scrutiny. Wanting to know who is on the BOT and what their biases might be is nothing to be ashamed of, whether or not you have ever attended Evergreen.

Let the light shine in!! I hope that anything dark and wrong and stinky will be uncovered.  Remember, pastors are supposed to stay away from even the appearance of evil.

[Rebel in a Good Way]

Thanks, this explains why you have attacked me over and over.  

 Others will read this and think, "oh yes, that is probably exactly what will happen, because Rebel said this, and she must know something",

How can you justify your words here?  Just for a second, entertain the thought that the allegations are not true, how will you be justified?  How can you undo the damage done by your very own words?  How can you reconcile this with scripture?   How is this Godly discernment or good judgement? How does this fit in with being in leadership and helping others? 

I can justify my words because I am familiar with PATTERNS.  Over and over, churches react in these ways.  Behavior is telling, and ECC's behavior is part of the pattern that so many other churches have used to protect abusers in their walls.  It's a pattern I have witnessed GCC take with my own eyes. So it's not just baseless speculation, it's being aware (because yes, I have studied this) of the meanings of different actions and behaviors.  It's being aware of what transparent and trustworthy leadership looks like (not just "trust them because I think they have integrity"). It's being aware of Christian ethics.  I assess/evaluate based on actions.

You know, I had entertained the seriousness of what if the allegations are not true and tried to speak as such, also taking care to use words like "alleged," "if" etc.  I agree with you that it would be very serious. At this point, there are just too many women who have come forward, 3 of whom identified themselves for me to consider that as a real possibility, although obviously it's technically a possibility.  The BOT's investigation is not the only and final way to determine truth.  There is nothing in the bible that says a 501c3 entity that has a supervising Board of Trustees gets to determine what actually happened or not.  Truth is truth no matter how it's revealed. 

Also, I DO KNOW SOME THINGS.  I have seen recent communication from John Hopler himself where he tries to intimidate and bully.  It is shudder-worthy.  AND I KNOW SOME OTHER THINGS.  So based on those things I know, I think my actions measure up to scrutiny.

As far as the biblical aspect, Jesus calls us to care for the least of these (Matt 25:31-46).  The least of these in his society were the ones with less power, who weren't treated justly, and who were negatively affected by God's people who failed to live up to their call. Another verse in Matt is 18:6, which says it is better for one to have a millstone around his neck that to cause a little one to stumble.  He had been welcoming children, who at that time were also powerless and vulnerable in society.  Luke 4:18 where Jesus quotes Isaiah about setting the oppressed free.  Much of the OT law is based on justice, protecting the vulnerable and correcting wrong-doing by making restitution.  The Old Testament shows the prophets having to call out his people for their wrongdoing, always with the goal of repentance and returning to him.  Matt 23 speaks directly to leaders who missed the mark and harmed their people.  I know ECC supporters have used those references against the victims' supporters, but that is incorrect.  The terms brood of vipers (which was a super huge insult in the time and would have sounded worse to them than it does to us) was used against leaders in power who neglected justice, mercy, were hypocritical and sought power.  Based on the themes of Scripture, I would rather err on the side of choosing to stand with the victimized and oppressed and risk the off chance that the powerful, who have already demonstrated signs of being abusive, might be innocent.  However, if they are shown innocent, then I would make every effort to make things right.

[Heidi]

Your words made me shudder a little because of the likelihood of this outcome actually happening. But this is exactly the cause for concern

Another grand speculation that this will likely be the outcome; a BOT hiding the results of the investigation, lying to the people they have served along side for many years, their church family.  From what you know of these good men and women (which is absolutely nothing at all, you know not a single thing about any of these people), yet you are able to come to the conclusion you have, and to add some sensationalism to your words, this made you "shudder." 

But yet you can't see how your words are wrong.  How sharing your speculations and convictions on this topic would cause issues for others.  Others will read this and think, "oh yes, that is probably exactly what will happen, because Rebel said this, and she must know something", but she has NEVER attended this church, she does not know the people involved, she does not know MD, and certainly has never met anyone on the BOT or know their lives, their hearts, their integrity, their walks with the Lord, etc.  Did you know that Todd's wife recently was involved in getting the wording changed in a MN law about sexual misconduct because of misconduct incident that was done to her, and the person got away with just a misdemeanor charge, because the law was written poorly, so she worked for change.  Wow, right? 
YOU KNOW NOTHING, NOTHING AT ALL and your all your speculations and blame and "expertise" on abuse is damaging people and the church and this situation.  All you know is what Suzanne has told you, and whatever negative experience you had at your church, combined with your bias, and abuse books you have read and college courses on abuse in the church equals guilty as charged, and nothing else. 

How can you justify your words here?  Just for a second, entertain the thought that the allegations are not true, how will you be justified?  How can you undo the damage done by your very own words?  How can you reconcile this with scripture?   How is this Godly discernment or good judgement? How does this fit in with being in leadership and helping others? 


 

Rebel- I appreciate your knowledge and objective insights.  I think you know more than you are getting credit for.  "You know Nothing, nothing at all"  Strong words and a poor character attack.  Heidi

[GodisFaithful]

Rebel,

I don't know why GTA needs to scream/yell at you. As if this person knows everything about you, and has decided that you deserve that treatment. This person must be having a bad day. I thought this person was the one who thought everyone should be civil, especially to him/her. You would think, then, that this person would treat others that way. Doesn't GTA know that all caps means yelling?

I would like to  encourage you that you know quite a bit. I don't know why someone thinks they need to intimidate you.  Perhaps this person is actually afraid of what you *do* know, and this reaction is a fear thing.  Hopefully the discourse will be kinder and gentler and more humble in the future. It almost seems like GTA has a personal vendetta against you, like you are getting just a little to close to the truth sometimes.

[Godtrumpsall]

Rebel,

I don't know why GTA needs to scream/yell at you. As if this person knows everything about you, and has decided that you deserve that treatment. This person must be having a bad day. I thought this person was the one who thought everyone should be civil, especially to him/her. You would think, then, that this person would treat others that way. Doesn't GTA know that all caps means yelling?

I would like to  encourage you that you know quite a bit. I don't know why someone thinks they need to intimidate you.  Perhaps this person is actually afraid of what you *do* know, and this reaction is a fear thing.  Hopefully the discourse will be kinder and gentler and more humble in the future. It almost seems like GTA has a personal vendetta against you, like you are getting just a little to close to the truth sometimes.

All caps is for attention, not always yelling.  My point and the context of my message is making speculative statements about a person, their life, this investigation, on a public forum is unwise.  But when I point this out on the forum, not necessarily just Rebel, the responses are quick to turn it around and say I am being a bully or trying to intimidate others. I don't know everything about Rebel, and I actually just had a private message conversation with her.   I am not afraid of what she "does know", I don't have any fear.  She is not getting to closer to the "truth" and making me uncomfortable.  Again, so many speculations....really it is gossip.   I am just tired of all the speculation and drama that comments on here are adding to this whole mess.  Passive aggressive behaviors are often in many comments.  Some people say they are waiting to see what the investigation brings forth, but in the meantime they continue to participate in smearing a man, a church, ECC people here with unending speculations, and so on.  I should make a list of all the laughable speculations that have been made about me personally since I have been on this forum. 

My message was not just for Rebel, but for all on the forum. 

[OneOfMany]

Given the culture of Evergreen which includes a dishonest style of communication spiritualized by labeling normal communication as gossip or slander, it is not surprising that some current members are finding normal discourse difficult.

The longer someone has lived within an environment of unhealthy boundaries the more difficult it may be to see with honesty and clarity what is really going on.

I feel compassion for those members who post here angry and confused because they are not comfortable with normal communication styles. Healthy communication that is honest and forthright. It must be very confusing for them.

[Huldah]

All caps is for attention, not always yelling.

You've been misinformed. If you want to emphasize a point, use bold or italics. All caps is yelling.

All caps is also harder to read.

[Huldah]

 I am just tired of all the speculation and drama that comments on here are adding to this whole mess. 

You can't be that tired of it, if you're still here.

Surely even you realize that the fuss on this forum would most likely have died down shortly after the initial buzz over Scout's accusations. There would have been a few posts asking for updates from time to time, while waiting for the BOT to draw its conclusions, but nothing like the continuing firestorm which Mark's supporters created and continue to stir up. If you really wanted this controversy kept quiet, then surely you must admit that coming here and keeping it alive was a poor strategy.

However, if you're really tired of this forum, take a break. I've had to do that myself a few times. Nothing wrong with that.

[Linda]

He also has very personal bias against the church, as an atheist.  This is the guy that will shine some light on the situation?

You know for a fact that he doesn’t attend church or believe in the existence of God? How would you know that?

Assuming your hypothesis is true (and I have no reason to believe it is), are you saying people who don’t attend church and/or believe in the existence of God (which is what an atheist is), are unable to seek justice and speak truth?

[OneOfMany]

He also has very personal bias against the church, as an atheist.  This is the guy that will shine some light on the situation?

You know for a fact that he doesn’t attend church or believe in the existence of God? How would you know that?

Assuming your hypothesis is true (and I have no reason to believe it is), are you saying people who don’t attend church and/or believe in the existence of God (which is what an atheist is), are unable to seek justice and speak truth?

I want to add that this perspective that people outside of Evergreen do not know what is true or just is a symptom of the sickness that is Evergreen and all of its affiliates.

[Huldah]

GTA, you're so ready to accuse and tear down anyone who isn't part of your ECC social circle. Do you understand that that isn't normal or healthy?

God can use the ungodly to accomplish his will, just as He used Assyria and Babylon to discipline Israel and Judah. If he wants to expose the wolves in a church (any church, not just yours or mine), he can use an atheist reporter to do it. And if He does expose the wolves, we must trust Him that it's for the good of the sheep.