Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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Del
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« on: July 02, 2020, 02:02:21 am »

[I have edited the original message down to the two main points: the perceived purpose of this forum, and the reason I took the time to stop by.]

I recognize that the purposes of this forum are to offer support for those whose spiritual/emotional base has been shaken, and to provide healing for those whose injury and pain are obviously real.  

When I contributed to this forum initially, it was out of concern for the perception of “religion” (i.e. G-d) that potential seekers might take away.

 

 
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 12:54:58 am by Del » Logged
Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2020, 07:52:08 am »

I think it only right that before engaging others reading here in a candid dialogue that you be up front about your purpose here.  As a former leader in GCx, as you have described, why should those wounded by its spiritually abusive authoritarian and manipulative practices participate in your survey?  

It is very telling that you offered no apology or remorse to those for whom this site was created.  In fact, you came here minimizing and ridiculing people who are exposing GCx’s spiritual abuse.  I think it unconscionable that you would say anything more on here before first offering your deepest apology for the two plus decades you participated (wittingly or unwittingly) in the spiritual abuse as a leader; not to mention for the disparaging comments you posted.  I, personally, am not interested in your thoughts on this GCM Warning Forum until you understand what this site and these precious people are about on here.

Former and current GCx members reading here do not deserve to be bullied or deceived once again.  I suggest you create your own blogsite.

« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 10:17:42 am by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2020, 09:22:56 am »

“And our hope for you is firm, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, so also you share in our comfort.”  
2 Corinthians 1:7

This website offers encouragement to those who were significantly wounded in their very soul by False Teaching Abuse in GCx.  God’s Word emboldens us to share what we have gone through.  This sharing of exploitation and condemnation we experienced in GCx - the resulting problems and struggles as to our faith; and the comfort we have since found can bring hope, healing, and encouragement to each other as the scripture suggests.


« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 09:50:53 am by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Huldah
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« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2020, 10:07:52 am »

Janet, I agree.

Another purpose of this website is to document the history of the Blitz/GC movement and discuss errors in its doctrine and teachings. The Blitz started out as a group of very young idealists who felt they had nothing to learn from older, more experienced believers. I don't know whether bad doctrine led to abuse of the members, or whether a tendency to abuse others led to bad doctrine as a means of rationalizing the abuse.

Whichever came first, the chicken or the egg, it ended up as a vicious cycle. When you believe that the elders have direct authority from God to make or influence major life decisions for their followers, and you've got chapter and verse to prove it, things can go south quickly.
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Linda
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« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2020, 11:24:17 am »

Del,

My favorite C. S. Lewis quote is from "The Last Battle".

“By mixing a little truth with it they had made their lie far stronger.”

ECC deceived me just this way. Deception with a little truth mixed in was hard to see through.

I love "The Last Battle". It was the book that helped me a lot after leaving ECC.
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Del
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« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2020, 01:46:26 pm »

Janet, Huldah and Linda,

You know nothing about me, or the relationships I have and have had with the people I serve and have served. Nevertheless I am condemned, guilty by association. This is not a new experience for us.

In my latest post I made it clear that I am attempting to assist anyone, regardless of spiritual or religious background or interest, to escape whatever cruel dogma rules their lives. Well-meaning efforts that do inadvertent damage to a seeker’s perception of the Creator of the Universe have been a concern of mine for decades. In my own experience, I have learned that things like envy, bitterness and vindictiveness make for poor counsel.

I neither look for acceptance nor ask forgiveness from people I do not know or for abuses I have not committed. By way of the allegory I wrote, and the survey I offered, I search for those, who, like me many years ago, discover within themselves that spark of “knowing”, who hear that still small voice that whispers “there is something higher.” For a brief moment, I thought I may have found such a one on this forum. So far, I have not. But as I have searched for the past ten years, in various places, so I shall continue. A single success makes years of searching worthwhile, and may bring eternal benefit to many.
 
To those who understand, there is still time to get off the boat.


« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 12:50:34 am by Del » Logged
Huldah
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« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2020, 02:31:00 pm »

Janet, Huldah and Linda,

You know nothing about me, or the relationships I have and have had with the people I serve and have served. Nevertheless I am condemned, guilty by association. This is not a new experience for us.

By the same token, you came to this forum without knowing us, and in your very first posts you accused us of "questionable counsel" and "pseudo-religious rants," and berated us for posting our concerns and experiences publicly. Now you've followed that up by more or less suggesting that we're motivated only by  "envy, bitterness, and vindictiveness." Well, this isn't a new experience for us, either. People do seek us out here from time to time to tell us how horrible we are. It's the price of speaking out. Welcome to the club.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 02:56:30 pm by Huldah » Logged
Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2020, 07:56:47 am »

[I have edited the original message down to the two main points: the perceived purpose of this forum, and the reason I took the time to stop by.]

I recognize that the purposes of this forum are to offer support for those whose spiritual/emotional base has been shaken, and to provide healing for those whose injury and pain are obviously real.  

When I contributed to this forum initially, it was out of concern for the perception of “religion” (i.e. G-d) that potential seekers might take away.


Your comment above is appreciated.  

The Word of God teaches, as you likely know, that his shepherds are to be meek like Paul, not arrogantly lording it over their flock.  They are to teach accurately the scriptures to empower God’s people to live free in Christ, not be under bondage to men.  They are to respect the different workings of the Holy Spirit among the body, not suppress His work by shame and silence.  These were not the teachings and practices of GCx leaders who were indoctrinated by McCotter.  His lust to build the empire of GCx exploited, manipulated, isolated, and condemned many thousands of people.  No doubt some leaders initially were as tricked as the rest of us.  However, with more recent public disclosure of spiritual abuse in the church in general, and of GCx’s abuse on this site, members and leaders alike are empowered to leave these oppressive environments.  

Hearing from the victims of GCx spiritual abuse themselves opens one’s eyes to pervasiveness of it among it’s churches and leaders. Listening to their stories gives understanding into the depth of harm against them.  Unless one closes his ears and eyes, you cannot but weep over the ravaging that has occurred.  It is necessary to really hear them at considerable length before responding sincerely.

“My beloved brothers, understand this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to anger,
for man’s anger does not bring about the righteousness that God desires.”
James 1:19-20  Berean Study Bible

Paul was not hesitant to rebuke spiritual abusers in a public record that would be read world wide for eternity.  

« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 08:00:04 am by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Del
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« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2020, 02:06:36 pm »

Janet, before you say “Oh No!”, this is actually an endorsement of the De-Commissioned Forum…with a caveat.

What you desire to do with this forum is admirable and necessary. You of “Household Name” status are to be commended and assisted in real ways. I will try to do that.

Doing the right thing is not easy.  In many cases, it is misunderstood. In some cases, it can even be injurious to those we hold most dear.
Samuel loved Saul, but nonetheless was told by G-d to remove him as King of Israel. Then Samuel cut Agag to pieces with a sword.

Elijah was frightened of Ahab and Jezebel, but G-d directed him to contest His sovereignty against 450 prophets of Baal on Mt. Carmel. G-d was with him, and Elijah hacked them all to death with a sword.

Then there was a prophetess in the days of King Josiah who was called-upon to establish the authenticity of a Torah scroll found by his men. Even though she lived in a day when the messenger was often killed if the King didn’t like the message, she did so. By the grace of G-d, she unwaveringly delivered the Prophecy, even though it meant the destruction of Jerusalem and its inhabitants. Her name was חולדה “Huldah”.
 
You all seem to be in a position to truly assist the broken and/or confused souls who come to the forum seeking guidance and support. To do so requires that you be incisive and decisive, as was חולדה, and consult the same authentic Counsel she endorsed.
  
Linda, you asked why I left “The Works”. Actually, The Works left me. Determined to do what the Scriptures clearly taught, I would not tolerate manipulation and self-service, and was finally accused of not even being “born-again”. I saw our little church fall victim to slander and bitterness, and was passively abandoned by the national leadership. With the agreement of everyone, we dissolved the church, and counseled all members to seek out fellowship wherever they felt most comfortable.

Over the course of the next ten, bitter years, I discovered that Christianity did not have the tools to self-correct. It lacked the universal, definable, applicable principles of personal development and discipline necessary for true spiritual development...and healing. Simply asking “what would Jesus do?” was not enough. According to his own teachers and his own Scriptures, he did everything wrong. C. S. Lewis’ now-famous, implied challenge, i.e. "Liar, lunatic, or Lord", led me to one, very unpopular conclusion, and “Lord” was clearly not it.

This valuable truth became evident during the next ten year period, during which I and my family, sensing something higher, entered into a time of intense study and application. They were rugged and trepidatious years, but our lives became so much more meaningful and clear, while the world around us became increasingly strange and desperate. The last ten years have been, in a word, remarkable.

Among a host of other things, we learned that religious and political dogmas are quite often the cause of profound damage and confusion.  While emotional healing can and does take place, addressing moral and ethical conduct is not an emotional or even a “religious” matter. It is a matter that falls within the jurisprudence of The Creator, as guided by the principles of justice, mercy, and humility He has clearly provided.

[If, after you read this, you determine it works against your purposes, simply let me know and I will "modify" it.]
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Huldah
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« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2020, 03:36:35 pm »

If, after you read this, you determine it works against your purposes, simply let me know and I will "modify" it.

There's no need to modify anything. This is pretty much a free speech zone, with the obvious exception of things that violate the TOS like profanity or doxxing. As we explained, this site is here to document GC history. Your story is certainly part of that history:

Linda, you asked why I left “The Works”. Actually, The Works left me. Determined to do what the Scriptures clearly taught, I would not tolerate manipulation and self-service, and was finally accused of not even being “born-again”. I saw our little church fall victim to slander and bitterness, and was passively abandoned by the national leadership. With the agreement of everyone, we dissolved the church, and counseled all members to seek out fellowship wherever they felt most comfortable.

Over the course of the next ten, bitter years, I discovered that Christianity did not have the tools to self-correct. It lacked the universal, definable, applicable principles of personal development and discipline necessary for true spiritual development...and healing. Simply asking “what would Jesus do?” was not enough. According to his own teachers and his own Scriptures, he did everything wrong. C. S. Lewis’ now-famous, implied challenge, i.e. "Liar, lunatic, or Lord", led me to one, very unpopular conclusion, and “Lord” was clearly not it.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2020, 03:50:04 pm by Huldah » Logged
Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2020, 10:06:47 pm »

Don’t you SEE, it is Him!  

It is Him who calls us and so many out of spiritual abuse.

Such persuasion does not come from the One who calls you.”   Galatians 5:8


It is Him who whispers to us in His gentle voice that the GCx leaders and organization were the perpetuators.

”You were running so well.
Who has obstructed you from obeying the truth?”  
Galatians 5:7


It is Him who helps us understand that the root of the false teaching came from the principal founder, Jim McCotter.

“A little leaven works through the whole batch of dough.”
Galatians 5:9


It is Him who shows us in His Word that we were tricked (as if under a spell) to attempt to make ourselves superior believers by our own works and loyalty to men rather than by the power of the Holy Spirit.

“O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? ...
Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh?”
Galatians 3:1,3


It is Him who draws us to rely instead on the most powerful force of change - faith.

“Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you practice the law, or because you hear and believe?”
Galatians 3:5


It is Him who taught us we were persuaded by False Teaching (in GCx) to leave grace behind for self-righteousness of mere men.

“I am amazed how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is not even a gospel. Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ.”  
Galatians 1:6-7


It is Jesus.  HE is our Seeker and Rescuer.


« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 11:52:27 am by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

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Del
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« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2020, 12:23:28 am »

Janet,

I remember a reply from a Jewish scholar when asked why he felt uncomfortable in Christian circles. He smiled and said, "2000 years of Christian love has had its effect." Seen from that perspective, "He" has quite a different reputation.

« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 06:00:06 am by Del » Logged
Huldah
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« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2020, 08:08:26 am »

Tell your scholar friend that he's at least 75 years out of date. Israel has no greater support in the world today than evangelical Christianity.

But what's most important about your story is the way it documents that at least one former GC pastor wasn't even a born again Christian (unless one believes that a true Christian can lose his salvation, which is not Biblically supported). I have long suspected  GC of sometimes elevating nonbelievers to positions of leadership, although most likely unwittingly. Your story is the first solid proof of that.
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Del
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« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2020, 08:40:55 am »

The scholar in question made that comment in the early 20th century. However, history would clearly indicate that Jews enjoyed a "golden age" in many countries only to be later brutalized, expelled and exterminated. Antisemitism will not be out of date until Messiah puts an end to it.

By the way, evangelical Christianity, by merit of that very appellation, must seek to "save" the Jewish people, or deny its very reason to exist. In so seeking, they join the Greeks in their "love" of Israel. They were also after the Jewish soul. (Just wait until...G-d forbid...the Democrats take power in the U.S.! Roll Eyes)

Also, don't be too quick to claim "solid proof" regarding anyone "elevating nonbelievers to positions of leadership" based on my account. You see, I was the one whose born-again status was being questioned. I became a born-again Christian at the age 15 and ran the race for the next 40 years. According to all accounts, my status hasn't changed. I just understand it more clearly now.

I'll have to admit, that does make me somewhat of an anomaly, and puts NT theology on its ear.
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« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2020, 09:52:47 am »

Del, it's obvious that we not only see the world through very different lenses, but that we even have different definitions for the most basic terms such as "born again". I'm bowing out of this conversation. I'm sorry you no longer see Jesus as the Messiah of Israel and the only Savior of mankind, if indeed you ever saw Him that way. However, I hope you find whatever happiness and peace are still available to you in this earthly life.
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Del
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« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2020, 11:09:49 am »

Well-put, different lenses for sure.

If it means anything, it is obvious to me that you have a good heart, and a determination like that of your chosen namesake, Huldah, to do what you see necessary in alleviating the pain and suffering of others. That is, after all, the textbook definition of compassion.

For the record, I most definitely saw Jesus as the Messiah, my visceral repentance and subsequent conversion as a teenager producing such lasting change as to be the source of consternation for my parents and siblings. The removal of the man from the office, however, did nothing to slow my spiritual progress or dampen my enthusiasm for the cause of Heaven. In fact, it had, precisely, the opposite effect.

Huldah, if I could package the remarkable happiness and peace that I have into a capsule, I would dispense it free of charge to every man, woman and child on the planet. That is, in fact, the charge The Holy One, blessed be He, has given his children. I just lack the capsules.

Be well, stay safe. Oh, one more thing...

I pledge to not "stick my oar" into any counseling opportunities on this forum you and the others (Janet, Linda, et al) may have, unless I am addressed.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 11:14:26 am by Del » Logged
Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2020, 10:22:23 am »

“To what can I compare this generation?  They are like children sitting among the marketplaces and calling out to others:

     ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance;
    We sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.’

For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’  The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and “sinners.”  But wisdom is proved right by her actions.”

Matthew 11:16-19


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For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Del
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« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2020, 12:10:39 pm »



Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.

Shun Idolatry

 “If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes true,
concerning which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,’
 
 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the Lord your God is testing you to find out
if you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
 
 You shall follow the Lord your God and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him.
 
 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has counseled rebellion against the Lord your God
who brought you from the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of slavery,
to seduce you from the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk."

 So you shall purge the evil from among you.


Deuteronomy 12:32~13:1-5 New American Standard Bible
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Huldah
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« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2020, 07:34:55 pm »

I thought I was through with this conversation, but I have one final question based on your post above. Are you saying that Jesus was a false prophet who deserved to die? That's how your post comes across to me. Please let me know whether I've understood you correctly.
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Del
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« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2020, 10:22:35 pm »

Huldah, what I posted was a passage from Deuteronomy, unedited from the NASB. They are not my words. I think they are fairly clear, but you must draw your own conclusions.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 03:01:21 am by Del » Logged
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