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Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[AgathaL'Orange]

http://www.gcnwdads.com/articles/Faithwalkers%20%2007%20Humility%20Talk.doc

We're not making this stuff up.

[AgathaL'Orange]

Here's the audio of this talk:
http://www.marshill.cc/faithwalkers/2007/podcast

Session 8

One of the quotes that may pertain:

Think about it. Even church-hopping is pride.  1 out of 6 Christians will change church every year and 1 out of 6 will attend more than one church on a rotating basis.  This is just pride.  All we’re saying is, “I am not going to get close, because I am not going to become anyone’s servant.”

Here are a few questions to help us find out just how proud we are:

1.   When you are lost, do you stop and ask for directions?
Always, Never, sometimes?
2.   Do you find yourself admiring yourself in the mirror?
Always, Never, sometimes?
           3.  Do you think you are superior to the people around you?    
      Always, Never, sometimes?
4.  Do you find yourself bragging about your accomplishments?
      Always, Never, sometimes? 
5.  Do you think most people are lucky to have you as their friend?
      Always, Never, sometimes?
6.   Do you like the idea of personal servants?
Always, Never, sometimes?]

These questions don't all reek of pride!  I think you SHOULD look in the mirror and think you look great!  You're just admiring God's handiwork.  We need to be able to see God's handiwork everywhere.  And asking for directions?  It's completely plausible that people don't ask for directions because they like the challenge, they have kids in the car, they don't want to talk to strangers... That's silly!  The judgmental tone is just over the top.

Here's what I think the questions on discerning pride should be:

1.  Do you think that you have a special mission that only YOU and your friends are fulfilling?

Always, Sometimes, Never

2.  Do you think YOU have all the answers and your unsaved or non-GC neighbors have little to no answers?

Always, Sometimes, Never

3.  Do you think that God orchestrates worldwide or community happenings to teach YOU or your group a lesson?

Always, Sometimes, Never

4.  Do you think that YOU and your partners in your mission are "Extraordinary," of the "Highest Caliber," or unique in your passion, commitment, obedience, or character?

Always, Sometimes, Never

5.  Do you preach messages that tell everyone else what they are doing wrong?

Always, Sometimes, Never

By these questions... GC as a movement and GC celebrities would be teeming with pride.

Also don't you love this quote??  In the audio you can hear it... he edited it out of the written transcript.

Serving all the time?  Ever afraid of burn-out?  Get over it! Get your eyes off yourself.  Burnout is another word for pride.

Okay, then!  That explains a few things, doesn't it?

[wastedyearsthere]

I listened to John Meyers seminar from 2007 Faithwalkers tonight.  Nothing has changed in over 25 years with this man and his teaching!! 

Is there a way to get some of these Ipod cast with the printed dialogue?  It is hard to hear him at the end and the dialogue with him that Charlie (I assume his brother) has with him that would be interesting to know what was shared.

Here are some quotes towards the end that were hilarious and sad at the same time.  These are regarding women's clothing.

"If you don't want me to think about it why show it to me"?

"If you show it to me -- would you be offended if I touched it?"

"If you are with me and dropped a pencil to pick it up -- would I be thinking "danger, danger, warning -- Do I need to make decisions to scramble??!!"

"If I stand next to you and you are wearing a sleeveless top do I need to be careful not to stand next to you?"

He did say at the end that what women wear needs to be Spirit led -- interesting since I've heard stories and have experienced him telling women to go home and change their clothes and when he was on my team years ago -- girls couldn't even wear sandals since it made him stumble or even a turtle neck sweater. 

Memories -- how some things never change.  Makes me want to go to Fort Collins with some pencils......

[Linda]

I didn't listen to this talk, but the quotes produced a couple of thoughts. First of all, I find talks like this really depressing. Apparently, all men (of which my husband is one) are unable to control themselves. Combined with this is the knowledge that even if all the Christian women of the world dressed modestly (and I am for modest dress, don't get me wrong), there are still millions of women in shopping malls, in the workplace, at the grocery store, jogging at the club, etc. who are dressed in ways that might be considered immodest. So, the message I get is there is really no hope. Men will live in a constant state of lust and can't help it.

Second point and something that really amuses me about this whole topic is that we actually found our GC church to be very "loose" with the dress code. About 3 weeks in to our experience at ECC, Mark Darling mentioned that they were moving from "summer" mode to seeker mode. We were told that meant that we shouldn't bring our Bibles (because unsaved people didn't bring them and we shouldn't make them feel awkward), we shouldn't raise our hands in the air (because it made unsaved people feel strange), and that the music would change and then he mumbled something about bringing "his girls" out on stage to lead worship and quoted some Proverb about wisdom bringing out her maidens as part of the philosophy of having pretty girls on stage. It sounded to us like he was saying that he was going to use pretty girls to attract men to the Lord.

It was the first red flag, and was said at a Friday evening service. Terry and I went back the next Sunday because we could not believe our ears. He did not say it again, so I assume maybe someone told him it was inappropriate or he figured that out on his own.

A few years later, I actually asked my husband who was on the worship team to talk with the worship leader about a woman who obviously was flaunting her stuff on stage. She was really a distraction to worship. Tight and very expensive clothes, hard to not notice because she obviously spent a lot of time and money on her look. We called her Barbie. She lasted months so I assumed they must have wanted her there to attract men. Looking back on it now, I just feel kind of sick about it. So, it seems to me like there is a mixed deal going on at some GC churches.

[Anonymous]

I didn't listen to this talk, but the quotes produced a couple of thoughts. First of all, I find talks like this really depressing. Apparently, all men (of which my husband is one) are unable to control themselves.

This is typical of the state of mind at Summitview Community Church (John Meyer's church.) At one point around 2005 the college/career small group leaders announced a rule where no single male or female could be in the same room together without bringing a partner of the same sex. This became extremely awkward, legalistic, and silly. At one point we had a three person group that was going to play a board game (two guys, one girl) and the other guy scrambled to find a second girl so that the game would be "legit" - so some girl leader who we didn't invite and who we'd never hung out with shows up out of nowhere to play. At least she prevented us from turning pictionary into a 3-person orgy! 20-somethings being treated like children - welcome to Summitview!

Mark Darling mentioned that they were moving from "summer" mode to seeker mode. We were told that meant that we shouldn't bring our Bibles (because unsaved people didn't bring them and we shouldn't make them feel awkward), we shouldn't raise our hands in the air (because it made unsaved people feel strange), and that the music would change and then he mumbled something about bringing "his girls" out on stage to lead worship and quoted some Proverb about wisdom bringing out her maidens as part of the philosophy of having pretty girls on stage.

Um, yikes.

[wastedyearsthere]

I remember when John Meyer instituted a rule that single men and females couldn't be together after dark -- we weren't allowed to walk together from a meeting for example.  He has been like this for over 20 years since he was a deacon in Ames.

My own personal opinion is this man could use some help for HIS lust and feeling like me might lose control -- he seems to think that all MEN have his problems.