Singleness message... offensive within first few minutes.

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[AgathaL'Orange]

I'm listening to the Making the Most of Singleness message and it just makes me so sad.  The speaker says, "Nobody wants to be the 40 year old virgin."  Wow.  That's extremely offensive.  Someone in the audience says, "I do!"  Where is the acknowledgement that SOME people actually want to be single or that there are people who may never get married?  He's equating singleness to Muzak... dull and boring.  Or a waiting room.  If there are people who have grief or loneliness over being single, it seems pretty insensitive to have someone speaking who is happily married (and happily married at a young age).  


Is it possible that there are no single leaders to speak on "Making the Most of Singleness" because GC tends to equate marriage with leadership and spiritual maturity?

Some beginning thoughts on the sermon.  The end may be very different.  But so far, I feel sad with how offensive this message is.  

I think they wish to be encouraging, but so far, they are not, in my opinion.  


What if singleness is not a second class way of life?  Um hello?  Of course not?  Of course NOT!  

[AgathaL'Orange]

Also, it's" betrothed" with a long o, not betrawthed.   

[wastedyearsthere]

Who is the speaker?  I don't see it on the site. 

[Grace]

Dan and Meg Rude, Tom and Mandy Brown
   The Great Adventure: Making the most of your singleness

[blonde]

What has happened now is that Mark and his other co-leaders are now asking the young at the Faithwalkers to consider to be a church planter.  He told his son(s) to have a career, likened to be able to be a church planter.  What is the difference between a church planter, and head pastor I ask?

Can anyone tell me?

[just sharing]

I think they wish to be encouraging, but so far, they are not, in my opinion. 

And yet, to the people in that room, the majority of them probably found it very encouraging and will tell you how good a message it was. Dan Rude's wife even went over to one of the WCCC church plants after Faithwalkers and shared more on this topic.

[AgathaL'Orange]

Right, I get that GC teaches messages to the "majority".  Their messages fall apart when it comes to the minority.  Say, the minority of 40 year old virgins.  Oh wait, where are those folks anyway?  When I went there, there were at least 8 people that fit that bill... at least 40 year old non marrieds.  Where do they fit?

In GC, leadership is tied up with marriage.  Where are the leaders who are single?  If there is SO much spiritual value in being single, why aren't there any single leaders?  I'll tell you why, if you listen to the message, you'll hear time and time again... you are not married because you aren't ready.  Get yourself ready.  Prove your readiness.  Find your direction.  Yadda yadda.  And the lessons were on being single in college.  Really?  You count being single as a freshman to be exploring the bounds of singleness?  A sophomore, a junior, a senior?

I learned this the hard way, after giving some "singleness" talks to my unmarried sister.  She sat me down once and schooled me.  After all, I had married at 19.  I thought I was the bee's knees and knew something.  Wrong.  I apologized and learned that while other people can't comment on the nuances of my extreme parenting circumstances, I also don't know jack on the subject and shouldn't pretend to.

GC teachers don't have these kinds of boundaries or thoughts I'm convinced.  They see themselves as incredibly wise, full of advice.

Again, this talk brings up how people should pay attention to ugly girls, not pretty girls, because pretty girls get plenty of attention.  It's just sick, guys.  I'm sorry.  That's really, extremely offensive!  These guys need some "sensitivity training"! 

[just sharing]

In GC, leadership is tied up with marriage.  Where are the leaders who are single?  If there is SO much spiritual value in being single, why aren't there any single leaders?  I'll tell you why, if you listen to the message, you'll hear time and time again... you are not married because you aren't ready.  Get yourself ready.  Prove your readiness.  Find your direction.  Yadda yadda.  And the lessons were on being single in college.  Really?  You count being single as a freshman to be exploring the bounds of singleness?  A sophomore, a junior, a senior?

I definitely agree with you, Agatha. Singleness talks given by people that married young don't make a lot of sense. And a lot of emphasis is placed on marriage as a mark of maturity. Are they implying that single people have less spiritual maturity than married people?

[Curious]

Off note I'm surprised that meg and dan have a 4th one on the way. I know of very few GC couples that wait more than a year to have kids or in this case a yearf in between kids.  Not to be judgemental at all, but there is a strong trend.

Well, I'd say that there is a similar trend in most conservative churches that don't practice birth control, and not just in GC.

[nelliepooh]

This is a little off topic but when Dan announced that they were pregnant again my jaw dropped.  I cannot imagine having 4 children in the first 4 years of marriage!  The crowd cheered wildly too at the announcement.  This is a strong trend in GCM to have kids right away.  Not that its wrong or anything but wow, that wouldn't be something I would do.

[Grace Abounding]

Where are the leaders who are single?  If there is SO much spiritual value in being single, why aren't there any single leaders? 

I know that there are a few single leaders in the different congregations at Walnut Creek and I expect that there are other singles leaders in other GC churches. Why aren't they asked to share their experiences? Or are you only qualified to speak on singleness when you are no longer single? Is getting married the end result of being single and making the most of your single years?

[blonde]

Single leaders seem to be far from the norm in the GCx world.

[Huldah]

When I was at GC, marriage was always presented as a badge of spiritual maturity. Not that you become mature by marrying, but that God will only give you a husband after you've earned the right to have one. It set up a system where single members automatically thought of themselves as inferior to married members. In the GC I knew, everything was always about the pecking order.

[blonde]

I knew many that we taken advanage of since they were single and had more time.  Sad it was like that and sure it is like that now.