The Blitz?

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[Captain Bible]

So, they admire the way the The Third Reich took over Europe!

Maybe that explains the violent movie clips,  

Whether it was Mel Gibson hacking an English solder to pieces with a tomahawk or an african being devourer by lions, I was greatly  shocked by them. (this was at a collage retreat in 05?)
Can't remember the speaker, probably Bill Young, I just remember that the devil is a man eating lion who will kill you if you leave GCX!  

Is this just the result of white males with too much power running a christian organization?
Or what?

Their basic point is this: God is going to come back and kill every one who doesn't believe in him. (AKA fallow GCX)
that is why you must do what ever it takes to "Save souls for Christ."  

Why do the pastors enjoy violent movies?

Why do they show them to collage students at a church conference?

Why were teen agers allowed to view  "The Matrix" (R) at a youth retreat?

[AgathaL'Orange]

I don't think they admired Hitler, no matter what they called themselves, but I agree they had a really odd focus on violent movies.  My guess is they needed an emotional, adrenaline fueled tool to help people want to be "with GC".   Hollywood has all kinds of idealized, beautiful, well made, violent, heart tugging scenes to choose from.  GC has delusions of grandeur, painting themselves as the kind of people who fought at Normandy or like the warriors in Braveheart.  They are really skilled at being drama queens in a sense, high soaring spiritual heights to low, deep spiritual depths (but not for too long, gotta stay happy).  The emotional roller coaster is addictive and easily mistaken for a heart conversion.  The repetition in music, the pulsing rhythms, the swaying, then the fierce contradictions with imagery from THE BATTLE we are all fighting, and then gratitude for being one in this safe place.  As long as you stay within the bounds, you are safe.

I found that I was addicted to this plying of my emotions.  I am naturally very emotional, and they skillfully tapped into that.  This is all national though... the local church was more practical and quiet.  It's become more polished in recent years .  

Hey, if something is sad... it's good to be sad.  If something is unjust, we should be angry.  But I think piggy backing on movies for emotional impact is a cheap trick.  I am mortified to say that I did this very thing once using music  in organizing a concert of prayer with music for maximum emotional benefit.  Yikes!

[AgathaL'Orange]

Also, in addressing your statement concerning God coming back and killing everyone who doesn't follow him.  I'll admit, I've become far more universalist in my thinking than ever before.  The idea that people who have never heard might burn in hell doesn't match up with other things I know about God.  I was surprised that other Christians mentally leave the door open in their beliefs for Christ to give other opportunities for people to follow him.  I don't know.

I do believe God is just and kind.  If He is not just and kind I have no desire to worship Him.  Many of the stories I've believed through the years are not the stories of a just and kind God. Further if these Christians who believe they are the elect or the saved and others (perhaps those living in war torn countries, or abused children) are going to hell... they have a lot of nerve doing anything fun ever.  Really.  And right there is where I have to question if GC is honestly living out that belief in the correct way.  If God's got a hammer and most everybody's still a nail... GC is saying we have to save them.  In that scenario, there should be no cause for balance, no focus on theology, no depth.  Just save em and keep going.  In the darkest view of life, Hell is waiting, most people are damned, you must believe and believe correctly, you must repent, and repent enough, and that's it.  I can't go there anymore. 

That is no longer my understanding.   Maybe it's because of GC.  Maybe I was never a Christian.  I don't know. I just know nice and loving people don't keep their love for you a big secret that would be transmitted through jerks and sinners who might mess it up if HELL is on the line.  Nice people aren't coercive, and nice people don't make you suffer forever if you don't love them right.  I just don't get it anymore.  In this scenario, how can God be loving?  How? 

The only way I can retain my faith is to believe God is good and to try to be truthful and say, "I don't know."  I find most Christian writings by a lot of people these days horribly depressing.  I reject it.  I was so afraid of hell as a child.  I spent time on mission trips bawling about people who turned down salvation.  What if all of that is just a bad dream, and it doesn't exist, and all that is in it's place is a God who holds the lonely child in His arms, who whispers his love to the ears of an old woman with dementia, who understands the heart of a taliban warrior, who just wants us to love and give and stop being cruel?  What if the crucifixion was about showing how death is not to be feared and love is the goal?  What if we all have a chance someday, even those with the hardest little stony hearts?  What does that mean?

Wow, I wasn't expecting to go here today.   

[Linda]

Random thoughts. I'll be really mad if I find out my children while in high school were shown R rated movies without my permission. This would demonstrate yet another usurping of the role of the parent by a GC leader.

A scene from Braveheart was used (after large group of members left one ECC location) to remind us that if we left, we would be going back on our word (apparently we had committed ourselves to lifelong obedience to our leaders and commitment to our church--that'll teach me to not read the small print).

Agatha, you brought up some very important topics that people have been pondering for centuries. I was reminded that most GC teaching was "works". They love Paul's "to do" and "to don't" lists. I honestly don't remember any teaching on the attributes of God. God is just. God is merciful. God is love. God is holy. God's holiness, love, and mercy meet at the cross. I mostly left every service thinking about my church or my pastor. I rarely left thinking about God.

I have often thought that without knowing it, GC leaders have become beholden to an idol. That idol is the church. They worship the bride. Not the Bridegroom. Subtle, but huge mistake. The devil is sneaky.

The only way I can retain my faith is to believe God is good and to try to be truthful and say, "I don't know."  I find most Christian writings by a lot of people these days horribly depressing.

I totally agree. I haven't given up on God at all, I have just become aware of the fact that there is a lot of garbage out there that is being taught authoritatively by people. It's why I believe in the free exchange of ideas and why a big red flag comes up when GC types tell people to not listen to criticism or read this forum. I know I have put this quote here before, but I love it. "Though all the winds of doctrine were let loose to play upon the earth, so truth be in the field, we do injuriously by licensing and prohibiting to misdoubt her strength. Let her and falsehood grapple; who ever knew truth put to the worse, in a free and open encounter."-John Milton

[Innerlight]

as I re-read and do a "deep dive" into the book of Romans, God's justice, Mercy, Authority, and more importantly his plan to redeem mankind, from Genesis to Revelation has never been made more clear.  I could go on for many, many paragraphs, but the offer of salvation is there, our tranformation occurs and our salvation (vindication) will be complete.  Does GCC teach Grace?  if not I would recommend they take another look at Romans (and GASP)!, maybe buy some recognized commentaries, or (GASP) take some classes at a local seminary. 

some of what they do seems very works oriented....grace, grace, grace!

[Captain Bible]

I was thinking about "the Blitz" at work today and remembered HBO's Band of Brothers, every collage age guy I knew loved it! They watched it over and over again. That is they watched almost all of it, episode nine has a a small sex scene, so no one would dare watch that!!!

I guess seeing people burned alive and blown to pieces is nowhere as terrible as two naked people making love.

Why do they love the idea of war and who are they fighting?

I don't know if I have the answers but I think the enemy was the “WORLD''.

What the heck is the world anyway? How can someone be more vague?

[Kelli]

Agatha-

I can completely relate to what you said about having your emotions on a rollercoaster. Before I became involved with GCM, I wasn't an overly emotional person, but did care deeply about life and people.

After leaving GCM, I have come to realize that many of my decisions were based on my emotions or how I felt at the time. Church was good if I "felt" a certain emotion. I cringe when I think back to what I was like at the time. I had no idea I was living that way, but over the years and through a lot of thought about my experience, I can see how much of my life was lived by emotions.

I do think God gave us emotions and they are very important and we should listen to them, but my emotions were so messed up after leaving GCM, they weren't normal. I think I was really depressed.

I remember the fall after I left, taking night classes and being unable to ride my bicycle home because I was so depressed. Not afraid of anything at night or anything like that, I just couldn't function. I had to have someone come pick me up. I am surprised I didn't realized something was really wrong, but like I said, I was messed up. :-)

I don't know how to explain it, but I think somehow GCM creates emotional highs and then lows when you aren't able to measure up to certain standards. I am not trying to be deragatory (how do you spell that?), but just share what happened to me. If I remember right, one of Lifton's criteria is spiritualizing everything that happens to you. Maybe that is part of why I was so emotional. Thinking that little things were punishment or blessings. Sigh.

I also wanted to comment about people going to hell who have never heard the gospel. In Romans, I think it is the second chapter (I don't have a Bible with me). Paul says that people who have not heard, but instinctively do what is right, their thoughts may accuse or PERHAPS EXCUSE them. I can't quote it verbatim, so you'll have to look it up. I have had that pointed out to me when I had those questions, and it helped me a lot.

[Innerlight]

Interesting that just tonight I heard Chuck Swindoll discuss these same issues on his radio broadcast, the hurt, manipulated people, under the care of dictatorial ministers who show up at his church, needing care, and time to heal their wounds. 

to all who read this, please don't give up on God, because of a lousy church experience.  He loves you, men will always disappoint, God will not.  Jesus earnestly wants you in the fold. 

Remember that in Romans, especially the early chapters, Paul is building the case against dpravity and sin, and that God being just...he has to be just, must deal with it. 

Hugh Hefner and Billy Graham, both men well into old age, one making pornogrpahy mainstream, degrading women, and launching a so-called revolution.  the other a kind, gentle man, serving God, and leading untolds to Christ.  I ask you:  Shouldn't God be just? 



see the podcast, the church awakening. 
http://www.insight.org/broadcast/

[G_Prince]

I was thinking about "the Blitz" at work today and remembered HBO's Band of Brothers, every collage age guy I knew loved it! They watched it over and over again. That is they watched almost all of it, episode nine has a a small sex scene, so no one would dare watch that!!!

I guess seeing people burned alive and blown to pieces is nowhere as terrible as two naked people making love.

Why do they love the idea of war and who are they fighting?

I don't know if I have the answers but I think the enemy was the “WORLD''.

What the heck is the world anyway? How can someone be more vague?

Yea, what the heck! "The World" could mean anything, or nothing at all.

I remeber war films being very popular too. I'm sure it was due to throbbing 20 somthing testosterone which needed some kind of outlet since most everything else was off limits. Maybe you can't date but at least you can blow people up!

[EverAStudent]

Why did GCx leadership so love war metaphors, war films, and organize the denomination as if it were the military??  Because several of the founders were war buddies: McCotter, Clark, Moore, others?

They talked quite fondly of their military service together.  I suppose if they had all met and played together in the NFL the church would have been inundated with football metaphors and been organized as team franchises.

[Innerlight]

Those of you who post here, you will find this very informative.  Chuck Swindoll alsmost seems to be speaking to this group.


http://www.insight.org/broadcast/

The Church Awakening: An Urgent Call for Renewal
Worship: A Commitment . . . Not a War, Part Two

[puff of purple smoke]

To quote from 'Reject The Wicked Man':

Spearheaded by two highly-charismatic and intense individuals, with
far-reaching and ambitious plans for world conquest, the movement was
born. Contacts made in the army, friends from high school, and other
disgruntled religious seekers gathered around these men, captured their
dreams, and helped set in motion what they believed was "God's great and
only holy work in this generation."

The population selected for recruitment by this dedicated band of
believers was college student at secular universities. Starting in the
Midwest and traveling from campus to campus in a rejuvenated school bus,
the group proselytized on campus, "hawking" freshmen in registration
lines, going door to door in the dorms ("cold turkey evangelism"), and
singing contemporary gospel songs in and around well-traveled areas.
Their efforts met with enough success to confirm their belief that "God
was with them." Intricately tied to this band's dedication was an
unflinching belief that the world was coming to an end within their
lifetimes, and that the millennium would be ushered in by Jesus Christ
in the middle of World War III (Armageddon). This fanatical urgency is
reflected in the non-denominational name they ascribed to themselves,
"The Blitz," or "Blitzers," named after Hitler's swift and surgically
precise attacks against the enemies of Nazism. Military terms soon
became a part of the sect's vocabulary, and comparisons to Nazi war
tactics gave way to strategies derived from Communist revolutionary
tracts as the movement gained strength.

[G_Prince]

To quote from 'Reject The Wicked Man':

Spearheaded by two highly-charismatic and intense individuals, with
far-reaching and ambitious plans for world conquest, the movement was
born. Contacts made in the army, friends from high school, and other
disgruntled religious seekers gathered around these men, captured their
dreams, and helped set in motion what they believed was "God's great and
only holy work in this generation."

The population selected for recruitment by this dedicated band of
believers was college student at secular universities. Starting in the
Midwest and traveling from campus to campus in a rejuvenated school bus,
the group proselytized on campus, "hawking" freshmen in registration
lines, going door to door in the dorms ("cold turkey evangelism"), and
singing contemporary gospel songs in and around well-traveled areas.
Their efforts met with enough success to confirm their belief that "God
was with them." Intricately tied to this band's dedication was an
unflinching belief that the world was coming to an end within their
lifetimes, and that the millennium would be ushered in by Jesus Christ
in the middle of World War III (Armageddon). This fanatical urgency is
reflected in the non-denominational name they ascribed to themselves,
"The Blitz," or "Blitzers," named after Hitler's swift and surgically
precise attacks against the enemies of Nazism. Military terms soon
became a part of the sect's vocabulary, and comparisons to Nazi war
tactics gave way to strategies derived from Communist revolutionary
tracts as the movement gained strength.

Didn't McCotter and Clark start the Chruch with Bible studies in Viatnam? If the movement was first concieved in a life and death atmosphere, GCx views everything as a battle between them and the World.

[EverAStudent]

Didn't McCotter and Clark start the Chruch with Bible studies in Viatnam? If the movement was first concieved in a life and death atmosphere, GCx views everything as a battle between them and the World.

That would be very much overstating it.  McCotter and Clark likely did have Bible studies in the military, but they did not found churches while there.  Since they did not start churches, it would be overstating the case to say that is where and when the movement/denomination started.  The denomination did not start until the "Blitz" tour here in the US.

[MidnightRider]

So, they admire the way the The Third Reich took over Europe!

Cap,

Last weekend I watched my favorite football team blitz the opposing quarterback.

I seriously doubt that they meant it as a tribute to Hitler.   

[Captain Bible]

I know, I have a taste for melodrama.

It is the nature of the beast.

“On Christian soldiers! Fight, Fight, Fight.”  

“Advance the kingdom!!!!”  

“Brothers on the wall, hold fast.”  

That sounds like the time I was at a high school retreat with an all guys seminar.

The pastor of our church played a string of movie clips that captured “the essence of manhood.”

Every clip involved weapons or battle and actors like John Wayne, Mel Gibson, and Robert Duvall. Saying something about being tough, and sacrificing yourself for others.

Maybe it was all just a ways of saying, “If your gay get the h#ll out!”

Who knows?

[MidnightRider]

I know, I have a taste for melodrama.

no prob.

Every clip involved weapons or battle and actors like John Wayne, Mel Gibson, and Robert Duvall. Saying something about being tough, and sacrificing yourself for others.

John Wayne was mostly before my time, but I really liked The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance.

I have pretty much missed Mel's whole career. I carefully avoided seeing Braveheart. I do, however, highly recommend Chicken Run. Not sure if that is one of his "tough guy" roles.

I liked Robert Duvall, but my favorite movie with him was Tender Mercies.

I am trying to wrap my head around the idea of GCx leaders using movie clips to make a point. That was so unlike the leadership when I was there.

[Captain Bible]

_{Didn't McCotter and Clark start the Chruch with Bible studies in Viatnam? If the movement was first concieved in a life and death atmosphere, GCx views everything as a battle between them and the World.}

G. Did you ever hear a pastor say something like: "I know how the story ends, God wins!"?

"why make real friendships with the unsaved? after all Jesus will kill them with the sword of his mouth and they will burn in hell forever anyway."

It is drawing a clear line in the sand.

Do you want to be on God's side, (GCM) or the world's side(the devil)?

It is the prison of thinking that keeps people in "the battle" (the cult).

The leaders are generals who give commands, and are always exposing the "lies of the enemy"
that creep in to poison the flock.

you are a soldier who must fight to take prisoners for Christ.

Is this not the very purpose of the church?

[blonde]

Talking about violent films.  I never really liked Mel Gibson's 'Passion' film.  I think it was wrong to portray Christ in that manner.  It amounted to a snuff film from a Catholic point-of-view. 

[Captain Bible]

Agreed, it was just Jesus bleeding. I felt sick after it was done. I think they wanted to go for shock value more than anything.

Kind of like band of brothers, it makes you sick to watch it.

all and all we are just raising the tolerance level of violence.